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nightmare wrote: Yes, but do they describe directly or indirectly how they function in any way?

Um, they're "backup" shields. Once you lose the first set of shield generators, the second set kick in to maintain protection. Its pretty straightforward. (In essence you get your shields "lasting" longer before failing. I don't see what needs to be explained more beyond that.

VT-16 wrote:

he means they're not going to "fight" them, as in try to destroy them. They were going to let the Death Star do that.

Just to avoid further confusion - Do you believe that only happened at the beginning of the battle, or kept up when the fleet dived into the Imperials as well? Because I want to hear this explanation about how the Imperial fleet "held back" when attacked outright.

Uh, they only "hold back" from outright obliterating them. That means going to cripple, incapacitate, box in, etc. But even shooting to incapacitate means knocking down shielding first (therein lies one of the main problems in executing the orders.)

I just can't comprehend how someone can hear the line "We only need to keep them from escaping" and not get it as "If they try to make a run for it, they're toast". Ever since I was a little kid, I always thought they would destroy the Rebels if they tried to escape, not "keep them in place so the DS II could make every single kill."

Except that as we see, they were FIRING on them, attacking them, even when they WEREN'T trying to escape (even the novel indicates this.) So why the fuck would they fire on the Rebels if they're not escaping?

Besides which, this completely ignores the fact that despite the use of the word "attack" they ARE in essence "attacking". So clearly in that context, attack means more than just "shooting at them', because they're doing that anyhow (even the Executor is firing on Rebel ships, for fuck's sake.)

Besides, even when I was a kid, I knew they had tractor beams, and I knew what tractor beams did. And I remember what an ISD did to the Tantive IV. And tried to do to the Falcon. Does it take that much effort to figure out what Piett meant given prior examples?

Edit: Moreover, you evidently forget the whole point of WHY the Death Star was used to wipe out the Rebel fleet, it was to enrage Luke and turn him to the Dark Side. Palpatine was goading him. And he would have no clear idea how long or how many ships it might take, so he would clearly want to draw out the battle as long as possible (and ensure the Imperial Fleet did not destroy most of them before then. After all, he can always change those orders later..)

Nor does he need to destroy "every single ship' with the Death STar alone; he merely needs most of them relatively intat for his purposes (IE not obliterated.) They could be disabled, ,crippled, tractored, shieldless, have big gaping holes shot in them, but as long s they were intact, they were of use,

Your proposition that the Imperial Navy's purpose is to cripple does not have any explicit evidence but merely a hypothesis am I correct?

As such, would the possibility that the Imperial Navy was to present a Hobson's choice to the Rebels be plausible, or are you going to stick to your guns?

Because frankly, if the Death Star was used to have target practice on the Rebel fleet, having Interdictors blockading the hyperspace lanes with suitable escorts would have more than sufficiently served the purpose and put the REbels in far more dire straits.

Why would the rebels assume that there would be no Fleet assets at the Deathstar? Especially, since the Emperor himself was there? Han seeing and not responding overly so to the Executor would seem to indicate that the rebels were either aware of, or expecting an Imperial Fleet presence at Endor....

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Because frankly, if the Death Star was used to have target practice on the Rebel fleet, having Interdictors blockading the hyperspace lanes with suitable escorts would have more than sufficiently served the purpose and put the REbels in far more dire straits.

Were you and me watching the same movie? It wasn't just target practice, it was meant to tempt Luke, no more no less.

Knife wrote:Why would the rebels assume that there would be no Fleet assets at the Deathstar? Especially, since the Emperor himself was there? Han seeing and not responding overly so to the Executor would seem to indicate that the rebels were either aware of, or expecting an Imperial Fleet presence at Endor....

They were, but not a fleet of that size or arrayed in that fashion (ie. coming at them from behind to trap them). It was spread throughout the galaxy in a vain effort to engage them

Han probably figured the entire Rebel fleet would be quite sufficient to create a perimeter around the Death Star II while the fighters attacked with just Executor and a few ISDs there, and would hold long enough that the Imperial fleet wouldn't be able to stop the fighter attack.

General Schatten wrote:

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Because frankly, if the Death Star was used to have target practice on the Rebel fleet, having Interdictors blockading the hyperspace lanes with suitable escorts would have more than sufficiently served the purpose and put the REbels in far more dire straits.

Were you and me watching the same movie? It wasn't just target practice, it was meant to tempt Luke, no more no less.

Yes it is indeed meant to tempt Luke. The whole exercise was meant to drive Luke to the edge of despair with the Rebels trapped between the Imperial Navy and the Death Star where the Rebels were either presented with a Hobson's choice of either engaging the Imperial Navy or get destroyed one by one by the Death Star.

What I object is that the Rebel fleet was simply disabled and then towed into position to be shot at by the Death Star which simply put, turns into target practice.

The one part of my 'hit and fade' scenario that confuses me is the presence of Mon Mothma et al on the attack fleet. I would hope she debarked and fled to a safe location before they jumped to Endor, as taking your leadership on such an extraordinarily dangerous gamble seems foolish.

Knife wrote:Why would the rebels assume that there would be no Fleet assets at the Deathstar? Especially, since the Emperor himself was there? Han seeing and not responding overly so to the Executor would seem to indicate that the rebels were either aware of, or expecting an Imperial Fleet presence at Endor....

The info was brought to them by Bothan spies, not on the local holonet. The rebels are assuming that the Empire doesn't know they are comming or that they know the Emperor is there or even that they know that there is a DSII. They don't know it's a trap.

The purpose of the trap isn't to get Luke. The Emperor doesn't even know Luke is on Endor until Vader tells him. For all the Emperor knows, Luke si still in hiding or training somewhere. Luke is a bonus. The trap is for the Rebel Alliance, whom Palpatine tricked, by adding himself to the pot, into putting all their eggs in one basket.

The Senate is gone, Alderan is gone. Basically the Rebel Alliance is the last bit of the Old Republic that needs to be taken care of.

Vympel wrote:

Knife wrote:Why would the rebels assume that there would be no Fleet assets at the Deathstar? Especially, since the Emperor himself was there? Han seeing and not responding overly so to the Executor would seem to indicate that the rebels were either aware of, or expecting an Imperial Fleet presence at Endor....

They were, but not a fleet of that size or arrayed in that fashion (ie. coming at them from behind to trap them). It was spread throughout the galaxy in a vain effort to engage them

Han probably figured the entire Rebel fleet would be quite sufficient to create a perimeter around the Death Star II while the fighters attacked with just Executor and a few ISDs there, and would hold long enough that the Imperial fleet wouldn't be able to stop the fighter attack.

I understand that the sudden apperence and/or tactic of the Imperial fleet was surprising, but that's tactical surprise, not strategic. What I'm saying is that at a strategic level, the rebels should not have been, nor do I think they were, surprised by the possibility of an Imperial Fleet (specifically the SSD) at Endor.

You can plan for any assest to be involved in a conflict, it doesn't mean that any creative use of said asset won't surprise you but it also means that you're ready for a conventional use of it.

Basically, the rebels might have indeed brought the (in their opinion) firepower along with them to deal with a projected Imperial force. The the Imperials caught them in a pincher and trapped them for the DS II to pick apart was a surprise, but that still doesn't mean that they didn't bring the 'boom' along to take on a SSD.

havokeff wrote:

Knife wrote:Why would the rebels assume that there would be no Fleet assets at the Deathstar? Especially, since the Emperor himself was there? Han seeing and not responding overly so to the Executor would seem to indicate that the rebels were either aware of, or expecting an Imperial Fleet presence at Endor....

The info was brought to them by Bothan spies, not on the local holonet. The rebels are assuming that the Empire doesn't know they are comming or that they know the Emperor is there or even that they know that there is a DSII. They don't know it's a trap.

The purpose of the trap isn't to get Luke. The Emperor doesn't even know Luke is on Endor until Vader tells him. For all the Emperor knows, Luke si still in hiding or training somewhere. Luke is a bonus. The trap is for the Rebel Alliance, whom Palpatine tricked, by adding himself to the pot, into putting all their eggs in one basket.

The Senate is gone, Alderan is gone. Basically the Rebel Alliance is the last bit of the Old Republic that needs to be taken care of.

The second two parts weren't directed at you. I just forgot to put in whatshisname.

Connor MacLeod wrote:

nightmare wrote: Yes, but do they describe directly or indirectly how they function in any way?

Um, they're "backup" shields. Once you lose the first set of shield generators, the second set kick in to maintain protection. Its pretty straightforward. (In essence you get your shields "lasting" longer before failing. I don't see what needs to be explained more beyond that.

Well, that was part of my point:

nightmare wrote:The only source that details backup shields in this matter is WEG."

As in, not the only source that mentions backup shields, but the only source that describes the mechanism.

havokeff wrote:

Knife wrote:Why would the rebels assume that there would be no Fleet assets at the Deathstar? Especially, since the Emperor himself was there? Han seeing and not responding overly so to the Executor would seem to indicate that the rebels were either aware of, or expecting an Imperial Fleet presence at Endor....

The info was brought to them by Bothan spies, not on the local holonet. The rebels are assuming that the Empire doesn't know they are comming or that they know the Emperor is there or even that they know that there is a DSII. They don't know it's a trap.

Nevertheless, why would the Alliance assume that the Empire would leave both their supreme leader and the half-constructed hulk of the most powerful weapon built since the formation of the Republic without even a perimeter fleet? It doesn't matter if they thought they were going to be expected or not; disregarding defense invites attack.

Noble Ire wrote:

havokeff wrote:

Knife wrote:Why would the rebels assume that there would be no Fleet assets at the Deathstar? Especially, since the Emperor himself was there? Han seeing and not responding overly so to the Executor would seem to indicate that the rebels were either aware of, or expecting an Imperial Fleet presence at Endor....

The info was brought to them by Bothan spies, not on the local holonet. The rebels are assuming that the Empire doesn't know they are comming or that they know the Emperor is there or even that they know that there is a DSII. They don't know it's a trap.

Nevertheless, why would the Alliance assume that the Empire would leave both their supreme leader and the half-constructed hulk of the most powerful weapon built since the formation of the Republic without even a perimeter fleet? It doesn't matter if they thought they were going to be expected or not; disregarding defense invites attack.

Mon Mothma say the the fleet is spread throughout the galaxy, perhaps that to was part of Palpatine's plan to lure the RA into a trap where they thought thy would be mostly unopposed. If the numbers for the Executor are known to the RA, they would need an entire fleet just to fight it.

I just looked at the stats for the Viscount and Executor in the preview again, and unless I'm mistaken they updated them to be more in line with what the ITW:OT states.

Viscount:
Weapon: Turbolasers (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8.); Fire Arc: 10 batteries front, 20 batteries right, 20 batteries left;
Weapon: Heavy turbolasers (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8.); Fire Arc: 10 batteries front, 15 batteries right, 15 batteries left, 10 batteries rear;
Weapon: Assault concussion missile tubes (200, 30 missiles each); Fire Arc: 100 front, 50 right, 50 left;
Weapon: Heavy ion cannons (300); Fire Arc: 10 batteries front, 20 batteries right, 20 batteries left, 10 batteries rear;
Weapon: Tractor beams (40); Fire Arc: 20 front, 10 right, 10 left;
Weapon: Point laser cannons (500, point defense); Fire Arc: 20 batteries front, 30 batteries left, 30 batteries right, 20 batteries rear;

Executor:
Weapon: Turbolasers (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8.); Fire Arc: 20 batteries front, 15 batteries right, 15 batteries left,
Weapon: Heavy turbolasers (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8.); Fire Arc: 20 batteries front, 10 batteries right, 10 batteries left, 10 batteries rear;
Weapon: Assault concussion missile tubes (250, 30 missiles each); Fire Arc: 10 front, 15 right, 15 left, 10 rear;
Weapon: Heavy ion cannons (250); Fire Arc: 20 batteries front, 10 batteries right, 10 batteries left, 10 batteries rear;
Weapon: Tractor beams (40); Fire Arc: 20 front, 10 right, 10 left;
Weapon: Point laser cannons (500, point defense); Fire Arc: 25 batteries front, 25 batteries left, 25 batteries right, 25 batteries rear;

So both have over 5,000 weapons including 4,000 TLs, 500 point defense lasers, and 40 tractor beams. A change for the better.

Damn, I really like with the way this article is being handled! Whether it's a the WOTC writer or editor, or some guy at LFL, whoever is in charge isn't afraid to go back fix any stupid numbers in the article (which was pretty cool in the first place). Unlike a certain someone who also writes for SW...

Yeah, it's awesome stuff!

So, technically, to how many ISDs is an SSD equivalent, gun-number wise?

i reckon that they are both worth at least 300 star destroyers if not more

Another nail in the coffin against the fools.

Now this is interesting, does that mean the turbolasers are in mountings of 8 barrels like the Imperator II?

My only dread is for the last previews, where the ISD and Home One will be profiled. I'm almost sure they will mention Imperator at least once, but what of the HO's stats? Oy vey. :P

I get 4,750 turbolaser, ion-cannons and point-defense-lasers for the Executor and according to the ITW:OT the ship has over 5,000.

Am I the only one, who thinks the number of pdcs to be a little too low?

If the heavy TLs are of the ISD-I-variant Executor should equal 166 ISDs, if they are of the smaller ISD-II-version 31.2. This doesn't account for the other 2,000 turbolasers.

Yea, I get 31,25 for the ISD-II Main Caliber Guns (those huge battleship-like batteries with 8-barrel HTLs). As for other (non-heavy) TLs, the Executor should also be worth at least a few dozen ISDs.

I'd say/hope they are of the ISD-I-variant otherwise the Executor would be weaker than the Mandator-Class.