STGOD 4 OOC Thread (part 2)

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-11 02:03pm

Much as I hate to point this out, it was ruled that Laz could do it that way from cloak without being picked up.

If the tracking vessel is close enough to be burning through my ECM, he'll be close enough that active combat sensors will pick him up.

I recall that Laz was dealing with civilian ships, right?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-11 02:05pm

Thirdfain wrote:
Much as I hate to point this out, it was ruled that Laz could do it that way from cloak without being picked up.
If the tracking vessel is close enough to be burning through my ECM, he'll be close enough that active combat sensors will pick him up.

I recall that Laz was dealing with civilian ships, right?

No, he painted a destroyer, but decided not to fire on it.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-11 02:07pm

Was the destroyer actively fighting, with combat sensors engaged and searching (as mine would be in combat, especially now that we know the White Suns like cloaking tricks)?

If not...

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-11 02:27pm

Last time we had this much bickering during a major war, all the players quit.

Mabye we should take a recess from the STGOD.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-11 02:27pm

I think I'm not quitting, and I don't think anyone else is. I'm interested in keeping playing.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-11 02:29pm

i'll keep playing, but before I do, I'd like to work out the situation with the third fleet.

As before, i'm willing to lose some ships to the missile barrage, and let Rogue/frigid follow me, if i'm allowed to escape.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-11 02:37pm

sounds good.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-11 03:04pm

Somebody needs to make a decision about the battle.

Like I said, i'm willing to lose some ships, have others get damaged, and let Rogue follow me.

Is that ok with you rogue?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-11 03:18pm

Darksider wrote:Somebody needs to make a decision about the battle.

Like I said, i'm willing to lose some ships, have others get damaged, and let Rogue follow me.

Is that ok with you rogue?

The decision was made a page ago, or didn't you read Pablo's post? You can get away, but you lose some ships. I know where you went and can follow you if I so choose.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-11 03:24pm

Alright, I've edited.

Are you going to take over, or wait for Frigidmagi?
(Have you heard anything from him at all?)

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-11 03:41pm

In the first post where I described where they were waiting, i said they were in an uninhabited system outside the United protectorates borders, hiding behind a "Lifeless moon"

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-11 04:04pm

Bugsby wrote:Just an FYI on my Titans, and my capships in general.

I started out with WAY below the allotted number of capships, making my ships overpowered. Titans are each about 2.25 times as powerful as the standard DN. That breaks down into 1.25 times the standard armament yet with 3 lances, which are DN power in and of themselves. Meaning that if I get all 3 lances on a DN at point-blank, that DN is out of the fight. And then I can go up on another DN and still have a slight edge. I dearly loves me Titans, but I have so few!

And if you do the math, 9 Titans x 2.25 = 20.25. So the Aegis is about 5 times as powerful as any DN in the field, making it the biggest ship in the game. Just so everyone knows what they are up against when I talk about my cap ships.

You started out way below the allotted number because of that gigantic chunk o' cheese you call the Aegis. The Aegis was the benefit you got for trading in those capital ships, not the cheese DN in addition to other, slightly smaller cheese DNs. And I call foul on one-hitting other battleships and dreadnoughts. If we were allowed to make that trade, I'd think everyone would have made it. From here on out, I treat your ships as trading armor for weapons. Prepare to have them die in droves.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2004-09-11 04:16pm

One hitting a DN?

Even my fusion cannons can only one hit cruisers

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-11 04:23pm

Twenty minute minefield huh? That's what three M-80s and a cherry bomb?

Seriously, there's no way at all you could deploy 160,000 mines of any worth in the few minutes you'd have. Nor for that matter would you be able to predict the approach so accrurately at to be able to lay a minefield of worthwhile density before I approached.

And if you wish to assume you can mass huge numbers of fighter, fine. But they aren't going to count for that much.

PS: I jumped relatively far out, an planetary guns that have opened up are going to be useless at these ranges.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-11 04:27pm

Who opened up? I launched missiles. Fine, I'll scale back the minefield. I just dumped every mine in the magazines, but if you insist...

And sorry, but those are the same models of fighters I've got on my carriers, which have been ruled stronger than average because my carriers have so few of them. Think about it. How many fighter squadrons are there on Earth? Multiply that by 18. Concentrate on more important planets instead of spreading out evenly. This is a conservative way to do it, given my far greater industrial capacity and the fact that I'm on a war footing and depend heavily on fighters.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-11 04:29pm

Rogue 9 wrote:And I call foul on one-hitting other battleships and dreadnoughts. If we were allowed to make that trade, I'd think everyone would have made it. From here on out, I treat your ships as trading armor for weapons. Prepare to have them die in droves.

You don't get to make that call, Rogue. Now, as I said not four pages ago, I detest any weapons system that purports to give one side a massive N-Square Law advantage in just one volley. Let's say that a direct hit from the Lances of his DN will inflict severe damage on super-capital vessels, but not put them out of action.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-11 04:34pm

Rogue 9 wrote:You started out way below the allotted number because of that gigantic chunk o' cheese you call the Aegis. The Aegis was the benefit you got for trading in those capital ships, not the cheese DN in addition to other, slightly smaller cheese DNs. And I call foul on one-hitting other battleships and dreadnoughts. If we were allowed to make that trade, I'd think everyone would have made it. From here on out, I treat your ships as trading armor for weapons. Prepare to have them die in droves.

I've had this as policy since I first posted my OOB, so I'm kind of irritated that you are just bitching about it now. Look at the math. The number of DNs allowed per fleet was 25. I had 10 at the start. In effect, I don't have DNS, just a bunch of SDNs. Don't call em chunks-o-cheese. I sacrifice a lot in upkeep, prduction time, and mobility in battle. Each of my ships can only be in one place at a time, instead of spread out like everyone else's DNs. This has been WHAT I DO from Day 1 of the STGOD, and I frankly think the time for carping over OOB deatils is over. It's balanced, just skewed.

As for trading armor for weapons, those are my Lances-class cruisers. They are weak as hell, pretty much floating platforms for the Lance cannon. This is because I have the normal 75 cruiser-size ships. If I had much fewer, then Lances would be fully armored to compensate.

Finally, in terms of the destructive power of the Lance, that's been canon since Day 1 as well. These things are BIG. I sacrifice a lot to get these on my ships. Titans are big, but according to fleet math, they should have been a lot bigger. I scaled them down to mortal size to get the Lance on them. And in terms of one-hitting? Two things. First, a Lance can't one-hit a DN. It can one-hit a cruiser, just like Darksider's fusion cannons, and unlike Darksider, I can only fire them once per battle. The reason that these things have one-hit capability is they each have 3 lances on them. 3 cruiser-killing hits would probably take out a DN, or at least wound it enough to make it of minor concern in any fleet engagement.

The Aegis has no Lances, just insane weapons and armor.

Above I have given my justifications for strength of my weapons and capital ships. These are justifications that have held up for the entire STGOD. They have become canon, and received mod approval from Marcao, as well as tacit approval from every member of the game. Don't bitch now that I am turning my ships on you. THIS HAS BEEN IN MY OOB SINCE DAY 1.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-11 04:36pm

Bugsby wrote:The reason that these things have one-hit capability is they each have 3 lances on them. 3 cruiser-killing hits would probably take out a DN, or at least wound it enough to make it of minor concern in any fleet engagement.

Well, overall it does seem fair. And the Lances should get one-volley kills against Alyrium's ships, as they are rather weak.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-11 04:38pm

Yes, well I'm no big fan of having my battle fleets gutted in the first thirty seconds of the engagement. Kinda sucks, y'know?

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-11 04:41pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, well I'm no big fan of having my battle fleets gutted in the first thirty seconds of the engagement. Kinda sucks, y'know?

That's fair. That's why tactically I can only maximize effectiveness by getting into knife-fight range with these things, leaving my ships WAY exposed. Also, because it takes time to close distance (if I even can), it takes a long time before I can get a clean shot off. And remember, you get to call damage.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-11 04:45pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, well I'm no big fan of having my battle fleets gutted in the first thirty seconds of the engagement. Kinda sucks, y'know?

Judging by his definition of the lances, they aren't fired except at pointe blank range, because he can't afford to miss. You aren't going to lose ships to them right away as it will take time for him to eat up distance to the point where he can expect to hit with them. Moreover, you can be smart yourself and maneuver your ships to keep him at optimum engagement range for your ships, so that he never has opportunity to put them to use.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-11 04:46pm

Don't forget, Bugsby may have gone for Quality over Quantity for his capital ships, but he certainly went the other way for his carriers and their fighters.

I find it somewhat ironic that despite having some of the single-most powerful cruisers and capital ships in the game, the Krell apparently decided to use paper-mache fighters

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-11 04:50pm

Hotfoot wrote:Don't forget, Bugsby may have gone for Quality over Quantity for his capital ships, but he certainly went the other way for his carriers and their fighters.

I find it somewhat ironic that despite having some of the single-most powerful cruisers and capital ships in the game, the Krell apparently decided to use paper-mache fighters

By design. My entire navy is made to be balance of extremes. Look at my cruisers! The Wall has DN armor but frigate firepower while the Lance has DN firepower but frigate armor. My cap ships are uber, but my fighters die in one or two hits. Im the yin and yang fleet, baby.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-11 04:53pm

Rogue 9 wrote:And sorry, but those are the same models of fighters I've got on my carriers, which have been ruled stronger than average because my carriers have so few of them. Think about it. How many fighter squadrons are there on Earth? Multiply that by 18. Concentrate on more important planets instead of spreading out evenly. This is a conservative way to do it, given my far greater industrial capacity and the fact that I'm on a war footing and depend heavily on fighters.

There's some sort of obscure problem that prevents my browsers (tried it with IE and Firefox) the first page of the OOB thread, so I can't see if you placed these forces in your OOB or not. But I hope you declared them, because however much fixed defenses are assumed to exist and require no in-depth declaration, mobile forces organic to your home planets should definitely be declared. Otherwise, what's to stop people from abruptly declaring thousands of fighters they shouldn't have, just because they're in trouble with respect to fleet counts?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-11 04:55pm

They're declared, down under Nashtari Aerospace Force.