The Official Episode III spoiler thread

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-06 02:36pm

It´s wrong, it´s contrived, yet, I like it.

And if the CHUD reviewers managed to spot it, criticise it and still say most people won´t notice it that easily, there´s little I can do to influence public opinion anyway. It was just an observation.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-06 02:36pm

Yeah it really is awful; I'm definitely lobbying for it to be ignored in the canon if its true (notice the novelisation says nothing to this effect) and I'll personally disregard any strong implication.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-06 02:40pm

No you didn't write it poorly. And oh look, we just past Dr Evil stage ... it is really, really bad. Really. Seriously. Bad. Just ... wrong.

Oh, come on, guys, you know this is the kind of plan Palpatine revels in:

"Oh, yay, it looks like I´ve become the Chancellor due to sympathy for our plight!"

"Oh, look, a clone army, how fortunate!"

"Oh, Anakin, thank goodness you came here just in time to save me from these awful Jedi!"

"Oh, look, there´s the Rebel fleet! They must have heard about me coming to inspect this station! What a coincidence!"

Dr. Evil builds a moon-base with a DEATHRAY, and looses. Palpatine builds several moon-SIZED, interstellar space stations just for fun.

The guy´s operating on a whole other level. Palpatine´s life is like a giant goddamn chess-game.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-05-06 02:44pm

Look, a more rational explaination is that he's just lying through his teeth. What's to say that the Sith aren't just as aware about the prophecy as the Jedi?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-06 02:44pm

No, its just utterly ridiculous and another symptom of Star Wars the Soap Opera and Minimalist Universe. It started by nixing Kurtz's sequel trilogy and combining the Luke's sister's character into Leia with a single scene.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-06 02:48pm

Look, a more rational explaination is that he's just lying through his teeth. What's to say that the Sith aren't just as aware about the prophecy as the Jedi?

True, but the possibility is there for him to have created the means to his own destruction. Both are possible until I can see the movie and judge for myself.

What is interesting is the scene where he finds Vader after the duel, bends down and touches him, similar to Obi-Wan checking on Luke after the Sand-people attack. They say it seemed very un-Sith-like to care that much about him.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-06 02:50pm

VT-16 wrote:
Look, a more rational explaination is that he's just lying through his teeth. What's to say that the Sith aren't just as aware about the prophecy as the Jedi?
True, but the possibility is there for him to have created the means to his own destruction. Both are possible until I can see the movie and judge for myself.

What is interesting is the scene where he finds Vader after the duel, bends down and touches him, similar to Obi-Wan checking on Luke after the Sand-people attack. They say it seemed very un-Sith-like to care that much about him.

So Palpatine is not 100% Snidely Whiplash, and actually like to check his precious apprentice he's prepared for thirteen years for to see how strong his vitals are?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-06 02:52pm

Notice I said 'after the duel', as in 'when his legs and arm has been cut off and his body burnt to a crisp'. Or did you think I meant the duel with Dooku? LOL

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-06 02:56pm

VT-16 wrote:Notice I said 'after the duel', as in 'when his legs and arm has been cut off and his body burnt to a crisp'. Or did you think I meant the duel with Dooku? LOL

No, I meant after than duel; the fact that anyone would read anything out of that unusual or atypical for Palpatine is cretinously stupid.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-06 03:09pm

That was a separate poster and had nothing to do with the previous statements.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2005-05-06 03:11pm

In any event, if we follow the master/apprentice = parent/child themes of the film, then Palpatine could be considered Luke's grandfather -- from a certain point of view, of course...

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-06 03:12pm

Yeah, man, that whole galaxy is a big fucking certain point of view, man. Hand me the blunt.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-06 03:14pm

Lord Revan wrote:
She was a senator. I don´t believe she would be cut for that reason, probably just a publicity stunt on her part (she did attend SW conventions even after the cut. Why allow that if they didn´t want her there?)
Yeah Lucas doesn't seem that kind of a man, anyway one Lucas' daughters was in that scene and I don't think he would cut such a scene for reason that one several actors (who's isn't even in a critical role) did something that he didn't aprove.

just one question about the Playboy pics and then I stop, were they any good?

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-05-06 05:12pm

Are the Playboy pictures canon? I didn't think senators could use lightsabers.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-06 05:14pm

Concerning the Palpatine-father bullshit, I don't remember anything like that in the script.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-05-06 05:32pm

Elfdart wrote:Are the Playboy pictures canon?

I dout it.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2005-05-06 05:46pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Concerning the Palpatine-father bullshit, I don't remember anything like that in the script.

Wasn't there some first draft stuff of it or something? Palpatine also said Dooku arranged for the Tuskens to kill Shimi or something in said draft stuff, or did that turn out to be some April Fools?

Anyway, there's no way Palpatine could be Anakins father, because he doesn't yet know how to manipulate midichlorians into creating and sustaining life, he admits as much to Anakin when he joins him, the line is "but learning how to do so, would be a trivial matter, don't you agree?" Or something similar, from the novel. I'll have a look for the exact line.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-06 05:54pm

He could have a good reason for not sharing the info, the moment Anakin would learn something like that, Palps would be missing a head.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-06 06:01pm

Its too fucking contrived. Anakin's inability to handle tragedy and life becomes trivial if it was all just arranged. Anakin's character is much more deep when his personality flaws prevent him from dealing with real-life tragedy that is always going to happen, and he just can't cope. This way is shitty.

ithanir · Post by **ithanir** » 2005-05-06 06:35pm

The people at CHUD are apparently just idiots, or the story changed drastically from novel to movie. In the novelization Palpy doesn't even know how to create life from the midichlorians. He uses it to lure Anakin in, then later says (in reference to that ability)

"That power only my Master truly achieved, but together we will find it..."

So, apparently, the brilliant people at CHUD either missed that part, or the scene was cut from the film.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-06 06:40pm

Anakin's character is much more deep when his personality flaws prevent him from dealing with real-life tragedy that is always going to happen, and he just can't cope. This way is shitty.

Well, it´s hard to tell what´s real and what´s constructed when things seem to be presented so vague, either way, it´s Anakin´s own choices that shape his destiny, no matter how much manipulation is involved.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-05-07 12:31am

He says only his master achieved that power, but together they would discover it.

So he flat out can't do it, it is impossible for him to be such.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-05-07 12:54am

So...what you're all saying is, Anakin being born of immaculate conception is a MUCH better story point?

Give me a fucking break. Its REFRESHING that Palpatine created Anakin, instead of "The Force". This is perfectly explained in the novelization, when Yoda realizes he wasn't good enough to defeat the New Sith, and knew he never was. Because the Sith grew, and the Jedi did not in 1,000 years.

That's why Luke was successful in the ROTJ. He was allowed to grow up with an Aunt and Uncle, with people he cared about, instead of a sterile Jedi Academy, like a Borg, with emotions taught and not learned.

And that's why Anakin was unique. He grew up with a mother. And Palpatine used it to make Anakin the polar opposite of what Luke would become, and allowed him to grow up on a planet far away from Jedi influence. Qui Gon said in TPM that if Anakin grew up in the Republic, he would have been found earlier by the Jedi.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-07 06:34am

Note, alot of good debaters on other boards are refuting this claim, and it is believed to be a possible misinterpretation of dialogue. However, since I´ve yet to see the film, I can´t judge if there´s any subtext or not. Maybe we´ll just let this lie for now. In closing, I do think this would be a better plot-point than "The Force did it", and be quite an interesting idea, that the main villain trying to use an ancient prophecy to his own advantage, created the means to his own downfall.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-05-07 09:41am

So...what you're all saying is, Anakin being born of immaculate conception is a MUCH better story point?

Virgin birth, not immaculate conception. The latter refers to Mary being conceived without taint from the original sin. Although I highly doubt Shmi was a virgin when she conceived Anakin. I don't know what it would be called then...

Anyway, I just prefer to think that Shmi had some drunken encounter one night and forgot about it for whatever reason. It's impossible for Anakin to be male anyway with no father.