Did anyone actually like the ending to nBSG?

[Havok]

Eat a dick. You stated that nBSG jumped the shark because of a resurrection, in a series that is chocked full of religion, myth and... wait for it... RESURRECTION. That is not jumping the shark.

[Samuel]

I think he is pissed of that it went from religious beliefs are important to their beliefs are true. Just because it has religions and myth doesn't mean you get literal divine intervention.

[Havok]

That's fine, but that is not jumping the shark... a term coined from when the Fucking Fonz jumped a fucking shark on fucking water skies in fucking swim trunks and his leather fucking jacket*, i.e. an act so ridiculous and over the top on out of character for the show that it is literally unbelievable and a sure sign that the show is a waste of space.


*The Fonz totally nailed it too.

[Kane Starkiller]

The VERY FIRST EPISODE has the entire fleet taking a LEAP OF FAITH and trying to find a MYTHOLOGICAL planet from their BIBLE, but a resurrection three seasons later jumps the shark? What?

A show that portrays a character that believes in God is not the same as actually portraying a God. Yes some of the characters made a leap of faith one which I, and many others, assumed will have a logical resolution. Not a cheap ass copout that takes the advantage of the fact that the vast majority of the audience is already brainwashed into accepting the existence and unknowability of a Cristian God. So the explanation the lazy ass writers give is God (you know the one you were taughtt about in Sunday school ) did it.

[Havok]

I must have missed it... when did the show portray God?

[Kane Starkiller]

As soon as Starbuck was reincarnated. Although at that point it still could've been explained through some kind of exotic technology. But in the end it was God and it was "portrayed" as much as Christian God is: unknowable, "has a plan", don't question him just accept everything that happened happened for a reason etc. etc.

[Vympel]

The thing about nBSG was that it was actually more unbelievable - to me anyway - for Starbuck to be reincarnated the way she came back as opposed to the mere fact that she did come back. After all, Cylon resurrection had been a fact since the miniseries.

It's her Pristine Viper Mk II From The Angels that was, to me, the most pain-inducing "how the fuck are they possibly going to explain this to me" they could've possibly come up with. They never even tried to explain how the fuck that could possibly happen.

I mean fuck, she's in her Viper who knows how many thousands of light years from "real" Earth, we see the Viper explode - with no possibility of survival - then in the nebula she pops up from nowhere - who knows how far from the Maelstrom planet, never mind real Earth - in a factory fresh Viper Mk II that for some reason is the only craft in the entire Colonial arsenal that can pick up a transponder signal from her wrecked Viper on "real" Earth with her body in it - even though we saw that fucking Viper explode into a million fucking pieces.

It. Makes. Fuck. All. Sense.

As for nBSG's God, he's quite a character:-

Let’s look at some of the things in Gog’s plan

* Billions of years earlier, breeding two planetfuls of life with genetically identical humans.
* It probably inspired the sacred scrolls.
* It knew of the war on Earth-1 and sent the angels to the final five. It must have put the song into Anders’ head, including an opening line which, when translated to numbers, will be jump coordinates for use 2,000 years in the future from the singularity to the Moon.
* It modified the Temple of Hopes to be the Temple of Five, a chamber where the Final Five could be seen when the star explodes.
* It presumably timed the arrival of the Final Five to the first Cylon war.
* If behind the monotheism, it’s also behind the rise of the Cylons on Caprica and what personalities were uploaded into them.
* The placing of Tigh and Tyrol on Galactica, and of Foster and Roslin there at the start of the war.
* It put the song with Earth’s coordinates into the head of Starbuck’s father, and various compulsions into her brain, such as the mandala.
* It was probably behind the destruction of the colonies. And the survival of the Pegasus, and of course the Galactica.
* It manipulated Baltar in all sorts of strange ways, causing him to act strangely, sometimes helping the Cylon cause, sometimes the human. A rewatch is necessary to get a list of all the things H6 manipulated Baltar to do.
* It probably put in Shelley Godfrey to cause Baltar to be suspected and then cleared.
* It made sure Baltar would keep his Cylon detector results secret. (When Boomer is figured, H6 scares him into keeping it quiet.)
* It arranged for a nuke for Gina, and for Baltar’s election, and thus for the halting of the tribes on New Caprica
* It probably arranged the jump glitch which found New Caprica, and the Cylon detection of Gina’s nuke.
* It arranged for the Cylons to recapture Hera, sending a message to an Oracle.
* It probably arranged the circumstances where Ellen would die and be recreated.
* It talks regularly to the Cylon ship hybrids and the first hybrid to manipulate their activities.
* Likewise it appears to talk to oracles from time to time.
* It contaminated the food to force the fleet to the Algae planet.
* It arranged the meeting of the forces at the Algae Planet. Did Three’s activation go with Gog’s plan or against it?
* It exploded the star at the Algae planet, or timed the meeting perfectly to match it. Now that’s interventionist!
* It gave compulsions to Starbuck to kill herself, which she did.
* It then planted Starbuck’s dead body and Viper on Earth
* It then created a brand new Viper and put Starbuck in it, over Earth
* It probably directed the Cylons to the Ionian Nebula, as it planted clues to send the fleet there.
* It probably disabled the fleet at the Ionian Nebula, to force the battle, recognition of Anders and Cylon civil war.
* It gave various visions to Roslin and Sharon and Hera, as well as the regular ones to Baltar and Six.
* It put the music into the heads of the final five at the Ionian Nebula, and then let them remember they were Cylons.
* It teleported angel-Starbuck to the Ionian Nebula, with compulsions in her head about finding Earth.
* It probably lead Leoben to Starbuck, and Starbuck to the region of space with Leoben.
* During the standoff, it compelled the Final Five to check out the Viper. It made the Viper show a tracking signal for the crashed original Viper on Earth
* On Earth, it made the Final Five regain a few more memories.
* From there, a long series of events were necessary to create the Opera House scene including:
o Sam getting shot, regaining memories and then becoming like a Hybrid who can be hooked into Galactica on the balcony.
o Boomer’s return of Ellen and capture of Hera
o Raid on the Colony
o Various tactical elements of raid on colony leading to standoff in the CIC.
o Circumstances where Starbuck has to program an escape jump
* The abandonment of technology, and interbreeding
* The complete loss of Colonial culture and knowledge.
* All of modern Earth history.
* Further repeats of the cycle, until one day some civilization breaks it after enough repetitions. That too is part of god’s plan.
* Once our Earth arises with dominant monotheism, it no longer likes to be called god.

[Havok]

The thing about nBSG was that it was actually more unbelievable - to me anyway - for Starbuck to be reincarnated the way she came back as opposed to the mere fact that she did come back. After all, Cylon resurrection had been a fact since the miniseries.

It's her Pristine Viper Mk II From The Angels that was, to me, the most pain-inducing "how the fuck are they possibly going to explain this to me" they could've possibly come up with. They never even tried to explain how the fuck that could possibly happen.

I mean fuck, she's in her Viper who knows how many thousands of light years from "real" Earth, we see the Viper explode - with no possibility of survival - then in the nebula she pops up from nowhere - who knows how far from the Maelstrom planet, never mind real Earth - in a factory fresh Viper Mk II that for some reason is the only craft in the entire Colonial arsenal that can pick up a transponder signal from her wrecked Viper on "real" Earth with her body in it - even though we saw that fucking Viper explode into a million fucking pieces.

It. Makes. Fuck. All. Sense.

Not so much that there was a new Viper (a trivial task to make one) but yeah, the old Viper on old Earth was annoying. I chalk it up to dramatic license though. I mean, if you just showed her Viper taking some damage and crashing, you lose the sense of the mystery and surprise... I guess.
I would have been happier if they had just not had her vanish on Earth 2. Then you would still have the mystery, but it wouldn't seem quite so diviny, my task here is finished nonsense.

As for nBSG's God, he's quite a character:-

Let’s look at some of the things in Gog’s plan

* Billions of years earlier, breeding two planetfuls of life with genetically identical humans.
* It probably inspired the sacred scrolls.
* It knew of the war on Earth-1 and sent the angels to the final five. It must have put the song into Anders’ head, including an opening line which, when translated to numbers, will be jump coordinates for use 2,000 years in the future from the singularity to the Moon.
* It modified the Temple of Hopes to be the Temple of Five, a chamber where the Final Five could be seen when the star explodes.
* It presumably timed the arrival of the Final Five to the first Cylon war.
* If behind the monotheism, it’s also behind the rise of the Cylons on Caprica and what personalities were uploaded into them.
* The placing of Tigh and Tyrol on Galactica, and of Foster and Roslin there at the start of the war.
* It put the song with Earth’s coordinates into the head of Starbuck’s father, and various compulsions into her brain, such as the mandala.
* It was probably behind the destruction of the colonies. And the survival of the Pegasus, and of course the Galactica.
* It manipulated Baltar in all sorts of strange ways, causing him to act strangely, sometimes helping the Cylon cause, sometimes the human. A rewatch is necessary to get a list of all the things H6 manipulated Baltar to do.
* It probably put in Shelley Godfrey to cause Baltar to be suspected and then cleared.
* It made sure Baltar would keep his Cylon detector results secret. (When Boomer is figured, H6 scares him into keeping it quiet.)
* It arranged for a nuke for Gina, and for Baltar’s election, and thus for the halting of the tribes on New Caprica
* It probably arranged the jump glitch which found New Caprica, and the Cylon detection of Gina’s nuke.
* It arranged for the Cylons to recapture Hera, sending a message to an Oracle.
* It probably arranged the circumstances where Ellen would die and be recreated.
* It talks regularly to the Cylon ship hybrids and the first hybrid to manipulate their activities.
* Likewise it appears to talk to oracles from time to time.
* It contaminated the food to force the fleet to the Algae planet.
* It arranged the meeting of the forces at the Algae Planet. Did Three’s activation go with Gog’s plan or against it?
* It exploded the star at the Algae planet, or timed the meeting perfectly to match it. Now that’s interventionist!
* It gave compulsions to Starbuck to kill herself, which she did.
* It then planted Starbuck’s dead body and Viper on Earth
* It then created a brand new Viper and put Starbuck in it, over Earth
* It probably directed the Cylons to the Ionian Nebula, as it planted clues to send the fleet there.
* It probably disabled the fleet at the Ionian Nebula, to force the battle, recognition of Anders and Cylon civil war.
* It gave various visions to Roslin and Sharon and Hera, as well as the regular ones to Baltar and Six.
* It put the music into the heads of the final five at the Ionian Nebula, and then let them remember they were Cylons.
* It teleported angel-Starbuck to the Ionian Nebula, with compulsions in her head about finding Earth.
* It probably lead Leoben to Starbuck, and Starbuck to the region of space with Leoben.
* During the standoff, it compelled the Final Five to check out the Viper. It made the Viper show a tracking signal for the crashed original Viper on Earth
* On Earth, it made the Final Five regain a few more memories.
* From there, a long series of events were necessary to create the Opera House scene including:
o Sam getting shot, regaining memories and then becoming like a Hybrid who can be hooked into Galactica on the balcony.
o Boomer’s return of Ellen and capture of Hera
o Raid on the Colony
o Various tactical elements of raid on colony leading to standoff in the CIC.
o Circumstances where Starbuck has to program an escape jump
* The abandonment of technology, and interbreeding
* The complete loss of Colonial culture and knowledge.
* All of modern Earth history.
* Further repeats of the cycle, until one day some civilization breaks it after enough repetitions. That too is part of god’s plan.
* Once our Earth arises with dominant monotheism, it no longer likes to be called god.

Heh. God is a dick. Par for the course.

[Vympel]

Not so much that there was a new Viper (a trivial task to make one) but yeah, the old Viper on old Earth was annoying. I chalk it up to dramatic license though. I mean, if you just showed her Viper taking some damage and crashing, you lose the sense of the mystery and surprise... I guess.
I would have been happier if they had just not had her vanish on Earth 2. Then you would still have the mystery, but it wouldn't seem quite so diviny, my task here is finished nonsense.

I would've been more amenable to what happened if the destruction of her Viper hadn't been so total - if we saw it break apart amidst an explosion, that would've been somewhat more believable.

Another thing that always bothered me was Baltar's complicity in the murder of thousands of people at the end of Season 2. I'm almost convinced the writers just plain forgot about that.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The whole "Gog leading them by the nose" bit really got annoying for me. Starbuck's death adn resurrection wasn't so bad, but I agree the many was terrible. Blow up her ship, make a new one, crash it on Earth with her burnt carcass, make ANOTHER new one and send it to the fleet, in such a place as only Apollo notices it on his DRADIS. I mean, wtf?

Also, the whole "we're Cylons in disguise" pissed me off, especially as the other Cylons knew nothing of them apart from Cavil. What about the spare bodies they had to have in storage for Resurrection? We know that a spare Ellen kicking about.

Show went fucked up cuckoo brain by end of season 2. Goddamn New Caprica crap

[Anguirus]

Another thing that always bothered me was Baltar's complicity in the murder of thousands of people at the end of Season 2. I'm almost convinced the writers just plain forgot about that.

Ditto. About the only thing it does is beef up the list of his failures that he atones for, because apart from that and his obvious sin of thinking with his dick and giving an apparent human some inside info, he doesn't really do anything THAT bad. We mostly know what a prick he is due to spending so much time in his head.

But yeah, it was a bit of a waste that his connections to Demand Peace never haunted him. On the other hand Demand Peace ITSELF was a bit of a waste, and a concept that, it used at all, might actually have made more sense in later seasons.

[PeZook]

Bah. The entire thing with the nuke was contrived like hell.

Why didn't anybody search the giant suitcase the prisoner was carrying with him when they let him go? For fuck's sake...

[aieeegrunt]

nBSG officially flew off the reals as far as naturalistic science fiction went at the end of Season 3 - specifically the moment Starbuck appeared in her Angelic Viper. In most of Season 4 they left this issue alone which provided for a respite, and then of course it came back full force in the last few episodes and resolved absolutely fuck all.

I feel your pain. I thought her death was both an excellent episode and really the natural end of her character arc. I also thought it was a ballsy move because how often is a central main character offed in a way that flows perfectly with the arc of the show?

Then we get a big fat cowardly reset button, more mystical bullshit and a huge dangling thread. The only good thing about her coming back was the sequence with her dad and the piano, and they sort of made the character less of an asshole by showing she actually loved Sam in her kind of fucked up way.

I'm curious about this. I'm usually very anti-resurrection, but Starbuck's death episode left a lot more questions than answers. From the perspective of the other characters, she just went nuts and offed herself for no reason. What does the show gain by leaving Starbuck dead after Maelstrom?

Actually I'd say her death was hardly a shock to the other characters; she'd clearly been mentally and emotionally breaking down for some time. Why do you think Apollo started flying her wing? What exactly did Starbuck have left to live for? Sam has finally had enough and left her. She can't have Apollo, who's gone back to his wife. The only thing she has left, as Apollo so succinctly put it was her image as a "steely eyed viper jock", and she was about to lose that due to PTSD induced hallucinations. Apollo refused to ground her because he knew it would end her, and he says as much to Admiral Adama when he orders him to do just that. Instead he flies her wing hoping that she'll pull it back together.

Nobody in CIC looked all that surprised when she simply gave up and lawn darted into the hard deck. What's her final transimission? "It's OK. You have to let me go. I'm not afraid anymore, they are waiting for me'.

You know what that is? Closure. What does the show gain? No reset button effect. Also no huge dangling plot hole about what the hell Starbuck is.

[Anguirus]

We'll have to agree to disagree about how effectively her death was foreshadowed and how shocked the characters were. Regardless, that kills off Starbuck's destiny arc and burns all further significance of the visions she was having at the time of her death. They aren't urging her to let go of live because life sucks, they are exhorting her to fulfill her destiny, so the whole thing is a pointless shaggy dog story unless it somehow gets the fleet closer to Earth.

[Setzer]

I have to say that while I don't like the way the ending turned out, I can understand why people would like it. If it doesn't fit from a logical viewpoint, I simply can't reconcile myself to it, but from a thematic standpoint I can see its merits.

[Stofsk]

I would've been more amenable to what happened if the destruction of her Viper hadn't been so total - if we saw it break apart amidst an explosion, that would've been somewhat more believable.

Yeah. I remember watching the finale for season 3 and going 'Holy shit, I wonder how they're going to explain that one!' Then, well, two years later when I finally got a chance to see season four... yeah, no explanation at all. Except 'lol she must be a Cylon' - which admittedly, isn't so far-fetched, since the Cylons actually have demonstrated resurrection 'technology'. Maybe I was in the camp Uraniun described, since I thought there would be a plausible or even semi-plausible explanation for it. I'd take a super-AI that's basically a god. I'd even take super-AI transhuman Cylons being revealed as the Final Five, with Kara being the fifth and final member.

But no, 'lol god a wizard god did it'. Hence why season four = toilet.

Another thing that always bothered me was Baltar's complicity in the murder of thousands of people at the end of Season 2. I'm almost convinced the writers just plain forgot about that.

'Almost' convinced?

[Vympel]

'Almost' convinced?

I figure it must have come up in discussions. Surely. I think ... maybe ...

But no, 'lol god a wizard god did it'. Hence why season four = toilet.

I liked the Cylon alliance / Mutiny arc. Otherwise - just too much wangst.

[Uraniun235]

Maybe I was in the camp Uraniun described, since I thought there would be a plausible or even semi-plausible explanation for it. I'd take a super-AI that's basically a god. I'd even take super-AI transhuman Cylons being revealed as the Final Five, with Kara being the fifth and final member.

But no, 'lol god a wizard god did it'. Hence why season four = toilet.

Well, that's not quite the same. If they'd actually shown a super-AI directing things and revealing some of that super-AI's motivations, that would be completely different and quite a bit more acceptable. What I scoff at is twofold; that people think substituting "god" with some other super-powerful* and inscrutable force is substantially different, and that some people couldn't help but rush to insert their own favorite sci-fi concepts.


*Alternately, 'a being with undefined power', to appease anyone who feels the need to run out a couple of paragraphs insisting that the supar-AI would of course have limits to its power.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

In a word, no- I can't believe that they actually listened to Apollo's staggeringly stupid idea to ditch what little tech they had left- did they not know that by not learning from history, humanity was destined to repeat it?

And there was no explanation as to Starbuck's appearance after her ship crashed and her remains were found inside it.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I would've been more amenable to what happened if the destruction of her Viper hadn't been so total - if we saw it break apart amidst an explosion, that would've been somewhat more believable.

Yeah. I remember watching the finale for season 3 and going 'Holy shit, I wonder how they're going to explain that one!' Then, well, two years later when I finally got a chance to see season four... yeah, no explanation at all. Except 'lol she must be a Cylon' - which admittedly, isn't so far-fetched, since the Cylons actually have demonstrated resurrection 'technology'. Maybe I was in the camp Uraniun described, since I thought there would be a plausible or even semi-plausible explanation for it. I'd take a super-AI that's basically a god. I'd even take super-AI transhuman Cylons being revealed as the Final Five, with Kara being the fifth and final member.

I am of the same mind here.. If they had instead left what happened in some way in doubt. Had a 'bright flash' some weird lights, maybe a little explosion, or the Viper 'beginning' to break up, you had more room to work with.
At the start of Season 4 when we see here back and we get the "Ive been to Earth" line, my first thought was 'Wormhole' which wouldn't at all be farfetched. it would have been a far more plausible explanation for what happened especially if you had things more ambiguous at the end of season 3.

But once again what we get simply shows the Writers by the end of Season 3 were making it up as they went along with no thoughts on how to tie things together other then "Oh shit we hit the end of the show and nothings explained.. I know! GOD DID IT!"

[Havok]

Really, the only thing that bugs me about the show is the time line established. The timeframes are too short between Holocaust/exodus for human memory to forget, let alone fucking A.I., and then repeat the mistakes so quickly.

[Themightytom]

But once again what we get simply shows the Writers by the end of Season 3 were making it up as they went along with no thoughts on how to tie things together other then "Oh shit we hit the end of the show and nothings explained.. I know! GOD DID IT!"

Actually we're shown something more like "We're going to end the show. God did it, and Fuck you all."

[Kuroji]

But once again what we get simply shows the Writers by the end of Season 3 were making it up as they went along with no thoughts on how to tie things together other then "Oh shit we hit the end of the show and nothings explained.. I know! GOD DID IT!"

Actually we're shown something more like "We're going to end the show. God did it, and Fuck you all."

Quite honestly that's how I'm looking at it too. It is a damned shame, but this is the most contrived way they could have ended the series. Up until that last hour or so, everything was just fine. They had things they could have used that hour to explain away, and they kept saying they were going to explain everything. Instead they write nearly a dozen deus ex machinas into the script, and when they find out that they don't have enough time, they pad it out with utterly irrelevant flashbacks. Oh no, big moral quandry, do I date a former student who might have a romantic interest in me? Do I take a job with the eeevil corporations? Irrelevant because we already know the answer to these pointless questions and the show was supposed to be about the people and what happens when they band together to survive.

Completely leaving aside the fact that they initially said they wouldn't pull any Trek-like bullshit, and in the end this tops most of the Trek bullshit I've ever seen.

[aieeegrunt]

I'm not sure if this is better or worse than the way Soprano's ended, they both pissed me off to similar extents.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I maintain my opinion that the show derailed utterly after season two.

One thing that has just occurred to me. When they landed on the blasted/scorched/nukified/trashed Earth, why didn't anyone check the constellations to see if they matched the ones in the Tomb of Athena?

Because those constallations were the ones we see, from OUR earth, the real one. So, that Tomb of Athena pointed us to the real Earth not the Cylon one. Why didn't anyone think of this? Especially as they were going on Scripture for it anyway and the scriptures said something like "and the thirteenth tribe looked into the Heavens, and they saw their twelve brothers staring back at them." So when Adams said "this isn't Earth" HE COULD HAVE CHECKED. WITH HIS BARE EYES!

Goddamn writers threw their own history out the fucking window