Independance Day aliens vs Loki and Avengers

[U.P. Cinnabar]

This shot, Axton. And, this one, immediately following.

[Crazedwraith]

Look at the screenshot above. Those are a damned sight beyond scratches.

What screenshot? You've not posted any.

Um... what. I think you'll find that I did. Even NecronLord saw it and posted a better version of same.

Nope. All you posted was :

Since we haven't seen them strike an ID4 ship, we don't know that. We do know that once those shields were taken down, even the AMRAAM missiles fired by FA/18s had their normal effect -- though, granted, AMRAAMs alone might not have actually brought down the ship, they did appear to be doing it significant damage.

What? Post screencaps.

Sure. From 2:09:03.

No images. No links. Nothing except a timestamp. I don't have a dvd to hand and wouldn't be sure I was seeing what you meant anyway.

[Batman]

Why would anyone expect to see damage on something that size (with the resilience required for interstellar travel in nonridiculous timeframes) from bleedin' AMRAAMs? Those would be hard-pressed to hurt a WW2 heavy cruiser, leave alone a battleship nevermind an ID4 citykiller.

[NecronLord]

Because Axton seems to think there's some massive damage? I mean it's likely they damaged sensors or maybe even some windows. But nothing on a visible scale.

His argument is that the missiles were doing damage, so Iron Man's repulsor beams should be able to grind a city destroyer down given time.

[Batman]

So another 'all armour is ablative' idiot?

[Axton]

Sure. From 2:09:03.

No images. No links. Nothing except a timestamp. I don't have a dvd to hand and wouldn't be sure I was seeing what you meant anyway.

I call shenanigans. I definitely posted a screencap in that post.

[NecronLord]

You really didn't that's why I put them in mine.

[Axton]

I maintain shenanigans. I saw the screencap in my post, post-posting. (It's 3 in the morning, I'm on Standard Sleep Deprivation Time, sorry.)

[Axton]

Hey, y'know what else is real freakin' fun? How the same people that will engage in linguistic and cognitive frickin' acrobatics to claim that the "Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs" somehow means exactly what the words suggest -- even though what the words suggest is utterly nonsensical -- will turn around in this thread and say that "[the barrier] is unbreachable" does not mean that the goddamn barrier is fucking unbreachable.

That's just special, and by "special" I mean drool cup and foam helmet "special."

[NecronLord]

As it's still on page 1 I'm going to allow this.

Y'know what's really fun?

SDN didn't come up with the Kessel Run explanation, it's from the EU. SDN members have mocked Lucas' scientific ignorance on this point many many times.

[Crazedwraith]

Hey, y'know what else is real freakin' fun? How the same people that will engage in linguistic and cognitive frickin' acrobatics to claim that the "Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs" somehow means exactly what the words suggest -- even though what the words suggest is utterly nonsensical -- will turn around in this thread and say that "[the barrier] is unbreachable" does not mean that the goddamn barrier is fucking unbreachable.

1)That wasn't the majority argument-turning point of contention over the last 9 pages.
2)That 'Unbreachable' Barrier was breached like 10-15 minutes later in the film. So it obviously wasn't literally no-limits completely impossible to breach.

[Simon_Jester]

Hey, y'know what else is real freakin' fun? How the same people that will engage in linguistic and cognitive frickin' acrobatics to claim that the "Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs" somehow means exactly what the words suggest -- even though what the words suggest is utterly nonsensical...

I think that the words mean exactly what the words suggest in the movie. Namely, that Han Solo is speaking complete and utter gibberish to impress Luke. And he knows it. And Obi-Wan knows it too, and you can see on his face that he knows it, because Obi-Wan is an educated man who spent decades traveling the galaxy.

Luke... doesn't get it.

The explanation that the Kessel Run is a test of your ability to take short cuts, not just to move quickly, is rather clever though.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Hey, y'know what else is real freakin' fun? How the same people that will engage in linguistic and cognitive frickin' acrobatics to claim that the "Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs" somehow means exactly what the words suggest -- even though what the words suggest is utterly nonsensical -- will turn around in this thread and say that "[the barrier] is unbreachable" does not mean that the goddamn barrier is fucking unbreachable.

That's just special, and by "special" I mean drool cup and foam helmet "special."

In other words, you can't prove your point, so you kick off, and throw your toys out of the pram like a spoiled little baby.

I see no reason why anyone here should take anything you say seriously from this point forward.

[Axton]

I've been busy with matters other than message boards. The point is self-evident, requires no further elaboration, and has not been contested by you; rather, you elected to engage in ad hominem horseshit.

If your response is indicative of the quality of the debate I'd be working any further for, I see no reason why I should give a fraction of a shit whether anyone here takes anything I say seriously from now on or not.

Cram that up your crap hangar.

[Axton]

Hey, y'know what else is real freakin' fun? How the same people that will engage in linguistic and cognitive frickin' acrobatics to claim that the "Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs" somehow means exactly what the words suggest -- even though what the words suggest is utterly nonsensical -- will turn around in this thread and say that "[the barrier] is unbreachable" does not mean that the goddamn barrier is fucking unbreachable.

1)That wasn't the majority argument-turning point of contention over the last 9 pages.
2)That 'Unbreachable' Barrier was breached like 10-15 minutes later in the film. So it obviously wasn't literally no-limits completely impossible to breach.

It was breached by the mind-stone in Loki's scepter, not by anyone's weaponry. The Infinity Stones are susceptible to the Infinity Stones. The ID4/R aliens have never canonically displayed possession of Infinity Stones nor the ability to subvert or defeat Infinity Stones.

You've all been arguing scale. The ID4/R aliens vastly overmatch humans when it comes to scale. The Infinity Stones dwarf the ID4/R aliens in that same contest.

[LadyTevar]

Axton can now be found in Parting Shots.

[Cykeisme]

The problem with being ignorant, is that you're often ignorant of methods to identify your own ignorance.
It's a shame, otherwise these folks would likely get smarter and actually become fun to talk with!


Anyway, AMRAAMs have a piddly little fragmentation warhead (quick groogrle says it's 18 kilos of C4). Like most air-to-air missile warheads, it's designed to project shrapnel in every direction to tear through the soft skins and squishy innards of nearby aircraft.
Even worse, they're proximity fuzed (detecting distance by using the same active radar that provides terminal guidance)... which means that if you one of them was used against a large, thick-hulled target, it'd actually detonate before contact.. and give it a peppering of shrapnel.
Even a few centimeters of RHA would stop that cold, I reckon, never mind the god-knows-how-thick hulls of those behemoths, made of who-knows-what alien alloys.

On a different but related note, back when the movie first hit the screens, I felt the visual effects team should have shown the Hornets packing some AGM-65 or AGM-84 missiles on their inboard hardpoints, and show the fighters chucking those at the city-killer.
I mean, against something that size, there'd only be marginally better effect on the target (and pretty much the same visual special effects for the movie), but it would make more sense.

[Sky Captain]

Anyway, AMRAAMs have a piddly little fragmentation warhead (quick groogrle says it's 18 kilos of C4). Like most air-to-air missile warheads, it's designed to project shrapnel in every direction to tear through the soft skins and squishy innards of nearby aircraft.
Even worse, they're proximity fuzed (detecting distance by using the same active radar that provides terminal guidance)... which means that if you one of them was used against a large, thick-hulled target, it'd actually detonate before contact.. and give it a peppering of shrapnel.
Even a few centimeters of RHA would stop that cold, I reckon, never mind the god-knows-how-thick hulls of those behemoths, made of who-knows-what alien alloys.

On a different but related note, back when the movie first hit the screens, I felt the visual effects team should have shown the Hornets packing some AGM-65 or AGM-84 missiles on their inboard hardpoints, and show the fighters chucking those at the city-killer.
I mean, against something that size, there'd only be marginally better effect on the target (and pretty much the same visual special effects for the movie), but it would make more sense.

No existing conventional weapon would do more than scratch the surface against target of that scale. City killer easily could have multiple layers of dozens of meters thick armor, internal armored bulkheads, extra armor around multiple redundant critical systems. The thing is just so huge with so much volume to work with.

Even missiles with nuclear warheads could be fairly ineffective against city killers doing nothing more than making some minor craters on the surface if city killers are designed with such attack in mind. It could easily be that just to hold together under stresses caused by normal operations those ships have to be built so strongly that they are highly resistant to existing nuclear weapons.