What is uniquely Christian?

[LordShaithis]

Throwing a hissyfit is one step further along the desperation scale from rhetorical nitpicking. Hence we go from "God demanded suffering, not death!" as if it makes a difference, to "ZOMG UR A JERK!"

[Hedgehog's Roommate]

No, he just demands it. And apparently isn't picky about from whom he gets it. He could just push his godly "delete all sins" button WITHOUT waiting for them to tear Christ apart, but... nah... he wants to see some blood first. Apparently, he just can't be motivated toward "forgiveness" without seeing an innocent tortured.

Maybe you could, oh I don't know, READ the earlier posts since I adressed this there. I know some of them are a little long, but still.

So because he allows one (rather illogical) means by which to avoid the horrible torture (Hell) he has devised for everyone, suddenly he's a humanitarian?

My beliefs hold a slightly different veiw of hell than most. I beleive that hell is simply not being in His presence. Spending eternity away from our Father, and the glory that He has. In such a situation you have no one to blame but yourself.

Oh noes! Why don't you cry about it?

Of course, this thread could have actually been productive had anyone actually come up with something of substance. Rather than... say... repeating the old "God sacrificed himself to himself to overturn some rules he made himself AND IT ALL MAKES SENSE REALLY!" routine.

Do you hear any sobbing? Shouldn't because AFAIK no one here is crying. Now if you had paid attention to the thread many examples besides this one were given. However I saw what I thought was confusion on a point that seemed to be causing a lot of problems. So I thought I'd jump in to try and clear this up. Oh no I tried to help! Gasp the horror.

Also I'm not trying some "routine" I'm simply stating things from my point of veiw. Based on what I've seen and read, if you don't agree with my veiwpoint fine. Go about your business, leave me alone and I'll give you the same courtesy. What incenses me about this is it seems DW started this thread, not to see if he could learn something new, as a way to attack people. If this is not the case fine I'll retract my statements. If it is then like I said that strikes me as wrong on many levels.

[Morilore]

My beliefs hold a slightly different veiw of hell than most. I beleive that hell is simply not being in His presence. Spending eternity away from our Father, and the glory that He has. In such a situation you have no one to blame but yourself.

You... just... don't... get it! It doesn't matter what Hell is, if it involves suffering of any kind, and God is omnipotent, it isn't necessary. An omnipotent God would be able to rewrite the rules - including the rules that relate free will to love - on a whim. Why doesn't he?

Do you hear any sobbing? Shouldn't because AFAIK no one here is crying. Now if you had paid attention to the thread many examples besides this one were given. However I saw what I thought was confusion on a point that seemed to be causing a lot of problems. So I thought I'd jump in to try and clear this up. Oh no I tried to help! Gasp the horror.

You theatrically proclaimed that you were speechless at Darth Wong's "issues," and that it was "wrong on so many levels" to you. That makes you a stupid whore.

Also I'm not trying some "routine" I'm simply stating things from my point of veiw. Based on what I've seen and read, if you don't agree with my veiwpoint fine. Go about your business, leave me alone and I'll give you the same courtesy.

There is no such thing as "agreeing to disagree" here.

What incenses me about this is it seems DW started this thread, not to see if he could learn something new, as a way to attack people. If this is not the case fine I'll retract my statements. If it is then like I said that strikes me as wrong on many levels.

You fucking stupid whore, maybe he was wondering if someone like you actually had a logical argument for Christianity's exceptionalism. Instead we all got treated to bullshit.

[The Guid]

Now why can't the slate be wiped clean automatically? Why can't God just say "all bets are off" without the need for Jesus to suffer upon the cross? I think it might be interesting to look at this from the perspective of guilt & being held back from love.

Now if I have done something wrong to someone I am probably not going to be at peace with them - however much I think I am. If I, for example, stole from my mother or insulted her I would not feel better until I had somehow repaired the damage - I can not be at peace with her. I see Jesus' dieing on the cross as the way we can all make peace with God. Its almost not God's need - its ours, well mine since I don't believe that any atheist will neccessarily go to heaven (not in a bad way you understand - an atheist probably wouldn't like it - though there might be some conversions on deatbeds as people see the light if I am right).

And its not quite the same angry God demanding blood as we can often see it as if one believes in the divinity of Jesus. Jesus is God and God is Jesus - its a God who sacrfices a part of himself to redress the emotional balance, not anyone else.

[Darth Wong]

That's just it. God doesn't "get off" on suffering.

Then why does it placate his anger?

One person was allowed to suffer (a fate he chose to go through) so no one else would have to. You know needs of the many, and all that. If God really got off on suffering why allow a way to exist to not suffer?

He DIDN'T, moron. He refused to allow sin (even minor, insignificant sin like eating an apple) to pass without forcing someone to suffer. Hell, he didn't even care if the person suffering was responsible for the sin, so long as somebody suffered.

Your powers of nitpickery are great, I see.

Yes they are, it seems the only way to get a concept through to you.

Grow the fuck up, dipshit. Nitpicking means that you have no answer for the real point, you blithering idiot.

In short, you think that unimportant trivialities constitute valid points of uniqueness. And I think that's the truth: all religions do have some aspects of each other. But a lot of Christians seem to feel that theirs is special and constitutes an exception to this rule, hence this thread. If you can't see that blindingly obvious intent behind this thread, you do really need help.

WTF? If you created this whole thread just to say "RAR! chrrr1st1ins sux! LOL" then you have some serious issues to deal with.

No, I created it to say "Christians who think their religion is unique are full of shit", moron. It's not my fault you're too goddamned stupid and defensive to see that without someone pointing you to it and then explaining it again when you still don't get it.

I knew you didn't like christians, but to create a whole thread just so you can bag on them? Man I don't even know what to say. That is just so wrong on so many levels to me.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

[CaptJodan]

God told the Israelites to kill the people in Caanan before they moved into those areas. The reason for this was because the people of Caanan worshipped Baal. The sacrifices made to Baal were children thrown living into a fire. God didn't want His people to be tempted to follow the same path. He also told the Israelites why they needed to do this.

What is your point? I don't think this invalidates the fact that we have no evidence that God went to Caanan and told them to stop fucking around. The Israelites were his chosen people. He chose them over all others. Despite his "love" for all creatures and people of the Earth, he clearly had problems with some groups that he felt were worthy of mass slaughter WITHOUT EXPLAINATION.

Let's not forget the poor soul who came and was killed for bringing bad news to God.

What are you talking about? I have no idea where this is coming from.

Numbers: 14:36

So the men Moses had sent to explore the land, who returned and made the whole community grumble against him by spreading a bad report about it-- these men responsible for spreading the bad report about the land were struck down and died of a plague before the LORD.

http://www.creationtheory.org/BiblicalM ... ence.shtml

Complaining to God of any kind seems to be in that general area, also awarded death by God, of course.

I think this is the core of your next point, so I'm going to deal with this. As stated earlier this is all according to my particular form of Chistianity. Others might disagree. Humans are born to be tested to grow and develop and prove that we are capable of bettering ourselves. Also we were born to gain our "first estate" (a body) so that later we can be perfected and made immortal. Without all these things we would be unable to gain eternal life. Even Christ had to be born and gain a body, and he was perfect. So how much better than him are you?

This is another rule made up by God. Another hoop to jump through for no purpose. It's truly baffling to me that you can believe we NEED to do this with a God that is all powerful. We don't NEED a body. Why would we? Because God made the rules, yes. And God can change the rules.

As for proving ourselves, is that for God, or for us? Because God should already know whether we can or not, he's all knowing. God shouldn't need proof that we can better ourselves. He created us, he should know our capabilities. So I'm going to assume, maybe incorrectly, that you mean to suggest that we need proof that we can better ourselves.

If it's the latter, then I don't see the point. Again, humans could have been spared all sin entirely. He could have wiped sin from the galaxy long before. Some sects of Christianty believe that God is going to do just that once he comes down and the final battle is raged yadda yadda. Why not destroy it before this mess even started?

You're not. Adams fall simply allowed sin into the world, we chose to commit those sins.

You can't be serious. Do you actually see what you're suggesting here? When is the earliest we can start sinning as humans? That's right, when we're children. When we don't even have the understanding of a God, we can still be sinning our asses off because we don't have the cognitive abilities to choose otherwise! Thus, a baby who throws something at it's parents in defiance is sinning. Of course, it doesn't know any better, but by your logic, who cares, it CHOSE SIN! Burn in hell, little baby (or in your case, be seperated from God).

Since we have sinned something must happen to allow us to return to God. Nothing impure can abide in His presence so we must be washed clean of our sin. Hence the Atonement.

So sayth God. Another rule made up for him on the spot. Or are you suggesting there are physics beyond even his control? Not sure how much clearer I can make this. God either is all powerful, or he's not. He either created these rules, which means he can change them at will, or he didn't.

And he can forgive, if he chose to. Humans have the capacity to forgive without going through some convoluted process, or to bow down to the person you want to have forgiveness from. God apparently doesn't.

He has never changed the rules. The rules are and always will be the same.

I covered this once already. He did.

Without the capability of sin where is the growth ? The change? The test?

Good question. Where is it in Heaven? After sin is destroyed by God, what will be the test then? The growth, the change? Oh that's right, growth through knowledge...growth through change with God for eternity. There can be growth without sin. There can be the quest for knowledge without sin as well. Heaven itself is supposed to be some place where, FOR ETERINITY, you will never be bored, and there will always be something new to do.

Clearly we're supposed to be very content in Heaven without sin after this is all over. So clearly there is growth, change, and testing, OR we are restructured not to care about such things. Either way, it's a more ideal situation.

The war in heaven took place because that was exactly what Satan wanted. He wanted a world without choice. A world where you wouldn't have a choice in sin. Everyone would return, and such a world goes against the whole point of Gods plan.

And God, being the all knowing son-of-a-bitch he is, could see this coming. So stop Satan.

Has it ever occured to you that freedom of choice is exactly what is at stake here anyway? That, in fact, it is God who wants to take away the freedom of choice. God wants a specific group of people to spend eternity with him. Those people consist of individuals who worship him first and foremost, over their own family, friends etc. (thus, when God throws their child into Hell, they should.....rejoice I guess) The OT makes it clear that questioning God is really not a great idea. To CHOOSE to believe in something else (not necessary worship) is not a good idea. To CHOOSE to do simple things such as gather wood on the Sabbath (as Wong states, vitimless crime) is punishable by death, and thus is not much of a choice.

The freedom to choose is exactly what God wants to take away. Even for "sins" which hurt no one. It's within Gods power to allow everyone to join him. Whether it's Hitler or Jesus, he can pardon everyone. That would be the act of a merciful, loving, caring God who truly did love all on this Earth.

[CaptJodan]

Now if I have done something wrong to someone I am probably not going to be at peace with them - however much I think I am. If I, for example, stole from my mother or insulted her I would not feel better until I had somehow repaired the damage - I can not be at peace with her.

In order for this to work you have to assume that all humans feel guilt in some way by every wrong thing they do. For example, it is a sin to do work on the Sabbath. The SDA church worships on Sat, not Sun. I have never felt a wink of guilt about working on said day, even when religion was part of my life. It was just an odd rule. There are many examples of things in the Bible that might be a sin that I might do that I might not feel any guilt over.

There are also individauls who, for whatever reason, feel no remorse at all. People with certain pscyhological or physiological problems may have trouble even understanding what is and isn't a sin, and it's not necessarily their fault. They won't feel guilty about this, and thus won't feel the need for Jesus' sacrifice.

I see Jesus' dieing on the cross as the way we can all make peace with God. Its almost not God's need - its ours,

I guess for some people this works. But I think a great majority of people may not like the God in question, and have no reason to make peace with him. For example, I don't think the Jewish community feels a need to make peace with God via Jesus.