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I would ask no less from you- It appears the fighter numbers I chose were too high. You responded by counting my fighters as being individually weak- which is what you should do.

My carrier shouldn't be better than your's because the number I chose for it's fighter load is too high.

Similarly, Sea Skimmer's dreadnought should not be considered better than everyone else's because he chose to give it an ungodly number of guns- I believe his single dreadnought has more weapons than my entire fleet.

Straha wrote:He (Seaskimmer) himself did say that the powers he gave were too much, and should be downgraded.

But that doesn't mean they're toothless. They are still the heaviest capship in the game. Combined with the EMP missles Thirdfain shouldn't have a fleet. But he's just being a crybaby because he got beat.

But that doesn't mean they're toothless. They are still the heaviest capship in the game. Combined with the EMP missles Thirdfain shouldn't have a fleet. But he's just being a crybaby because he got beat.

Two Floater dreadnoughts and support groups are not toothless either.,

I am being a "crybaby" because you are declaring that two missile salvos and a single fighter strike are enough to demolish a significantly larger fleet.

Straha wrote:He got beaten whenhe had numbers, guns, and tonnage on his side?

Merely tonnage and what should have be parity in guns. The problem is he got beat by better tech and two ships he should have reasoned out were with the Asgard Fleet.

Stormbringer wrote:

Straha wrote:He (Seaskimmer) himself did say that the powers he gave were too much, and should be downgraded.

But that doesn't mean they're toothless. They are still the heaviest capship in the game. Combined with the EMP missles Thirdfain shouldn't have a fleet. But he's just being a crybaby because he got beat.

His ships are designed to work in EMP heavy areas, making that weapon mostly useless against him, like his nuke shuttles were worthless in the fight for Africa. The way I see it is that he lost some ships, but you lost over all (as in most ships). To deny this would be most crybabyish, no?

Thirdfain wrote:Two Floater dreadnoughts and support groups are not toothless either.,

I am being a "crybaby" because you are declaring that two missile salvos and a single fighter strike are enough to demolish a significantly larger fleet.

No, I said you fleet would be effectively crippled because A) the fighter did some damage. B) the missles exploded the anti-matter your ships and fighters are packed with.

I can't help it you won't play by the rules when you lose.

Straha wrote:His ships are designed to work in EMP heavy areas, making that weapon mostly useless against him, like his nuke shuttles were worthless in the fight for Africa. The way I see it is that he lost some ships, but you lost over all (as in most ships). To deny this would be most crybabyish, no?

Actually, the idea is to create a weapon that is designed to overcome that. Just because you armor against a lesser level (and declare it after the fact no less) doesn't mean you should win automatically against a greater weapon.

Merely tonnage and what should have be parity in guns. The problem is he got beat by better tech and two ships he should have reasoned out were with the Asgard Fleet.

Friend, in this STGOD, there IS no better tech. We are all on the same level. You seem to interpret "No Shields" as "Defenseless." Floater vessels are armored well, constructed sturdily, and built in a modular, heavily-redudant fashion which makes them quite resilient- as I said early on "Floater vessels have been snapped in half in combat, and had the two seperate sections continue firing."

Your EMP weapon idea is a joke- my ships routinely deal with the EMP produced by multiple massive cannon which use electromagnetic fields to propel projectiles at .6 C! they are hardened and armored in every conceivable way from this sort of attack.

As for two ships, a mere two extra antifighter gunships are not enough to stop the combined fighter strikes of SIX carriers!

And what about the DOZEN anticapital ship warships I sent after your two carriers and their escorts?

Hell, and to continue this:

Fleets are spread out in formations thousands of kilometers across. The idea of an area of effect weapon which can hit all the ships in such an area!

It's refuckingdiculous.

Additionally, you neglect point defense entirely- even if you did have magical one hit kill missiles, they would not all hit- many would be shot down, fooled by decoys, or scrambled by jamming.

Thirdfain wrote:Friend, in this STGOD, there IS no better tech. We are all on the same level. You seem to interpret "No Shields" as "Defenseless." Floater vessels are armored well, constructed sturdily, and built in a modular, heavily-redudant fashion which makes them quite resilient- as I said early on "Floater vessels have been snapped in half in combat, and had the two seperate sections continue firing."

Not defenless. But you try to cram a cap ship into a cruiser frame and defense will be weak. And there can be superior tech you dumbass. Besides, the mod of this whole thing okayed them.

Thirdfain wrote:Your EMP weapon idea is a joke- my ships routinely deal with the EMP produced by multiple massive cannon which use electromagnetic fields to propel projectiles at .6 C! they are hardened and armored in every conceivable way from this sort of attack.

So two carrier worth of F-14s could take down six carriers worth of Wildcats? Your fighters weren't even out when you got hit in the first wave for one thing. Second of all, you have a lot fighters but their qualatively inferior. Quit being a whiny bitch about it.

Thirdfain wrote:As for two ships, a mere two extra antifighter gunships are not enough to stop the combined fighter strikes of SIX carriers!

And what about the DOZEN anticapital ship warships I sent after your two carriers and their escorts?

They didn't stop them. They just inflicted heavy losses. You chose to intepret that as wiped out.

And those warships got killed because they're the STGOD eqivalent of the Bloody Ships of Jutland. Over gunned and over engined but with little to no protection and a volitale payload.

Thirdfain wrote: As for two ships, a mere two extra antifighter gunships are not enough to stop the combined fighter strikes of SIX carriers!

Well... if the fighters are as weak as they must be to be able to cram all of them in, and with a light cruiser that rather large for a light cruiser, plus the range advantage, your fighters got mauled.

So two carrier worth of F-14s could take down six carriers worth of Wildcats? Your fighters weren't even out when you got hit in the first wave for one thing. Second of all, you have a lot fighters but their qualatively inferior. Quit being a whiny bitch about it.

A better analogy: Two carriers worth of E-wings versus six carriers worth of TIE fighters. You seem to have glossed over the entire reason you (rightly so) declared my fighters inferior- I had declared too many of them per carrier, and you were evening the odds. Now, you are taking it a step furthur- you are claiming that one carrier of your fighters is worth MORE than one carrier of my fighters. That, my friend, is Bullshit.

As for them not being out when the first wave hit, you seem to be unable to decide- your carriers were so close to my incoming capital ships that my own flight crews had no time to launch...
Yet your carriers are outside my weapons range.

You have it both ways, my friend- and you just can't have it both ways.

Not defenless. But you try to cram a cap ship into a cruiser frame and defense will be weak. And there can be superior tech you dumbass. Besides, the mod of this whole thing okayed them.

I am sure the mod okayed them. Never the less, they are a foolish weapon idea, of little use to you.

And those warships got killed because they're the STGOD eqivalent of the Bloody Ships of Jutland. Over gunned and over engined but with little to no protection and a volitale payload.

Gunned for anti-capital ship work, and overengined for their size. Well defended, too, with potent ECM and point defense. They mount far fewer guns than similar escorts, but the guns they do mount are larger.

Plenty of protection- they keep on fighting even after taking heavy damage, and are designed with superior ECM (something I have claimed since the early days of the STOGD, which you keep refuting.)

They are simply not suspected to last long in an engagement with heavy enemy capital ships. That is why they charge in large packs like they did against your mere four warships (none of which, mind you, was disigned for anitcapship work.) That way, they take the target out in the first few volleys, minimizing the enemy's ability to counterattack.

The situation gave me every advantage- A DOZEN fast attack ships, loaded for anticapship work, against two ANTIFIGHTER shipt and tow CARRIERS without fighters!

Yet you magically declare my fleet destroyed.

Please, your getting bullshit all over my nice new 805's.[/quote]

Look, this is why we need to restart this, let's just take the STGOD, end it right now and seed it forward say 1500 years. We can redeclare our ships, and teritories with ne limitations and different tech levels, and a reworked background history to boot. Good?

Well... if the fighters are as weak as they must be to be able to cram all of them in, and with a light cruiser that rather large for a light cruiser, plus the range advantage, your fighters got mauled.

Quantity IS quality. My fighters are not useless, just small- think TIE fighters. they are certainly destroyable by a single antiship missile, but you know what? I think that mounting so many weapons missile tubes on your vessel would severely limit the size of the missiles, reducing them to small reserves of maneuvering fuel and limited guidance equipment. It appears that the tact of your antifighter craft is to fill space with large numbers of small, inferior missiles.

Dangerous, sure, and capable of mauling a fighter swarm, but enough to singlehandedly halt the massed fighter strike of six carriers?

Nope.

Thirdfain wrote:A better analogy: Two carriers worth of E-wings versus six carriers worth of TIE fighters. You seem to have glossed over the entire reason you (rightly so) declared my fighters inferior- I had declared too many of them per carrier, and you were evening the odds. Now, you are taking it a step furthur- you are claiming that one carrier of your fighters is worth MORE than one carrier of my fighters. That, my friend, is Bullshit.

As for them not being out when the first wave hit, you seem to be unable to decide- your carriers were so close to my incoming capital ships that my own flight crews had no time to launch...
Yet your carriers are outside my weapons range.

You do realize that at .8c you'd have a matter of moments even if they were out of weapons range.

Thirdfain wrote:I am sure the mod okayed them. Never the less, they are a foolish weapon idea, of little use to you.

They'd work on your ships at that's what they were for.

Thirdfain wrote:Gunned for anti-capital ship work, and overengined for their size. Well defended, too, with potent ECM and point defense. They mount far fewer guns than similar escorts, but the guns they do mount are larger.

In other words. Uberwank-ships. Way too powerful, way too protected and way too manuverable for their size.

Thirdfain wrote:Plenty of protection- they keep on fighting even after taking heavy damage, and are designed with superior ECM (something I have claimed since the early days of the STOGD, which you keep refuting.)

You want to make it so know one can hit you even though my forces would have comparble ECM to your own.

Thirdfain wrote:They are simply not suspected to last long in an engagement with heavy enemy capital ships. That is why they charge in large packs like they did against your mere four warships (none of which, mind you, was disigned for anitcapship work.) That way, they take the target out in the first few volleys, minimizing the enemy's ability to counterattack.

The situation gave me every advantage- A DOZEN fast attack ships, loaded for anticapship work, against two ANTIFIGHTER shipt and tow CARRIERS without fighters!

Yet you magically declare my fleet destroyed.

My carriers do have limited anti-cap ship weaponary. And in this case used it to good effect. Just because you have a design flaw in your ships doesn't mean others are barred from exploiting that flaw.

Thirdfain wrote:

Well... if the fighters are as weak as they must be to be able to cram all of them in, and with a light cruiser that rather large for a light cruiser, plus the range advantage, your fighters got mauled.

Quantity IS quality. My fighters are not useless, just small- think TIE fighters. they are certainly destroyable by a single antiship missile, but you know what? I think that mounting so many weapons missile tubes on your vessel would severely limit the size of the missiles, reducing them to small reserves of maneuvering fuel and limited guidance equipment. It appears that the tact of your antifighter craft is to fill space with large numbers of small, inferior missiles.

Small, definitely compared to a anti-capship missile. sufficient to take out one of your fighters? Definitely. Designed to also be capable to doing long range anti-missile work? yes. And it's rather hard for a fighter to dodge something coming at it at greater than .99c. And you still have no clue as to how large the Jakarta class is, so you can't say anything at all about the performance of said missiles.

Thirdfain wrote:Quantity IS quality. My fighters are not useless, just small- think TIE fighters. they are certainly destroyable by a single antiship missile, but you know what? I think that mounting so many weapons missile tubes on your vessel would severely limit the size of the missiles, reducing them to small reserves of maneuvering fuel and limited guidance equipment. It appears that the tact of your antifighter craft is to fill space with large numbers of small, inferior missiles.

Dangerous, sure, and capable of mauling a fighter swarm, but enough to singlehandedly halt the massed fighter strike of six carriers?

Nope.

Never claimed it would. Be given my fighter picked off plenty of yours and the ships themselves would take out a lot of them. Some fighters would get through (and had you not started the crybaby act some would have).

Small, definitely compared to a anti-capship missile. sufficient to take out one of your fighters? Definitely. Designed to also be capable to doing long range anti-missile work? yes. And it's rather hard for a fighter to dodge something coming at it at greater than .99c. And you still have no clue as to how large the Jakarta class is, so you can't say anything at all about the performance of said missiles.

you have declared it a Light Cruiser. That signifies a smaller escort vessel.

How do you get the missiles to .99 c? are they railgun launched? do they have magical hyperdrives strapped to them?

My carriers do have limited anti-cap ship weaponary. And in this case used it to good effect. Just because you have a design flaw in your ships doesn't mean others are barred from exploiting that flaw.

I still don't see this design flaw. You assume my vessels aren't protected from EMPs? Perhaps my military computers aren't protected from information warfare attacks. And maybe my soldiers aren't protected from the elements by clothing. And since I never specifically said that my ships had airtight hulls, maybe we can end this STGOD now as my ship's crews explosively decompress!

You want to make it so know one can hit you even though my forces would have comparble ECM to your own.

No. I want to make it so no one can destroy an entire cruiser squadron with one volley. One or two ships down? sure! The whole force down? No way.

In other words. Uberwank-ships. Way too powerful, way too protected and way too manuverable for their size.

No. Merely, like your ships, harder to hit with certain attacks. Your vessels ignore anything besides high-propogation p-beams and lasers. My vessels do no such thing- they are merely hard to hit with beam weapons at long range (weapons like Kokander long-range particle beams are of limited use) easy to destroy with beam weapons at short range (weapons like your Grasers in a tight melee) and of average protection from missile attacks (excellent ECM means more hits, no shields mean hits which land are nastier.)

Thirdfain wrote:you have declared it a Light Cruiser. That signifies a smaller escort vessel.

How do you get the missiles to .99 c? are they railgun launched? do they have magical hyperdrives strapped to them?

They get to .99c the same way capship missiles get to .9c. They use a magical AMR device to reduce their apparent mass. And again, small is relative.

Stormbringer wrote:

Straha wrote:He (Seaskimmer) himself did say that the powers he gave were too much, and should be downgraded.

But that doesn't mean they're toothless. They are still the heaviest capship in the game. Combined with the EMP missles Thirdfain shouldn't have a fleet. But he's just being a crybaby because he got beat.

No they're not. He declared 20 of them. Firepower scales down to compare to super-capitals that are declared to serve the same function but are declared in fewer number, eg Minmatar Will-to-Power Juggernaughts which are horrendously expensive to deploy and there are only 4 of them would be assumed to be more powerful then the Black Forests which Sea Skimmer had 20 of them (in a single engagement I might add) and which he deployed at the drop of a hat)

And on the low end of the scale, the Obiquitus "Cruisers" of mine are more merchant then anything else.

I mean how many fleets would use just two basic designs and then have 5+ main varients (It's an SE IV/SFB kinda thing)

I was just trying to be fair.

Spyder wrote: No they're not. He declared 20 of them. Firepower scales down to compare to super-capitals that are declared to serve the same function but are declared in fewer number, eg Minmatar Will-to-Power Juggernaughts which are horrendously expensive to deploy and there are only 4 of them would be assumed to be more powerful then the Black Forests which Sea Skimmer had 20 of them (in a single engagement I might add) and which he deployed at the drop of a hat)

I sent 15 of them, and "drop of a hat" is utter bullshit since I made several posts about my fleet massing and refueling about 35 light years from Earth. The ships firepower is undefined, as I've pointed out several times to help you arguing babies, before the STGOD started I said ignore the declared shield strengths and weapons yields because hard number where impossible to balance. This is one reason why I dropped out; many of you are quite incapable of reading key information.

Straha wrote:He (Seaskimmer) himself did say that the powers he gave were too much, and should be downgraded.

I stated that the missile and gun yields should be considered highly competitive to whatever standard other agreed to, this was after I got tried of having to change them eight times. The number of actual emplacements wasn’t in question.

Thirdfain wrote:
Your EMP weapon idea is a joke- my ships routinely deal with the EMP produced by multiple massive cannon which use electromagnetic fields to propel projectiles at .6 C! they are hardened and armored in every conceivable way from this sort of attack.

Any form of passive EMP protection has an upper limit. The RAF considered its Tornadoes to be well protected against EMP from nuclear bombs, yet when a pair flew to close to a radio transmission tower they still ended up being fried, both crashed.

The need for exposed antennas and such and the lack of anything to ground to severely limits what you can do passively

Phoenix Shipyards:
A new carrier design had been completed. It was to be designated a CVE, escort carrier. The first in it class had now been built. Its name: Invincible. Beside it, 3 of its sisters lay, almost completed. Holding a thousand fighters, it was a match for nearly any ship of its size it came across. Also nearby was the first Unbreakable class CV. This design would carry over ten thousand fighters.

The Black Forest battle group, reveling in their successful battle, was none the less in a sticky situation. They had escaped the Floaters and given them a bloody nose for it. But the net was closing in.

The captain, his face a mask of concentration, decided the only way he could.

"Open a comm channel to the Empress Jessica. Tell her... we surrender."

* * *

The fateful transmission went out and immediately the two fleets moved towards each other. The Asgard ships moving to escort their prodigal brethren clear. As the did end of the long drama was in sight.