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Byzantium would rather have scientific firsts than most of the above.

Yeah, we would love to build the first Space Shuttle, based on the Buran template. Among the other things I plan to do is launch a few deep space probes.

Nice. The Buran really comes handy when you build a number of them though it can deploy a large variety of cool payloads.

And Wilkens, the Crimson Star Republic clearly ratified the BIOCOM. Include me please

Stas Bush wrote:Nice. The Buran really comes handy when you build a number of them though it can deploy a large variety of cool payloads.

And Wilkens, the Crimson Star Republic clearly ratified the BIOCOM. Include me please

We co-build them? There's only so much of a budget I have to allocate.

Shroomania's perfectly willing to co-fund and co-build them with you guys, and to make Comona an altarnate/secondary/parallel launchpad to Jerusalem. We're looking into that San Dorado space plane thing as well...

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Shroomania's perfectly willing to co-fund and co-build them with you guys, and to make Comona an altarnate/secondary/parallel launchpad to Jerusalem. We're looking into that San Dorado space plane thing as well...

We are looking into it as well, but not for civilian use.

Buran? What for? Disposable capsules are far cheaper, and the Buran will never come close to cheap unless we make quantum advances in material science which will allow the ship to not have half its skin rebuilt between re-entries.

Two-stage-to-orbit winged boosters...now that's something to consider. Essentially, take a huge ramjet airplane with a rocket on its back, have it fly really really high really really fast and release the rocket. This essentially means the first stage is reuseable and uses far less fuel than traditional rockets (no need to carry liquid oxygen).

I want in!

On the non-civilian purpose Buran, I mean.


Hey, you know what, Premier (Prime Minister) Shroom will probably visit Stanislav Factory and other key FASTA sites to congratulate and thank the crew for making this greatness all possible! Hey, we're all in it together, all our monies - whether they be Shroomanian Dollars, PeZookian Pounds, Crimson Rubles, or Constantinople Credits - and all our peoples! From the factory worker in Stanislav and his patriotic labors, to Common Carter Connoway and his silly Rock Ironbeef postcards.

Of course, the KGB and the Crimsons won't like foreign cameras peeking on their factory. But I think the Crimsons will not be adverse to the publicity, if they keep the sensitive stuff out of sight.

I'll be totally cool.

PeZook wrote:Buran? What for? Disposable capsules are far cheaper, and the Buran will never come close to cheap unless we make quantum advances in material science which will allow the ship to not have half its skin rebuilt between re-entries.

Because Buran has more uses than just hauling cargo into space. Also, if you are going to establish large space stations in orbit, you are going to need something like a shuttle. I have other uses for it (as Stas would have guessed), but I won't say anything.

Two-stage-to-orbit winged boosters...now that's something to consider. Essentially, take a huge ramjet airplane with a rocket on its back, have it fly really really high really really fast and release the rocket. This essentially means the first stage is reuseable and uses far less fuel than traditional rockets (no need to carry liquid oxygen).

I.. think you have it reversed. It's rocket propelling the plane into orbit, not the other way round. On the cards really is to design spacecraft like the Soyuz that Russia uses to resupply the ISS now.

I want in on your schemes! You can totally absatively trust me.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I want in on your schemes! You can totally absatively trust me.

You will know soon enough. Things like this won't materialise until 10months down the road, assuming the game lasts that long, which I suspect, that the game would die sometime.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Because Buran has more uses than just hauling cargo into space. Also, if you are going to establish large space stations in orbit, you are going to need something like a shuttle.

Why? Why a shuttle, rather than simply a large passenger capsule? Hell, you could make a capsule reuseable, too, and wouldn't have to carry wings and control surfaces into orbit.

I.. think you have it reversed. It's rocket propelling the plane into orbit, not the other way round. On the cards really is to design spacecraft like the Soyuz that Russia uses to resupply the ISS now.

No, that's exactly it: you use the plane to ferry the rocket high up, and launch a more classical rocket into space with its payload, because the airplane can use air breathing engines and lift forces in order to save a shitload of fuel (and thus mass).

PeZook wrote:Why? Why a shuttle, rather than simply a large passenger capsule? Hell, you could make a capsule reuseable, too, and wouldn't have to carry wings and control surfaces into orbit.

Because a shuttle has a nice big arm called the remote manipulator system that no capsule can possibly carry. That is one of the big point of having a shuttle; that big mechanical arm is something no other aircraft has.

In any case, I and Stas will probably co-fund the project, as intended from the start of the game. I talked to Stas about Space planes at the beginning of the game and he kinda agreed although I will probably take charge of it.

No, that's exactly it: you use the plane to ferry the rocket high up, and launch a more classical rocket into space with its payload, because the airplane can use air breathing engines and lift forces in order to save a shitload of fuel (and thus mass).

Are you sure that will work? As it is, no air breathing engine has been designed to haul something like 10 to 20 tonnes around to acquire the speed that you want.

Why a shuttle, rather than simply a large passenger capsule? Hell, you could make a capsule reuseable, too, and wouldn't have to carry wings and control surfaces into orbit.

Like this?

The advantage of a Shuttle/Buran derived space capsule is the ability to return into orbit (a) and throw shit into orbit while incoming at ridiculous speeds (b).

An orbital-only capsule would be limited in options when considering returning payloads to ground, which is important if said payloads are humans.

Stas Bush wrote:

That's one of the conceptual ideas for the Buran, wasn't it? I remember seeing that picture somewhere.

Yeah, that's the "Buran as a military hauler" idea, with a large space station docking Burans that have jettisoned wings and tail, and only when attack is imminent, the station detaches the four "battle modules" which then fly at orbital speeds towards the enemy nation and bomb it into oblivion.

Stas Bush wrote:Yeah, that's the "Buran as a military hauler" idea, with a large space station docking Burans that have jettisoned wings and tail, and only when attack is imminent, the station detaches the four "battle modules" which then fly at orbital speeds towards the enemy nation and bomb it into oblivion.

Goddamn it mangs. You have impressed me.

I want in on this.

DarthShady wrote:

Stas Bush wrote:Yeah, that's the "Buran as a military hauler" idea, with a large space station docking Burans that have jettisoned wings and tail, and only when attack is imminent, the station detaches the four "battle modules" which then fly at orbital speeds towards the enemy nation and bomb it into oblivion.

Goddamn it mangs. You have impressed me.

I want in on this.

Well you are a SNC member...

Which reminds me, does every one agree to the proposals and are we just going to pass it? Not to mention, we have an SNC meeting to run!

Why yes, that's exactly what I had in mind when I wrote "a large passenger capsule"

And yeah, I agree to the economic proposals in full.

PeZook wrote:Why yes, that's exactly what I had in mind when I wrote "a large passenger capsule"

And yeah, I agree to the economic proposals in full.

Then be more specific. The whole idea for the passenger capsule/Buran was to make it possible to not just haul up cargo but service the cargo in orbit.

And of course, I was thinking of lobbing nukes from it back when Shep and Skimmer were still playing. Still, there's no harm in developing that weapon delivery system....

I'll do the posts later. I need to sleep.

If you ditch the spaceplane configuration, the Buran space capsule is no different from any other, except for the shape. What's there to be specific about?

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Well you are a SNC member...

Which reminds me, does every one agree to the proposals and are we just going to pass it? Not to mention, we have an SNC meeting to run!

Excellent. Please inform me of what I can do to contribute.

And Yes, agreed on the proposals.

This talk about orbiters has me wondering; I'm building a Dyna-Soar analog myself (expect to launch it for the first time sometime next game-year), but can anyone tell me how difficult it would be for someone to lob an ASAT missile up there and intercept it (and how difficult would it be for my orbiter to evade such a missile)?

I'd love to mount a THEL in the nosecone of the thing (for extra Reagan Points) but I doubt that's going to fit anytime soon .

PeZook wrote:And damn, I knew Shroom would like Chim Chim

I wonder if PM Shroom likes Chim Chim a little too much if you know what I mean.

SiegeTank
Hey, if you're not gonna send those SSGNs to Coilerburg maybe I can scoop them up? Depends on how far along they are and the specs and whatnot.

RogueIce wrote:Hey, if you're not gonna send those SSGNs to Coilerburg maybe I can scoop them up? Depends on how far along they are and the specs and whatnot.

The first of the Vigilant class subs should be done somewhere mid-november, but if Coilerburg isn't getting theirs (which is an 'if' at this stage) the ones currently being built will just go to Baerne, San Dorado, and the other nations that have ordered them. Though you'd be more than welcome to order a few if you like 'em .

DOES ANYONE WANT SOME CHEEP TANKS?