StarDestroyer.Net BBS

bilateralrope wrote:

TOSDOC wrote:I remember right after I purchased my business, sitting down for the first time with my thankfully excellent accountant who's first days' piece of excellent advice included "Pay your employees!"

I wonder how many people not paying their employees it took for your accountant to think that was necessary.

It's probably more of an afterthought. Kinda like when you get a paycheck and you pay all your bills and spend a little on yourself and then remember...."Oh yeah...the mortgage. Shit."

Eh, not so much - after all, your mortgage doesn't have legs to walk after you yelling "HEY, WHERE'S MY MONEY MOTHERFUCKER?"

I suspect a lot of the time it's a matter of not having the money to pay for everything... but at that point you have to seriously ask yourself if it's time to liquidate. Of course, there's also a certain amount of con artist and scamming. Another group is illegal aliens, who are very unlikely to go to the authorities. Apparently among that group either partial payment or no payment is pretty common.

You know, I think the one good lesson the British really could learn from US labour law is making non-payment a criminal matter; in England you'd be stuck with civil action and hoping the debt collectors could nab her before she skipped town.

Zaune wrote:You know, I think the one good lesson the British really could learn from US labour law is making non-payment a criminal matter; in England you'd be stuck with civil action and hoping the debt collectors could nab her before she skipped town.

And yes debtors prisons, those bastions of freedom and democracy.

Theft of labor is still theft.

In this country, stealing is a crime.

Tanasinn wrote:Theft of labor is still theft.

In this country, stealing is a crime.

Which is different from non-payment. Theft of labor is a crime

Mr Bean wrote:And yes debtors prisons, those bastions of freedom and democracy.

I'm not suggesting that employers failing to pay the wages of their staff should be subjected to what's effectively legalised kidnap for ransom, merely that there should be consequences beyond a bad credit rating.

Mr Bean wrote:

Tanasinn wrote:Theft of labor is still theft.

In this country, stealing is a crime.

Which is different from non-payment. Theft of labor is a crime

Actually... in the US non-payment of wages is, in fact, legally defined as "theft of labor".

Broomstick wrote:

Mr Bean wrote:

Tanasinn wrote:Theft of labor is still theft.

In this country, stealing is a crime.

Which is different from non-payment. Theft of labor is a crime

Actually... in the US non-payment of wages is, in fact, legally defined as "theft of labor".

You misunderstand me, I'm referring to non payment period not hiring someone and failing to pay them. The more traditional I got fired now I can't make payment "X". The old tradition is to toss someone in prison if they can't pay.

Business owners by their nature are under a different set of rules.

bilateralrope wrote:

TOSDOC wrote:I remember right after I purchased my business, sitting down for the first time with my thankfully excellent accountant who's first days' piece of excellent advice included "Pay your employees!"

I wonder how many people not paying their employees it took for your accountant to think that was necessary.

Around half of all new companies fail in the first 5 years. And when a business runs out of money the owners have to stop paying bills. They can't stop paying the government taxes or the banks or their business will be closed instantly. They have to pay some vendors to get material to continue work. And that's when employers start not paying wages to delay the bankruptcy in hope that something will come along. Somewhat understandable, because these guys usually invested everything at that point and it's hard to give up the tiny chance to repair it. But it just makes everything worse.
And there's evil pumpkin harpies of course.
Here it is a criminal offence to declare bankruptcy too late. I think that is partly to protect company owners from themselves and forcing them to make a cut.

For some inexplicable reason the Great Pumpkin Harpy decided to make a double payment this month !?! Not that I'm complaining, not at all. If she wants to double up on payments I'm all for it.

So she's still paying you? That's good to hear.

Yes! Especially with on being partly employed at this point.

Is interest still continuing to accrue? That would provide a rational explanation for stepping up the repayment schedule.

Yes, interest continues to accrue. It is actually in her interest to pay it off as rapidly as possible.

Sounds like she either got a windfall (IRS refund? Heh...) and is being smart about it, or (based on the rest of this thread) is gearing up for some kind of, "I paid you for two months as a good faith gesture so cut me some slack indefinitely!" plea.

Raw Shark wrote:Sounds like she either got a windfall (IRS refund? Heh...) and is being smart about it, or (based on the rest of this thread) is gearing up for some kind of, "I paid you for two months as a good faith gesture so cut me some slack indefinitely!" plea.

Or conned someone else into helping her. Not sure how that would work, but you never know.

Ralin wrote:

Raw Shark wrote:Sounds like she either got a windfall (IRS refund? Heh...) and is being smart about it, or (based on the rest of this thread) is gearing up for some kind of, "I paid you for two months as a good faith gesture so cut me some slack indefinitely!" plea.

Or conned someone else into helping her. Not sure how that would work, but you never know.

She might be able to pull a "Evil bitch who used to work for me tricked the judge into making me pay more than I owed her, now I'm almost on the street with my children..." sob story.

Quick update:

- I never got a payment for June. Will e-mail the lawyer

- Store Manager and I are now both working for the same employer. We're at different stores - the store I'm at already employer Store Manager's long-time significant other and they won't allow two family members to work at the same store, so Store Manager is at a neighboring location. Almost ironically, where the first shoe store was located.

And... another update.

Apparently the Pumpkin Harpy has been faithfully paying every month to the Porter County court system, it's the court system that is only issuing a check to us (the lawyer and me) every other month. Hence, the double payments every other month.

So... I'm hoping that's where we are going forward, steady payments every month or every other month. If so, this may not get updated for another three years, when I can announce the final payment.

Meanwhile, my current employment is going well. At my 70 day review the first words out of the Team Leader's mouth was "Boy, am I happy we hired you!" and things improved from there. It will take awhile, but I'm hoping to wangle a situation where I'm earning an actual living income and my lawsuit payments can become my "fun money" and I get the last laugh or three.

Did you know you have to pay taxes on court awards? You do. The proper form to be issued is a 1099-MISC. I'm supposed to get one from the Pumpkin Harpy by February 1. Hmmm... January 30, still no sign of such form. Gee....

Guess the accountant and I go to plan B, document what I've received, tell the IRS the Pumpkin Harpy is being stupid again, and let them deal with her.

Also - found out my lawyer is going after the Pumpkin Harpy again. Another former employee. He's also trying to angle for getting the same judge again. He's quite the attack dog.

How did you find out that your lawyer is going after Pumpkin Harpy again? Presumably he/she wouldn't discuss other client's information with you.

mr friendly guy wrote:How did you find out that your lawyer is going after Pumpkin Harpy again? Presumably he/she wouldn't discuss other client's information with you.

Many court documents are public once filed. So there needn't be any privileged information exchanged for Broomstick to know that the matter is before the courts.

He might even have the other client's explicit permission on the off chance they decide to call her as a witness. Pattern of behavior and all that.

Broomstick wrote:Did you know you have to pay taxes on court awards? You do. The proper form to be issued is a 1099-MISC. I'm supposed to get one from the Pumpkin Harpy by February 1. Hmmm... January 30, still no sign of such form. Gee....

Reading the IRS publication, it looks like some pay are exempt from taxes. Getting our lawmakers to make taxes be paid by the employer in any case is pretty enticing as another penalty though.