SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VII

[Czechmate]

But it is rather mean though.

It would be better if you get placed in 'Midget' together with Czech though. For company's sake.

Har har.

[K. A. Pital]

There's no doubt people would be screaming about WMDs now. The biowar could have eclipsed the use of WMDs back then, but now the use of nuclear weapons would undoubtely be a hotpoint.

Not that we can do anything about that (how exactly does one stop Lonestar from using nukes in a war? ), but the press would definetely scream.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

There's no doubt people would be screaming about WMDs now. The biowar could have eclipsed the use of WMDs back then, but now the use of nuclear weapons would undoubtely be a hotpoint.

Not that we can do anything about that (how exactly does one stop Lonestar from using nukes in a war? ), but the press would definetely scream.

And so sayeth his Holiness The Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.

[Shroom Man 777]

That was short, but pretty damn good!

ARMAGEDDON! NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST! THE GREAT ARCH-HERETIC HIMSELF! SATAAAANNNN!!!!!!

The Shepland Patriarch will probably want to go molest some altar boys though.

[Karmic Knight]

Not that we can do anything about that (how exactly does one stop Lonestar from using nukes in a war? :lol: ), but the press would definetely scream.

That's what I assumed when I did my propaganda story, that most news sources would be screaming about Shepland use of WMDs.

edit:
So Czech, how can you afford 3 carriers?

[CmdrWilkens]

Question: how does one use the InfoBox Template? Having trouble implementing it.

Best advice I can give you is to grab the source data from any country on wikipedia.org (which is what I did) and then edit the code to reflect your nation.

[Czechmate]

Not that we can do anything about that (how exactly does one stop Lonestar from using nukes in a war? ), but the press would definetely scream.

That's what I assumed when I did my propaganda story, that most news sources would be screaming about Shepland use of WMDs.

edit:
So Czech, how can you afford 3 carriers?

They're Kuznetsovs and I don't have the disorganized post-Soviet Russian military funding program? Now, if they were Ulyanovsks...

[Shroom Man 777]

Czech, you're a midget nation.

[Czechmate]

Westchester operated a Midway and two Wake Islands -before rejoining the Empire- and nobody made a peep.

Oh, and for the love of god, this nitpicking has to stop here. With the vastly overgrown OOBs of nearly every other nation on the planet (Didn't Shep and Skimmer start that little trend?), none of you really have a leg to stand on when it comes to the "WHY DO YOU HAVE THIS" thing. Glass houses, people.

[Shroom Man 777]

Yeah, but you suck.

That's it, guys. I'm leaving for a week. I'm delegating all of Shroomania's whacky hijinks to SiegeTank and he can go continue the SHROOM SOJOURN into Shinra to meet President Rufus (Siege ).

Keep it real, CATO cool cats!

[Czechmate]

Yeah, but you suck.

That's it, guys. I'm leaving for a week. I'm delegating all of Shroomania's whacky hijinks to SiegeTank and he can go continue the SHROOM SOJOURN into Shinra to meet President Rufus (Siege ).

Keep it real, CATO cool cats!

You're disrupting the fragile OOC armistice, you Shroomanian fool!

EDIT: PS you suck moar lol.

EDIT2: Changed to -two- Kuznetsovs in service and two Vikramadityas in the Reserve Fleet.

[K. A. Pital]

And how many Third World nations exactly have Kuznetzov class carriers? They are vessels with 70,000 tons of displacement and ~200 m long. Think about that. You know what the Third World nations usually have?Something like this Thai shit or this Indian upgraded Centaur, heheh. As far as I know, no large nation decomissioned Kuznetzovs, which would be the only way for you to get it, since you have no shipyards capable of handling ships of that size. Hell, no nation has even decomissioned Kiev class carriers (UCSR still holds all on 4 active duty).

Even large nations like India and China don't have large indigenous carriers - only recently have they got the steel, the shipyards, construction yards and all the necessary materials to assemble such large machines.

And here you come and say a Third World nation of yours has two 30-40 k ton carriers and two 70 ton carriers? When most IRL have 10-20 ton carriers? I can't see that even remotely plausible.

[Czechmate]

Four things.

1) Estovakia is high second world; the per-capita income is approximately 34,000 dollars. The bar for First World is 35k per capita. To answer your question, the budget is somewhere between a duchy and a principality.
2) I wasn't aware the point of playing this game was to constrain yourself to bullshit levels of power and budget rather than to write interesting story arcs and, I don't know, enjoy yourself.
3) Estovakia is an island nation with a large navy and the correspondingly large naval budget fraction. Who are you to say that a country with a strong seafaring tradition doesn't have a dock capable of constructing a Kuznetsov?
4) I am not justifying any more of this to anyone. None of you are mods. Play your own countries and stop bothering me about mine.

[Karmic Knight]

Four things.

1) Estovakia is high second world; the per-capita income is approximately 34,000 dollars. The bar for First World is 35k per capita. To answer your question, the budget is somewhere between a duchy and a principality.

Fuck No, and Fuck you. You will have a duchy's GDP, 350-400 Billion, like everyone else, follow the rules.

2) I wasn't aware the point of playing this game was to constrain yourself to bullshit levels of power and budget rather than to write interesting story arcs and, I don't know, enjoy yourself.

Ok, then I will write up my purchasing/creation of 100 billion nuclear weapons and hold the world hostage, and when people bitch I'll trot out 'Hey! This is about the story!'

The game was supposed to be more realistic, with more constraints on the players.

3) Estovakia is an island nation with a large navy and the correspondingly large naval budget fraction. Who are you to say that a country with a strong seafaring tradition doesn't have a dock capable of constructing a Kuznetsov?

That you are a duchy, and thus you couldn't afford those facilities.

4) I am not justifying any more of this to anyone. None of you are mods. Play your own countries and stop bothering me about mine.

We are the other players, which means that we have to deal with your random bullshit, like this.

[CmdrWilkens]

Four things.

1) Estovakia is high second world; the per-capita income is approximately 34,000 dollars. The bar for First World is 35k per capita. To answer your question, the budget is somewhere between a duchy and a principality.
2) I wasn't aware the point of playing this game was to constrain yourself to bullshit levels of power and budget rather than to write interesting story arcs and, I don't know, enjoy yourself.
3) Estovakia is an island nation with a large navy and the correspondingly large naval budget fraction. Who are you to say that a country with a strong seafaring tradition doesn't have a dock capable of constructing a Kuznetsov?
4) I am not justifying any more of this to anyone. None of you are mods. Play your own countries and stop bothering me about mine.

None of us are mods but oddly enough I concur with Stas that your nation does not have the domestic industry required to support that large of a naval infrastructure. Just because they are seocnd world in GDP per capita doesn't mean that you have the total resources neccessarry to support vessels that large via indigenous construction.

I've laid out my general objections to folks building most carriers because there simply isn't enough economy of scale outside of the MESS and now CATO to support the continued operation of yards capable of that degree of manufacture and experties. For a vessel of that class you would need to overpay per unit to cover the fact that your order size is small or you would have to contract out to other nations which would still overcharge you for obtaining the vessel even before one gets in to the difficulties and expense of maintaining it. Your GDP simply wouldn't allow for it.

So yes none of us are mods and story arc is important but make your shit realistic or "accidents" could happen.

[Steve]

Wait, 70K-Ton carriers? I only gave myself 57.5K-ton carriers at the start of the game and just now I'm completing my first 67Kton CVN, and I'm a full-fledged Kingdom with a GDP of $1.25+ trillion (originally below that, but I calculated ten years of population growth from '05 to '15 and adjusted GDP with a small decrease in per capita earnings).

I mean, I suppose Estovakia could have dedicated itself years ago to spending a shitload of money on some Kuznetsov-equivalents, perhaps in a manner similar to how I justified being capable of spending the R&D cash for two distinct 5th Gen fighter designs on top of participation in the MESS JSF project (way back when the game started I made the arrangement with Rogue that Cascadia saved the navalized F-35 variant, called the MSF-15 in Cascadian service, when it joined the JSF project), namely that I had such a small air force for my national size when the game started (thus realistically the RCAF accepted meager force levels in exchange for being capable of fielding two 5th Gen designs starting in the mid-10s).

In universe the Estovakian carrier project could even be one reason why in the late 70s and early 80s Cascadia decided to deal with the expense of restarting operation of fixed-wing carriers (eventually becoming the three Defiant-class CVAs I currently field). Estovakian interest in North Veleria could be a potential threat to Cascadian interests for instance.

However, Czech, I think we'd all feel a bit better if you give yourself a tradeoff somewhere. Weak army perhaps? Remember that Shep sacrificed his Navy save his subs to have his HEUG Air Force.

[Ryan Thunder]

Four things.

1) Estovakia is high second world; the per-capita income is approximately 34,000 dollars. The bar for First World is 35k per capita. To answer your question, the budget is somewhere between a duchy and a principality.
2) I wasn't aware the point of playing this game was to constrain yourself to bullshit levels of power and budget rather than to write interesting story arcs and, I don't know, enjoy yourself.
3) Estovakia is an island nation with a large navy and the correspondingly large naval budget fraction. Who are you to say that a country with a strong seafaring tradition doesn't have a dock capable of constructing a Kuznetsov?
4) I am not justifying any more of this to anyone. None of you are mods. Play your own countries and stop bothering me about mine.

Uh, no, you jackass. You're gonna play by the fucking rules, just like I did, just like the rest of us did, or you're not gonna play at all.

[Siege]

To be fair, he is an island nation so it's hardly bizarre to assume he has a minuscule army and a sizable navy/marine corps. That's what I would have if I were an island nation in the North Pacific. Still, two Kuznetsov-class ships is a bit much for a Duchy--maybe two Charles de Gaulle-class carriers would be more acceptable?

[Ryan Thunder]

To be fair, he is an island nation so it's hardly bizarre to assume he has a minuscule army and a sizable navy/marine corps. That's what I would have if I were an island nation in the North Pacific. Still, two Kuznetsov-class ships is a bit much for a Duchy--maybe two Charles de Gaulle-class carriers would be more acceptable?

Kind of like how Miratia is a massive nation (for my status) so its bizarre to assume that I have a relatively miniscule army?

Dude, I had to deal with it too. My population density is lower than friggin CANADA for crying out loud, if I've got the scale right.

He's actually got it easier than me in that he can focus on his navy and air force and still have them be somewhat effective. My military could be overrun by a friggin division from nearly anywhere else.

[Steve]

You could have fielded yourself a decent-sized army for a nation of your population and income, but you chose not to.

After all, if you claim your northern section is mostly jungle and stuff, then it improves the de facto density of your population and the heartland of Miratia is easier to defend, especially if your northern border is secure due to the vast expanse of wilderness.

[Ryan Thunder]

You could have fielded yourself a decent-sized army for a nation of your population and income, but you chose not to.

Because I didn't realize I was allowed to?

I used the points system because nobody told me it was geared for little islands, and I hadn't done the research to know any better myself.

And when I did the research, it just seemed to be unreasonable to retcon in a ground army that was at least triple its present size.

After all, if you claim your northern section is mostly jungle and stuff, then it improves the de facto density of your population and the heartland of Miratia is easier to defend, especially if your northern border is secure due to the vast expanse of wilderness.

Yes. At the same time its still a lot of land to defend. I didn't realize at the time that my friends would be north of me and my "enemies" to the south for the most part. So the jungle isn't much more than a stumbling block for reinforcements.

[Karmic Knight]

Because I didn't realize I was allowed to? :?

We would have said something, like I did with Czech, if anything you did seemed really out of the norm, knowledge for the next sucker, player, I guess.

Yes. At the same time its still a lot of land to defend. I didn't realize at the time that my friends would be north of me and my "enemies" to the south for the most part. So the jungle isn't much more than a stumbling block for reinforcements.

I'm honoured, I'm an enemy with a forced defence? Awesome.

[Ryan Thunder]

Because I didn't realize I was allowed to?

We would have said something, like I did with Czech, if anything you did seemed really out of the norm, knowledge for the next sucker, player, I guess.

Yes. At the same time its still a lot of land to defend. I didn't realize at the time that my friends would be north of me and my "enemies" to the south for the most part. So the jungle isn't much more than a stumbling block for reinforcements.

I'm honoured, I'm an enemy with a forced defence? Awesome.

I didn't name you specifically, but you are a MESS puppet, remember.

[Karmic Knight]

I didn't name you specifically, but you are a MESS puppet, remember. :P

1/3 Democratic Socialist Mess Puppet, 1/3 Nationalist Mess Puppet, 1/3 Cult of Personality Psychopath... -ist.

That is the power of the Tri-Monarchy.

[Siege]

Dude, I had to deal with it too. My population density is lower than friggin CANADA for crying out loud, if I've got the scale right.

Well yes, but to be frankly honest your country's population is hilariously low; you're a duchy like San Dorado, but you have what, 8 million citizens? Versus San Dorado's 24 million inhabitants? It's one thing to sacrifice population density for a First World per capita GDP, but hell--you're pushing it pretty far .

That is the power of the Tri-Monarchy.

Vineyard politics give me headaches...