nBSG: LDYB Pt 2 thread

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-03-11 03:18am

That was simply amazing. I'm still not sure I've come to fully accept what's going on just yet. I was looking over on the scifi.com forums, it looks like a lot of people are considering much of this episode a dream squence or something.

I welcome the change!

I knew the priest was a cylon

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-03-11 03:18am

Wouldn't be the first time a politician has made a big promise then shafted the voters.

True enough, but what's scary is that it doesn't look like Baltar has any competition politically, who could seize on his failure to live up to his promises and make them happen to score political points against him.

It looks like they're having problems with their workforce and are probably checking out the resources of the planet.

It is true they're having a big labor dispute, than looks like it's about to become violent. I bet resolving that is going to be big on the Cylons' agenda. Also, I certainly hope they've been looking around for resources, since they'll have to if they plan to live there long-term. Again, I am sure the Cylons will play a big role in that process.

Personally, I'm bothered by the fact that this planet doesn't have animals.

That is very strange, and I hadn't noticed it. It makes me wonder if the Cylons can terraform, since this whole situation has screamed "too good to be true!!" in a very loud voice.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2006-03-11 03:23am

Jason von Evil wrote: It looks like they're having problems with their workforce and are probably checking out the resources of the planet.

Personally, I'm bothered by the fact that this planet doesn't have animals.

Right now the economy would by necessity be state run. However, there are signs that a market is developing, with what appear to be street vendors and some of the products we see on screen.

Where did the "no animals" thing come from? I don't remember them saying so, and it looked from the episode like there was a vendor selling meat from some kind of small animal.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2006-03-11 03:56am

Starbuck hugging Tigh I think is sort of reasonable. It indicates that the days on New Caprica are becoming shitty as hell, so she even misses Tigh (or, probably, those "good ol' days" on Galactica).

xammer99 · Post by **xammer99** » 2006-03-11 04:30am

npisd wrote:Considering Helo's still on the Galactica, Sharon's probably still in the brig.

I'm putting my money down that she and the priests got spaced.

xammer99 · Post by **xammer99** » 2006-03-11 04:47am

a. re: looking like they sat down, got out and that's it?

Well...yeah. They probably did since they have a totally in effective body of overall leadership. No leadership = people doin their own thing willy nilly and nothin gets done.

b. I was rather amused by the total disrespect that Baltar was showing to his office. The woman getting dressed in the background as he starts the day with a hang over AND popping pills while everyone else is short of medicine.

That was just such a great touch to demonstrate just how much of a scumbag Baltar really is. Using medicine for recreation when the folks are out there dyin.

c. I'm betting that the Cloud 9 probably didn't take all 10K of those folks, but a very sizeable chunk. The rest are on the skeleton crews of the fleet.

d. As someone said earlier, that was the best television I have ever watched. It was truly magnificent.

Moore called that a "gamble" fuck that...that was a sure frakkin fire bet. It was just...amazing.

Grandmaster Jogurt · Post by **Grandmaster Jogurt** » 2006-03-11 05:02am

In regards to Balthar becoming a horrible president, well, I think it works pretty well. I mean, he's never been anything close to leadership material. Yes, he's grown as a person as the series progressed, but I don't think he ever progressed to "good person".

Not only that, but when Cloud 9 exploded, I'm pretty sure Balthar broke. This was the second time he was secretly responsible for the death of a good chunk of mankind, and I don't think he handled it very well. I'm interested in seeing how his fragile psyche will react to his realisation that he's also the one who lead the Cylons to New Caprica...

Also, a count of who's still in the fleet:
Galactica
Adm. Adama
Helo

Pegasus
Cmd. Adama
Lt. Dualla

...anyone else?

...SHIT. Just realised that Cottle's stuck on the planet!

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-03-11 06:27am

xammer99 wrote:
npisd wrote:Considering Helo's still on the Galactica, Sharon's probably still in the brig.
I'm putting my money down that she and the priests got spaced.

If that were the case Helo would be gone. She has to still be gone or else the two of them would be playing happy homemakes now.

I wonder how Hera is doing. Babies need a lot of medical attantion, and they don't have that. On the other hand, she does have that healing factor.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-03-11 06:33am

So how many ships did they end up landing ?

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2006-03-11 07:26am

I wonder where Captain Kelly the LSO is?

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2006-03-11 08:48am

Heh, no one can accuse this show of maintaining the status quo. That was one hell of a finale.

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2006-03-11 09:31am

JME2 wrote:One last note: With the One Year Later (no relation to the DC jump), there's a year's worth of untold story. We've got six months until the third season opens shop. I expect to see the board's fanfic writers busy...

Well, there is the comic being released. I hope it covers that.

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthr ... adid=62040

JadeOwl · Post by **JadeOwl** » 2006-03-11 09:40am

Sabastian Tombs wrote:I think that 39,000+ population only referred to New Caprica City. The other 10,000 could still be in orbit with the fleet.

Or in farms around the settlement, growing the food. Another possibility is that Adama insisted that not all the colonist settle in a single location.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2006-03-11 09:55am

Jason von Evil wrote:Personally, I'm bothered by the fact that this planet doesn't have animals.

I'm not. Frankly, it looks exactly like the miserable sort of place one would expect a very young planet to look like. It's a world swathed in what looks like an extremely dense nebula, which implies its parent star is still very much within its parent stellar nursery. This also implies that the system is extremely young. I'd be astonished if life on New Caprica had evolved much beyond "oxygen producing prokaryote" before those meddlesome humans and the race of psychotic androids following them showed up.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2006-03-11 10:01am

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:
Jason von Evil wrote:Personally, I'm bothered by the fact that this planet doesn't have animals.
I'm not. Frankly, it looks exactly like the miserable sort of place one would expect a very young planet to look like. It's a world swathed in what looks like an extremely dense nebula, which implies its parent star is still very much within its parent stellar nursery. This also implies that the system is extremely young. I'd be astonished if life on New Caprica had evolved much beyond "oxygen producing prokaryote" before those meddlesome humans and the race of psychotic androids following them showed up.

Dualla mentions fruit trees in the last episode, and IIRC, Apollo tells the pilots doing surveys that they will be focusing on a river delta with forest areas.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2006-03-11 10:02am

The only thing I disliked in this hour+ long mindfuck is the tent city. Cmon, they couln't land some raptors, strip stuff out of them and make them into homes? A couple of ships in the fleet? They were living in conditions worse then slums, which was taking it a bit too far, in my opinion.

Other then that, my brain is going WTFWTFWTFWTFWTF right now

The risk Moore was talking about is the resolution of this nigthmare, I think. It isn't that difficult fucking up everyone hard, but the problem is they have to survive (the begining of the) next season with, at most, one or two primary characters dead, and it will be mighty difficult to pull it off and also return to some sort of normalcy without it looking like a unrealistic copout.

We will see... but if the resolution is as half as good, this will be talked about as one of the best cliffhangers ever. Talk about fucking with almost every element of the series' premise...

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2006-03-11 10:17am

A few questions on the two Priests' conversations which was FUNNY AS HELL in the beginning, "I'm not a Cylon.. oh.. well.. yeah I'm a cylon."

1) There is no God? What did the Priest mean that there is no God, when God and His Will have played such an important part throughout the series?

2) Are the cylons a democracy or is there a ruling body, etc that Sharon and 6 have held sway over?

3) Why was chasing the fleet a mistake?

4) How can they move to becoming more perfect machines after they strove hard to become more perfect people than people?

And questions about the end:

1) Which Six was that? The one who blew herself up, or Caprica Six? And which Sharon was that? Could it be possible they orchestrated it to get back to those they love? Six with Baltar, and Sharon with Tyrol.. who has now knocked up Cally? Should be interesting to see what happens to evidently overly-hormonal Boomer to see her man with someone else.

2) How will the Battlestars fight? It took them a long time just to get to emergency ready. They're practically empty. Will they have to abandon one Battlestar to crew the other?

And some speculations about next season:

1) I have a feeling Baltar's going to go the way of the original series, at least partially. In his misguided attempt to preserve humanity, I bet he will start working with the cylons to hunt down the new resistance fighters to restore order.

LapsedPacifist · Post by **LapsedPacifist** » 2006-03-11 10:26am

It seems like Lee took the Starbuck/Anders thing harder than I expected. Starbuck was being a bit of an ass, but I don't know what else anybody could have expected having just rescued her "thing to live for" from Caprica.

LP

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-03-11 10:38am

Dualla mentions fruit trees in the last episode, and IIRC, Apollo tells the pilots doing surveys that they will be focusing on a river delta with forest areas.

How do we know she had access to the reports coming back? It could have been a rumor or an exaggeration, or even wishful thinking. Remember that she said this while chatting with Gaeta, not in a formal briefing. People were not thinking rationally about this development at the time.

1) There is no God? What did the Priest mean that there is no God, when God and His Will have played such an important part throughout the series?

2) Are the cylons a democracy or is there a ruling body, etc that Sharon and 6 have held sway over?

3) Why was chasing the fleet a mistake?

4) How can they move to becoming more perfect machines after they strove hard to become more perfect people than people?

1) Either the Cylons have recently decided their belief in a god is not worth continuing, or it was a mindfuck for the fleet to make them think they actually intended to leave them alone. However, they seem to be quite mercurial about their plans, so for all we know, any day now they might change back to wanting to wipe out humanity.

2) We don't know for sure how they run their society. Even if they are a democracy, it's possible for a few people to sway public opinion even without actual power.

3) Again, maybe this is part of the mindfuck. They lull the fleet into a false sense of security so they'll assume the chase is over. Once they're nice and settled on New Caprica, BANG, the Cylons show up again and take over.

4) Once again, it could be part of the mindfuck, to make the humans think they're done with them. However, the idea of them being the best machines ever could explain their claims to want to care for the human race. They are tools created to make life easier,so now they're going to make humans' lives easier whether they like it or not. It lets them look superior and humble at the same time, which is a big ego stroke for them.

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2006-03-11 10:38am

Alex Moon wrote:Having thought about it more, I find it a little unbelievable that the Galactica and Pegasus were so understaffed and in such disrepair. Life on New Caprica is obviously harsh, and you'd think that for many of the crew, quarters on board a ship with running water and indoor plumbing would be a good thing.

At the very minimum, I would expect them to keep a large portion of the crew rotating through in order to keep skills up and for defense purposes.

This actually I agree with wholeheartedly. It seems to me as if Starbuck isn't too terribly happy to be there, and surely there are others who aren't thrilled by the process. Why the fuck are they there? You've got fresh, ready to drink water on Galactica and Pegasus, you've got manufacturing facilities to help build parts for vipers and perhaps homes. You have a climate controlled enviornment.

Sure, I can understand much of the public going down to the planet. The ships they were on were crowded. Living space was tight. But a good 17+ thousand voters went with Roslin. Even if all of those didn't agree with leaving the planet, some must have agreed that they shouldn't stick around.

It begs the question on whether Batlar forced a quota of people to remain in orbit. A kind of "just enough to keep things running if that" type of thing. It makes some sense. You can't make others feel like this is a real settlement if half or more of the fleet is living it up in the ships. Plus it's harder to get things started with less people on the planet. But I really am wondering what the reason is for everyone being on the planet. Hopefully a podcast, a Q&A with Moore, or the DVD commentaries will address this issue.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2006-03-11 10:42am

Trytostaydead wrote: 2) How will the Battlestars fight? It took them a long time just to get to emergency ready. They're practically empty. Will they have to abandon one Battlestar to crew the other?

I have a feeling that the people left on the civilian ships will be pressed into service aboard the battlestars. The only ships that would be immune from this would be the mining/refining vessels. Everyone else is now in the military.

And I'm going to laugh my ass off if the Zarek is still in the fleet (POS Comcast DVR chopped off the last minute of the show, so I don't know if he's on the planet or not).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-03-11 10:49am

I didn't see him in any of the shots on New Caprica, but that of course doesn't automatically mean he wasn't planet-side.

xerex · Post by **xerex** » 2006-03-11 10:53am

LapsedPacifist wrote:It seems like Lee took the Starbuck/Anders thing harder than I expected. Starbuck was being a bit of an ass, but I don't know what else anybody could have expected having just rescued her "thing to live for" from Caprica.
LP

I suspect that when they got married in the missing year, Lee had a bit of an outburst. He and Duella didnt look that friendly when Thrace called, so at a minmum Duella knows that Lee has a thing for Thrace.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-03-11 11:00am

It begs the question on whether Batlar forced a quota of people to remain in orbit. A kind of "just enough to keep things running if that" type of thing. It makes some sense. You can't make others feel like this is a real settlement if half or more of the fleet is living it up in the ships. Plus it's harder to get things started with less people on the planet.

I think he left a bare minimum of people on the ships as a concession to his critics. I'm sure some people were not fans of the idea of just emptying the ships and forgetting about them. He just left skeleton crews aboard and still pretty much forgot about them unless they needed something that was aboard them.

2) How will the Battlestars fight? It took them a long time just to get to emergency ready. They're practically empty. Will they have to abandon one Battlestar to crew the other?

This will probably be how the Pegasus goes out. A crazier theory would be that the Bucket gets stripped and left behind, and the Beast gets renamed Galactica out of some bizarre sentiment. Either way, if they come back with one Battlestar, Bill will be captain and Lee will be XO. Wonder who wll be CAG.

And I'm going to laugh my ass off if the Zarek is still in the fleet (POS Comcast DVR chopped off the last minute of the show, so I don't know if he's on the planet or not).

We don't see Zarek on New Caprica, though we don't see a lot of it (we sure don't see all 39,162 people in the "city"). He might still be there, and a member of the Quorum. Either way, I hope he turns up next season.

xerex · Post by **xerex** » 2006-03-11 11:39am

Just looked over at the SciFi Board. Damn those people are dense. Still claiming its a dream sequence. and that if it isnt RM has ruined the show.