The official Revolutions DISCUSSION thread

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2003-11-11 08:04pm

/Salute

Coalition · Post by **Coalition** » 2003-11-12 04:58am

Couple things:

1) the Main computer plugs Neo into the Matrix, and eventually Smith absorbs Neo. I am guessing that Smith was a virus (as stated in a certain other fanfic), and the MC needs to update its virus scanner. So by plugging Neo into a specificed port, and watching all the changes, the MC can develop an anti-viral program. Neo was fighting all the time so that Smith would assimilate him.

After assimilation, the MC knows how Smith reproduces, and what to look for. After that, run Virusscan, and select to automatically repair the damage. People might have been killed by Smith when taken over, while programs were fairly intact (which is why Sati was on her side, in an empty street).

Cute thing with the cat though, AKA deja vu from the first movie.

2) Lock chewing them out for detonating the EMP. He could have chewed them out, then a few seconds later say, "But I would have done the same thing". That would've gotten a lot of respect from me there. He would be admitting that he was merely human, and that the so-so choice now was better than the right choice later. Any military want to comment on this?

As it was, during 2&3, I almost felt sorry for Lock, he was trying to defend Zion, but the council was overriding his decisions (call for volunteers, letting Morhpeus go, don't send all the infantry, aso).

Maybe Lock was trying to send off some of his frustration, at what he thought was a valid target (Morhpeus, and anyone with him). Nice way at the end, when the council asked him what their chances of survival were, and he told them to talk to Morpheus, because Morpheus believed in miracles (maybe thinking "You've been overriding me from the very start of this war, and now you want me to tell you it will be all right? Well F you!")

One thing that could've been nice, is to use the processing power at Zion (seen in M2, where the jacked in people run Matrix overviews of their defenses), to run simulations, and present large sheets of data to the council to review, before the council makes any decisions. While they are busy making those decisions, Lock does his job. The computer sims could have also identified any weaknesses, and hundreds of tactics could have been compared, and studied.

More to be posted, as my brain dredges it up.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-11-12 04:53pm

Vympel wrote:
2000AD wrote:On the whole doctor killed by scalpel thing, could it be that she went into shock? Then Smith/Bane carved her up off screen?
No, we see her dead body as Bane left it later.

Well, maybe the scalpel wasn't properly sterilized. Hah, try to counter THAT.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-12 05:00pm

If i remember correctly, after he stabs her and is holding it in her, he violently rips it upward, skewering hier organs. Of course when we see her body its just stuck in her straight--chalk it up to a bad script supervisor. The contrived explanaition--she went into shock and passed out, and she actually dies offscreen.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-11-12 05:02pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Bane also had glowy shit on him; so did the interior of the Logos. Doesn't prove anything.

Actually, Neo could only see Bane because he was filled with The Smithyness. He was still blind and had to feel the sides of the Logos, and when he killed Bane, he watched the Smithenergy break up and disperse in a funny, virtual-reality way (if it was just life-energy it would have faded, not tesselated away

)

So he can't see this Source Code Juice in every human, because humans aren't The One. But Bane was like the Anti-One... so if Neo could watch himself he might see the neo-chlorians. Also the pods were full of them Force bytes, because the machines did know how to harvest this magickal energy. Nuff said

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-12 05:10pm

Slartibartfast wrote: neo-chlorians

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-11-12 05:16pm

I also think the best explanation for the poor Squiddy attack tactics, is that they have the image recognition capabilities of PaPeRo.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-11-12 10:29pm

Here are all the reasons I believe the life energy explanation as opposed to the body heat and neuro-electrical one:

1. Morpheus is probably not an expert on machine power draining methods. I doubt he even knows what a BTU or the other terminology he used means. Most Americans don't, and presumably he used to be one before he was pulled out.

2. I don't think the machines have ever explained what they're doing to the Zionists. I see no way for them to determine what's going on. This further reduces Morpheus's credibility.

3. Through neovision, the pods of humans glow very brightly. The attendant drones suck the brightness into themselves. Anything of the machines has this glow, with more important things glowing brighter. I believe that the neovision is actually detecting the released life energy. Normal humans don't glow because their energy isn't released. I haven't seen any other explanation for him being able to see machine things and only machine things, so this makes sense to me.

4. At the end when Smith was slain, bright white light came from every opening in Neo. This doesn't normally happen when you are killed in the Matrix, electrocuted, forcibly unplugged, or anything like that. If it is the life energy of Neo spewing out, it could be explained that way. When Neo is shown being carried away, he's glowing brighter than anything else in the neovision. That also indicates that he's giving off massive life energy.

I hope this clarifies

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-11-12 11:29pm

Seggybop wrote:Here are all the reasons I believe the life energy explanation as opposed to the body heat and neuro-electrical one:

1. Morpheus is probably not an expert on machine power draining methods. I doubt he even knows what a BTU or the other terminology he used means. Most Americans don't, and presumably he used to be one before he was pulled out.

Yeah OK this makes sense, you have no clue where the machine city or Zion is, it could be in Autralia (where the Matrix is filmed) could be in whats left of Europse. It could come from anywhere. So the staterment that Morpheus is American is a little bit of a pull it out your ass statement, same goes for "Morpheus doesn't know what he's talking about." He was IN the fields himself before being freed and has been at the fields as a commander. All from the movies unlike your making up stuff asssertions so he has a better idea of whats happening than you do.

You just can't unilaterally say Morpheus is wrong because it would help your argument. you have to show objectively that he is wrong and you can't. This is like Darkstar saying that Dodonna is wrong, he is a strategic commander of the rebellion WHY would he be wrong. Morpheus has been fighting the machines and been inside the Matrix WHY would he be wrong?

2. I don't think the machines have ever explained what they're doing to the Zionists. I see no way for them to determine what's going on. This further reduces Morpheus's credibility.

Really? I guess the fact that they can hack into what the computers of the matrix and many of the Zionists were part of the powerplant means nothing. Hell the Indian program says he's the powerplant managing program, not life force manager or Chi sucker.

The Sky is blackened blocking the machines from their primary power source, the sun. They turn to an alternate HEAT source - The human body.

3. Through neovision, the pods of humans glow very brightly. The attendant drones suck the brightness into themselves. Anything of the machines has this glow, with more important things glowing brighter. I believe that the neovision is actually detecting the released life energy. Normal humans don't glow because their energy isn't released. I haven't seen any other explanation for him being able to see machine things and only machine things, so this makes sense to me.

Uh...how about that the machines are part of the SOURCE, you know that thing mentioned throughout Revolutions and Reloaded. It is the machine life force, the one that if neo as a human touched should have DIED as per the Oracle but he is the One. All the bright lights you see are machines. He cannot see the Logos, cannot see Trinity, if its life energy how do you explain that he cannot see Trinity? If its because their life energy was not released then what about not seeing her when she died? You would rather embrace the concept that the machines were sucking an energy source we have no way of knowing exists or can measure and utilizing it instead of the simple thermal generation coupled with fusion?? I hate to drag out that tired out Occam's razor but it needs some slashing through this argument.

You see no other way because you WANT it to be the life force idea.

4. At the end when Smith was slain, bright white light came from every opening in Neo. This doesn't normally happen when you are killed in the Matrix, electrocuted, forcibly unplugged, or anything like that. If it is the life energy of Neo spewing out, it could be explained that way. When Neo is shown being carried away, he's glowing brighter than anything else in the neovision. That also indicates that he's giving off massive life energy.

Neo joined with the source. It is NOT the life force of Neo spewing out. It is him joining with the source as he was meant to do in Reloaded. He allowed Smith to assimlate him and then joined with the source which meant that he was destroyed in the process, thus destroying all the Smiths linked to him. The Matrix was restarted. Simple as that.

And Neo was growing brighter because he had now joined with the source.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-12 11:31pm

Seggybop wrote:Here are all the reasons I believe the life energy explanation as opposed to the body heat and neuro-electrical one:

1. Morpheus is probably not an expert on machine power draining methods. I doubt he even knows what a BTU or the other terminology he used means. Most Americans don't, and presumably he used to be one before he was pulled out.

Most Americans know that heaters and air conditioners are rated in BTUs per hour. They know it has something to do with heat energy.

2. I don't think the machines have ever explained what they're doing to the Zionists. I see no way for them to determine what's going on. This further reduces Morpheus's credibility.

The fact that Morpheus is an idiot reduces his credibility. However, the machines are also demonstrably idiots. After hearing about the machine tactics employed in the third film, I am tempted to conclude that the machines built the giant human pod heat-farms because they were honestly too fucking stupid to realize what a gigantic waste of time it was.

3. Through neovision, the pods of humans glow very brightly. The attendant drones suck the brightness into themselves. Anything of the machines has this glow, with more important things glowing brighter. I believe that the neovision is actually detecting the released life energy. Normal humans don't glow because their energy isn't released. I haven't seen any other explanation for him being able to see machine things and only machine things, so this makes sense to me.

Since Neo-vision is apparently due to his ongoing connection with the Matrix, the glowing pattern around objects which are connected to the Matrix has an obvious cause which does not require the invention of meaningless pseudoscientific bullshit.

4. At the end when Smith was slain, bright white light came from every opening in Neo. This doesn't normally happen when you are killed in the Matrix, electrocuted, forcibly unplugged, or anything like that. If it is the life energy of Neo spewing out, it could be explained that way. When Neo is shown being carried away, he's glowing brighter than anything else in the neovision. That also indicates that he's giving off massive life energy.

No, from your description it would actually indicate that a lot of computation activity is taking place around him.

I hope this clarifies

It clarifies that you are not thinking rationally about this.

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2003-11-12 11:33pm

Yeah that clarifies but does not prove your hypothesis to be correct.

If the machines are using life energy to power themselves then why did only the machines glow. Shouldn't hmmm say Trinity be glowing also but wait she wasn't at any point during the movie. If the machines used life energy then why did Bane glow when he himself was not a machine? Oh he glowed because he was a computer program inside of a human.

You mean the glow comes from him being a computer program. You know like the computer programs that are running all of the AI machines. Like the breeding fields that you keep harping on. Those are all machines in the fields even the birthing areas are filled with machines otherwise how would they evacuate all the fluids that the body excretes without somesort of pump mechanism. What would that pump be controlled by? Oh yeah a computer program.

The light is from the different computer programs and intelligences that he was able to see as he had a connection to the machine "Source".

Just becuase you don't think Morpheus doesn't know something or you don't think the machines would let the knowledge of their actions come out does not an argument make.

And if you remember correctly the light through Neovision was of a more yellow tint than the bright white light that came from Smith when he popped. Perhaps the W brothers were trying to clue the audience in on the fact that the machines were purging the Matrix of the virus? You purging, purifying hence a white light might be emitted for the idea to be completely understood.

The light isn't life, it's a computer program. Do you really think that's chicken you're eating?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-11-13 12:48am

Meanwhile, in the Defense of Zion....

The Machines idea of a good attack plan, circling around for hours on end!

Note the brilliance of the machines attacking the isolated Zionist mecha! Don't bother attacking on all sides, just run right in front of his guns. Hell, if he misses you, he'll at least hit one of your buddies!

Don't worry, we'll get you yet! Rip you up! Your mech will still work, however. We like to think of it as professional courtesy.

In return, Zionist mecha are just as stupid! Look as they raise their rapid fire 30mm cannons as high above their center of gravity as they can!

They even manage to fuck up iron sights. That takes dedication.

And to the right, we have the showcase of the evening, the happy dancing mecha of fucking stupidity.

My theory? They pulled the operator out of the Mexican Matrix, he got wasted on tequila before the battle, and is prematurely doing a victory celebration.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-11-13 01:17am

zombie84 wrote:If i remember correctly, after he stabs her and is holding it in her, he violently rips it upward, skewering hier organs. Of course when we see her body its just stuck in her straight--chalk it up to a bad script supervisor. The contrived explanaition--she went into shock and passed out, and she actually dies offscreen.

He did? Even if he did, there's the little thing called the ribcage, which presumably should be protecting her vital organs. I mean, Bane didn't even angle the scalpel upwards, did he? He just stuck it straight in.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-11-13 02:00am

ROFLMAO Hotfoot ....

I don't know if those autocannons are 30mm though. I'd have to see the bullets that are loaded again.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-11-13 02:10am

Vympel wrote:ROFLMAO Hotfoot ....

I don't know if those autocannons are 30mm though. I'd have to see the bullets that are loaded again.

Sadly, that is what they are being billed as. In the Matrix website, they have an entire section dedicated to the Revolutions Mecha.

BY ADAM GRACE
APU FOREMAN

THE APU (Armoured Personnel Unit) is a human-piloted offensive/defensive mobile platform. It is anthropomorphic with bipedal locomotion and two independent 30mm belt-feed guns. The APU and the APU Corps form part of the defence against the Matrix, in particular the Sentinels.

THE MATRIX REVOLUTIONS features an enormous battle between the Sentinels and the APU Corps in Zion.

From discussions I've had elsewhere, I've gathered that these cannons must use low velocity rounds to avoid falling over with those guns raised as high up as they are.

As I said before, glass the planet, let the cockroaches have a shot at the whole dominant species bit. Couldn't do much worse....

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-11-13 03:15am

Hotfoot wrote: From discussions I've had elsewhere, I've gathered that these cannons must use low velocity rounds to avoid falling over with those guns raised as high up as they are.

As I said before, glass the planet, let the cockroaches have a shot at the whole dominant species bit. Couldn't do much worse....

How much do they weigh? Judging from their ground pressure/weight, a guess could be roughly made ...

They're quite proud of their idiotic little design aren't they ...

Oh, look at this!

Initial designs were produced by Conceptual Artist Geof Darrow. Some early renditions incorporated ideas such as a fully enclosed battle suit. (see The Art of The Matrix, pg 269) A final design was approved, with eventual minor changes such as the removal of the head shield and console plating to enable a clearer view of characters. Often details are altered to accommodate the requirements for filming. In this case the general look and feel is maintained but the needs of the story and character recognition is given priority.

This, people, is the epitome of what's wrong with the entire damn film. Style over substance. Why make a fully enclosed suit, you won't be able to see the character ... idiots. Ever heard of a refrigerator shot? Real masters of filmaking there- in the final product you can't tell who the hell is in which suit anyway.

The most hilarious thing is that they call it the 'Armored Personnel Unit' ... how the fuck does a completely open cockpit warrant that description?

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » 2003-11-13 03:21am

Vympel wrote:The most hilarious thing is that they call it the 'Armored Personnel Unit' ... how the fuck does a completely open cockpit warrant that description?

Because it was armored at one point in the conceptual phase?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-11-13 03:34am

Vympel wrote:How much do they weigh? Judging from their ground pressure/weight, a guess could be roughly made ...

The full scale model weighed in at 3,000 kg (3 tonnes). It included quite a bit of aluminum, not to mention fibreglass and silicon molds. If I had to guess, I'd probably tag it as having to be about twice that, but then that's just a wild guess.

This, people, is the epitome of what's wrong with the entire damn film. Style over substance. Why make a fully enclosed suit, you won't be able to see the character ... idiots. Ever heard of a refrigerator shot? Real masters of filmaking there- in the final product you can't tell who the hell is in which suit anyway.

The most hilarious thing is that they call it the 'Armored Personnel Unit' ... how the fuck does a completely open cockpit warrant that description?

I saw what was apparently the original "armored" APU. It's not much better, really. Just puts rollbar over the operator and slaps two metal plates on it directly in front of the operator, one above his head, the other in front of his torso and legs. It's some protection, but that's like taking solace that, while you can still get aids from unprotected anal sex, at least you won't have offspring.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-11-13 06:04am

The thing is the mechs in the 2nd Ren. were enclosed, the zionists have access to those files so why did they take a step back and remove the friggin armour?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-11-13 06:56am

Stravo wrote:Yeah OK this makes sense, you have no clue where the machine city or Zion is,

01's in Iraq matey.

Hence the peoples of Zion being held in bondage by the Babylonians.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-11-13 07:04am

Seggybop wrote: 3. Through neovision, the pods of humans glow very brightly. The attendant drones suck the brightness into themselves. Anything of the machines has this glow, with more important things glowing brighter. I believe that the neovision is actually detecting the released life energy. Normal humans don't glow because their energy isn't released. I haven't seen any other explanation for him being able to see machine things and only machine things, so this makes sense to me.

Errr, weren't those the fields where the babies are grown? and the attendant drones were removing them from stalks to be moved to their adult pods, as we saw in The Matrix?

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2003-11-13 09:52am

NecronLord wrote:
Seggybop wrote: 3. Through neovision, the pods of humans glow very brightly. The attendant drones suck the brightness into themselves. Anything of the machines has this glow, with more important things glowing brighter. I believe that the neovision is actually detecting the released life energy. Normal humans don't glow because their energy isn't released. I haven't seen any other explanation for him being able to see machine things and only machine things, so this makes sense to me.
Errr, weren't those the fields where the babies are grown? and the attendant drones were removing them from stalks to be moved to their adult pods, as we saw in The Matrix?

As far as I can remember, they were full sized pods.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-11-13 10:01am

Humm.

Hotfoot, you couldn't get us a screencap of that could you?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-11-13 11:04am

NecronLord wrote:
Stravo wrote:Yeah OK this makes sense, you have no clue where the machine city or Zion is,
01's in Iraq matey.

Hence the peoples of Zion being held in bondage by the Babylonians.

We don't know if 01 is the machine city. 01 was nuked by the humans in Rennaisaince II and they gave us no idea as to the extent of the damage, besides, I don't think there are mountains in the Tigris Euphrates river vallley like the ones we saw in the movie.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-11-13 11:42am

NecronLord wrote:Humm.

Hotfoot, you couldn't get us a screencap of that could you?

Not likely. The only scenes in Neo-vision that are immediately available are Bane/Smith, Walking on Water, and the Sentinel Ghost.