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CaptainChewbacca wrote:When you put it that way, coming back with 99.9% losses is just insane. When was the last time a modern army took that sort of beating? Has any army EVER been that completely destroyed?

During Shaka Zulu's rule he completely exterminated an army of 25-30000 raised in revolt against him. (the miniseries got it wrong on how the battle went, the english 'ambassador' was present but did not take part) but the battle did occur.

Battle of Tannenberg Line, 40000 Germans with 60 tanks and mobile artillery, held against 230,000 Russian infantry with 450 tanks. The Germans lost 10000 men the Russians lost 210,000 and 200+ tanks.

Stuart wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:When you put it that way, coming back with 99.9% losses is just insane. When was the last time a modern army took that sort of beating? Has any army EVER been that completely destroyed?

The 99.9 percent casualty here is very high but remember these are essentially leg infantry marching head first into a defense built around barbed wire, minefields and artillery with an armored counter-attack and pursuit

And Bronze Age leg infantry at that. It's not even as if they can effectively hit back at armoured vehicles, or artillery.

JN1 wrote:

Stuart wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:When you put it that way, coming back with 99.9% losses is just insane. When was the last time a modern army took that sort of beating? Has any army EVER been that completely destroyed?

The 99.9 percent casualty here is very high but remember these are essentially leg infantry marching head first into a defense built around barbed wire, minefields and artillery with an armored counter-attack and pursuit

And Bronze Age leg infantry at that. It's not even as if they can effectively hit back at armoured vehicles, or artillery.

Never mind effectively hitting back, the infantry can't hit back at all.

The Vortex Empire wrote:

JN1 wrote:

Stuart wrote: The 99.9 percent casualty here is very high but remember these are essentially leg infantry marching head first into a defense built around barbed wire, minefields and artillery with an armored counter-attack and pursuit

And Bronze Age leg infantry at that. It's not even as if they can effectively hit back at armoured vehicles, or artillery.

Never mind effectively hitting back, the infantry can't hit back at all.

Mind you, this particular Bronze Age army has air support: something that no human army had until WW1. But it's not enough to change the outcome.

Darth Wong wrote:

The Vortex Empire wrote:

JN1 wrote: And Bronze Age leg infantry at that. It's not even as if they can effectively hit back at armoured vehicles, or artillery.

Never mind effectively hitting back, the infantry can't hit back at all.

Mind you, this particular Bronze Age army has air support: something that no human army had until WW1. But it's not enough to change the outcome.

I only meant the infantry couldn't hit back. The harpies are more dangerous than the standard baldricks, but they still can't do much to an armored vehicle.

You, good sir have written one of the best pieces of fiction I have ever read.
Seriously. You should be getting paid for this

Holy crap, this thread is 2000 posts and more views than the entire cleaned fanfics archive combined!

Tartarus wrote:You, good sir have written one of the best pieces of fiction I have ever read.
Seriously. You should be getting paid for this

He..hehe.Hahahahar.....
And he does through this: link

Though you can't read it any more on this forum, he once posted it here...

Also, it won't be very long until it best StarCrossed in number of views and that reminds me... WHERE IS IT? We need to make Stravo Gets His Groove Back 2!

Also very good job on your fiction, I'm loving it! (TM McDonalds) .
So in another words it is awesome...

fusion wrote:

Tartarus wrote:You, good sir have written one of the best pieces of fiction I have ever read.
Seriously. You should be getting paid for this

He..hehe.Hahahahar.....
And he does through this: link

Though you can't read it any more on this forum, he once posted it here...

Also, it won't be very long until it best StarCrossed in number of views and that reminds me... WHERE IS IT? We need to make Stravo Gets His Groove Back 2!

Also very good job on your fiction, I'm loving it! (TM McDonalds) .
So in another words it is awesome...

Thank you all for the kind words; Part 30 should be coming along soon. Much credit is due to Stravo, Starglider, Surlethe, Jan and all the others who have contributed parts of the text. This is really a communal effort and is all the better for it.

JN1 wrote:And Bronze Age leg infantry at that. It's not even as if they can effectively hit back at armoured vehicles, or artillery.

You know, I've been thinking, we've been calling them Bronze Age, but their tactics really shouldn't be. They can shoot lightening through their tridents. That should make their tactics similar to early gunpowder era (before machine guns), but with no cannons. Unless the refire rate is really low, or only a limited number of them can do it.

Or they never felt the need. Just cuz the chinese had gunpowder doesnt mean they made use of it.

You know, since we're back to WWII production levels; we need Manufacturer designations. Do we use the old 1962 designations, such as:

CF - Convair, Fort Worth - for Lockheed Martin's plant?

Or do we just go to

LF - Lockheed - Fort Worth?

for F-22C-25-CF or F-22C-25-LFs built at Fort Worth?

More to the point, what's left? I've managed to ID these production lines:

Boeing
Renton, Wash. (Commercial)
Everett, Wash. (Commercial)
Mesa, AZ (AH-64)
El Segundo, CA
St Louis, MO (F-15, F-18)
Philadelphia (V-22, H-46, H47)

Lockheed Martin:
Fort Worth, TX (Former Convair)
Marietta, GA (Lockheed)
Palmdale, CA (Skunk Works)

But I'm at a blank for what's left after all the draw downs.

Tartarus wrote:You, good sir have written one of the best pieces of fiction I have ever read.
Seriously. You should be getting paid for this

He may possibly turn this into a book after he's done. He's done it with TBO and several of the sequels.

MKSheppard wrote:You know, since we're back to WWII production levels; we need Manufacturer designations. Do we use the old 1962 designations, such as:

CF - Convair, Fort Worth - for Lockheed Martin's plant?

I don't think those are necessary, unless there are notable differences between two products filling the same need, e.g., the Colt M1917 revolver and the Smith & Wesson M1917 revolver (the S & W has a lug to secure the ejector rod, the Colt doesn't), and the MP43(W) and the MP43(H) (both fire the 7.95 x 33 mm round, but they're different designs by different companies). So we might get a T-45(BA) (BA being the NYSE code for Boeing) with a Pratt & Whitney engine and a 20 mm Gatling gun, and a T-45(UK) with a Rolls Royce engine and a Mauser 27 mm autocannon.

Sidewinder wrote:I don't think those are necessary

Yes they are. You need to be able to track where an aircraft came from, in case of a major screw up, you can then easily backtrack to the specific factory quickly, rather than having to consult tables of serial numbers:

'Uh, 41239 through 42200 were built by Lockheed, and so on"

MKSheppard wrote:You need to be able to track where an aircraft came from, in case of a major screw up, you can then easily backtrack to the specific factory quickly, rather than having to consult tables of serial numbers:

So basically, you want to minimize the hassle of fuckups like the F-15s getting grounded because of faulty longeron?

Sidewinder wrote:So basically, you want to minimize the hassle of fuckups like the F-15s getting grounded because of faulty longeron?

Nitpick; the faulty longeron was fine; it's just that the F-15 fleet is at best 25 years old by now, and needs a replacement badly

KlavoHunter wrote:

Tartarus wrote:You, good sir have written one of the best pieces of fiction I have ever read.
Seriously. You should be getting paid for this

He may possibly turn this into a book after he's done. He's done it with TBO and several of the sequels.

My impression is that Stuart has done a lot of writing in his time though much of that is technical and some apparently classified. Have a look at the technical articles section of Navweaps ( naval ) or some of his articles on HPCA ( largely nuclear ). I for one thoroughly recommend them.

Jonathan

Junghalli wrote:You know, I've been thinking, we've been calling them Bronze Age, but their tactics really shouldn't be. They can shoot lightening through their tridents. That should make their tactics similar to early gunpowder era (before machine guns), but with no cannons.

I can think of two possible explanations for this.

Firstly, tactics are as much shaped by the enemy's capabilities as your own. The humans didn't have any real way of harming demons, ranged or melee. Historically the main use of the tridents vs humans was probably zapping the ones who tried to run away (plus their shock and awe value).

Secondly, trident bolts are pretty much one-hit-one-kill against humans but they aren't against other celestials. They inflict a nasty jolt and possibly a local burn but that's it. To kill a lesser demon takes several trident hits from other lesser demons. I've referenced how this factors into celestial tactics in an upcoming segment.

You know, there's almost inevitably going to be a shortage of machineguns for equipping the United States Volunteer Regiments. I was thinking about what to do about that, and it occurred to me that there's actually a potentially and enormously easy workaround. Gatling guns.

We don't need more than vehicle mobility for an HMG against the Baldricks; we can set them up exactly like artillery pieces (which the US Volunteers won't have many of, either) on carriages which can be designed to be hooked up to the tow bar of a common pickup truck, probably, in fact, made off of the chassis of U-haul trailers. The gatling gun itself can be in .458 magnum just like their rifles, and will achieve a high rate of fire through the simple mechanism of attaching a gear to the hand-crank; in this case, it can be as simple as a bicycle gear attached to the crank. This could easily yield enough energy to provide the spin required to deliver six hundred rounds a minute, sustained fire. And, of course, the ammunition can be set up to be belt-fed, and the mount will allow for the gatling to be trainable, letting it sweep a field.

How does that sound to get lots of machine-guns into the hands of the US Volunteers in a quick and dirty fashion using local machine shops and scavenged equipment for the most part?

EDIT: Speaking of which, similar local car-repair shop ingenuity and some simple hydraulic mechanisms could easily yield recoilless carriages for the artillery of those Civil War reenactors, considerably enhancing their rate of fire (they can be used like mortars), and of course also making them easily road-mobile.

Our problem, after all, is not a lack of bodies, but a lack of weapons.

Wouldn't it be better to mount it INSIDE the back of a pickup rather than on a trailer?

Edit: But yes, that does sound awesome.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Wouldn't it be better to mount it INSIDE the back of a pickup rather than on a trailer?

Edit: But yes, that does sound awesome.

You know, you're right, that's probably what could and would be done. And it would allow a very rapid response rate, really. They just get in their armed pickups (say about a squad to each one) and drive over to the location of the attack. Two to three men operate the machine-gun and the rest provide support with rifles and grenades.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Wouldn't it be better to mount it INSIDE the back of a pickup rather than on a trailer?

Edit: But yes, that does sound awesome.

You know, you're right, that's probably what could and would be done. And it would allow a very rapid response rate, really. They just get in their armed pickups (say about a squad to each one) and drive over to the location of the attack. Two to three men operate the machine-gun and the rest provide support with rifles and grenades.

I imagine the local USV's could base out of firehouses (since they might make police nervous). Some sort of 'jump seat' in the bed with straps for the gun crew, and perhaps even runners for extra men.

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: How does that sound to get lots of machine-guns into the hands of the US Volunteers in a quick and dirty fashion using local machine shops and scavenged equipment for the most part?

Making barrels is probably the biggest bottleneck in gun production, and this device would need more of them then a conventional design. Also, do we really want these people to have machine guns at all? Without proper training and officers it’s just asking for trouble. However whatever machine gun is produced, we need to have a tripod option. Machine guns on wheeled carriages are extremely difficult to dig in and conceal, and surprise is a good force multiplier.

Personally I think a hand cranked galting gun is more trouble then its worth, and if we really have them being churned out by backyard workshops then safety and reliability with be extremely serious issues. I’d say start producing the MG45. It very simple and cheap and the rate of fire is so high (giving very tight dispersion on each burst) that it should be highly lethal to Bladricks even with 7.92mm ammo. If we can’t find an MG45 to copy quickly enough then the MG42 will do, with a lightweight bolt it can cycle at 1,800rpm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Wouldn't it be better to mount it INSIDE the back of a pickup rather than on a trailer?

Edit: But yes, that does sound awesome.

You know, you're right, that's probably what could and would be done. And it would allow a very rapid response rate, really. They just get in their armed pickups (say about a squad to each one) and drive over to the location of the attack. Two to three men operate the machine-gun and the rest provide support with rifles and grenades.

1st US Redneck Army: General Cleetus, Commanding.