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Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-24 01:44pm
by Samuel
Bounty wrote:
Jon wrote:Given the upcoming comic prequel to the movie is 'Official' I wonder whether it will be considered canon to the film. The cover is interesting.

http://img.trekmovie.com/images/merchan ... down_b.jpg
If this is akin to the Transformers prequel - and given that Trek uses the same writers and same comic publisher, it looks like it - I doubt it'll be a seamless fit. The TF prequel comic shifted around bits of plot and backstory if memory serves.
Yes! If this works out the Trek forums will get a new leash on life :)

And then, once again, the Empire can crush them. But less effectively if they are updated to be smarter.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-24 01:45pm
by Bounty
It's a lease on life, and what makes you say that?

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-24 01:49pm
by Samuel
Bounty wrote:It's a lease on life, and what makes you say that?
I'm hoping they succeed, reboot the franchise and start up a new series. I'm being insanely optimistic.

With new stuff to work with, the forums will get more meat to deal with- as it is, we haven't had anything since Nemesis to chew over, unlike Star Wars, which has continued to spin off works for us to mock, enjoy and analyze.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-24 06:33pm
by Ender
Bubble Boy wrote: Yeah, I kept the definition limited to the idea of a helmet design which is what I'm talking about, so no fucking moron would bring something up like binoculars or telescopes. Because anyone with half a brain cell knows there's no valid comparison there. But perhaps I spoke too soon...
Negative ghost rider. Initially under discussion was any sort of visual enhancements. You set this up as both a moving the goalposts and a no true scotsman.
And you're a fucking idiot who seems to think driving a high speed vehicle with a pair of binoculars or telescopes strapped to your eyes is a great eye, because hey, it's not restricting one's vision to exactly the definition I submitted, right? :roll:
No, your definition was less a definition then you displaying how dishonest you are and committing 2 logical fallacies in one swoop. Nice job in reminding us all why you are a twit though.

And by the way, as for driving a vehicle at high speeds while wearing gear strapped to your eyes being a bad idea, funny enough that is SOP for night driving in the army. NVGs attach to the helmet and get dropped so the driver can see the terrain. Whoops.
See above. The moron here is you, unless you think you can drive with binoculars strapped to your eyes.
Image
Note NVGs, not in use due to it being daylight.

Image
"On the road again... I can't wait to get back on the road again..."

Youtube video from some marines who filmed it with a spare pair

Oh, and here is a study conducted on the safety of doing exactly what you are claiming no one would ever do.


Will there be any further bits of idiocy from you tonight?

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-24 07:39pm
by Singular Intellect
Ender wrote:Negative ghost rider. Initially under discussion was any sort of visual enhancements. You set this up as both a moving the goalposts and a no true scotsman.
Bullshit, fucktard. I don't give a rat's ass about supposed vision enhancements there's absolutely no proof of. My objection and point has consistently been about the handicapped nature of the helmet for normal vision.

Visual enhancements are great, and potentially quite useful (if they exist). Severely handicapping normal vision is not useful.
And you're a fucking idiot who seems to think driving a high speed vehicle with a pair of binoculars or telescopes strapped to your eyes is a great eye, because hey, it's not restricting one's vision to exactly the definition I submitted, right? :roll:
No, your definition was less a definition then you displaying how dishonest you are and committing 2 logical fallacies in one swoop. Nice job in reminding us all why you are a twit though.
Too bad you can't actually point out where I've been dishonest, and have to appeal to vague accusations of my doing so. Here's a thought: spell out exactly where I've been dishonest. I'll even help by restating my position: the helmet is a shit design because it severely hinders normal vision, and appealing to 'possible' technological enhancements does not refute this point.

By all means, quote me where I've made any other claim or point.

My point has consistently and repeatedly been that normal vision would be severely handicapped by the helmet design, and appeals to possible vision enhancement technology in play doesn't change that fact.
And by the way, as for driving a vehicle at high speeds while wearing gear strapped to your eyes being a bad idea, funny enough that is SOP for night driving in the army. NVGs attach to the helmet and get dropped so the driver can see the terrain. Whoops.
Holy fuck, thanks for demostrating even more stupidity on your part. NVG's are there for the purpose of enhancing vision because normal visual acuity is shit in the dark. That's not the case in broad daylight (you know, where our cop was), or on well lit streets and highways where stealth is not a concern and large vehicle mounted lights can be used instead of field of view restrictive goggles.
Note NVGs, not in use due to it being daylight.
Yeah, funny how they don't obstruct their normal vision by keeping them down, huh? Go figure!
Youtube video from some marines who filmed it with a spare pair[/url]

Oh, and here is a study conducted on the safety of doing exactly what you are claiming no one would ever do.

Will there be any further bits of idiocy from you tonight?
See above. You're just digging yourself into a deeper hole of stupidity and breaking quite an impressive sweat doing it.

The helmet in question is a shit design for normal vision, and no amount of crying about 'possible' technological vision enhancements will change that fact.

It should be incredibly obvious to anyone with half a brain that you never hinder normal visual ability if you can help it, unless normal vision is rendered useless or severely hampered by enviromental conditions anyhow (like darkness).

And since you brought up NVG's, read up on Panoramic Night Vision Goggles, and rack your brain on why the US military would bother to research them if your standard NVG's are just fine and dandy by your reasoning.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-24 08:13pm
by Batman
Bubble Boy wrote:
Batman wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote: Please, by all means, submit some examples of modern day visual enhancement helmets that reduce the wearer's natural vision to a narrow horizontal slit.
Please submit some examples of modern day visual enhancement helmets that do so while providing the same enhancements SciFi ones do.
You have the Burden of Proof, dipshit. You're the one taking the position that the helmet in question provides artificial visual acuity that renders normal vision useless, in your attempt to justify it's obvious negative impact upon normal vision.
Quite the contrary, actually. I merely offered a (quite handily supported by the genre incidentally) option for why the (never disputed BTW)
reduction in normal vision FoV would be a nonfactor. YOU are the one insisting that the enhanced visuals CANNOT be enough to compensate for the loss of natural vison FoV.
Furthermore I've made no assertion the helmet in question even has artificial feedback features in the first place, you have.
I did not such thing. I merely stated that SINCE such devices exist and IF the helmet incorporates those that this MIGHT explain why the reduced natural vision (which I never contended BTW) was a nonconcern.
My point is the helmet is badly designed for a human user, as it severely restricts normal vision.[/quote}
A point I never contended.
Show me the examples of modern day HUD gear that has access to SciFi sensor technology.
So I take this as a concession you are unable to submit an example of modern day head gear that reduces normal vision to the degree as demostrated in the trailer in order to justify 'enhancements'.
NVGs. Next.
Guess what...there's a reason we don't do this. Or are you so technologically uneducated you don't realize we can in fact today construct helmets that drastically reduce normal vision in order to display artificial feed?
We can do this, but we don't. Care to rack your brain and think of a reason why?
We most certainly DO. NVGs, the Apache's TADS/PNVS system...
The reason we DO is because IT'S WORTH IT. And that's with systems that DO considerably inhibit normal vision, when Trek has the technology to do all our modern day systems do and STILL give you the equivalent of uninhibited normal vision.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-24 08:48pm
by Batman
Bubble Boy wrote:
Ender wrote:Negative ghost rider. Initially under discussion was any sort of visual enhancements. You set this up as both a moving the goalposts and a no true scotsman.
Bullshit, fucktard. I don't give a rat's ass about supposed vision enhancements there's absolutely no proof of. My objection and point has consistently been about the handicapped nature of the helmet for normal vision.
AND NOBODY EVER DENIED THAT, DIPSHIT. That's WHY people kept offering OPTIONS for visual enhancements that might make the detriments to normal vision irrelevant.
Visual enhancements are great, and potentially quite useful (if they exist). Severely handicapping normal vision is not useful.
It also DOESN'T MATTER if they DO have those enhancements. Which Trek technology is easily capable of.
Here's a thought: spell out exactly where I've been dishonest. I'll even help by restating my position: the helmet is a shit design because it severely hinders normal vision, and appealing to 'possible' technological enhancements does not refute this point.
Nobody did claim the helm was a shitty design IF THEY WERE LIMITED TO NORMAL VISION. Alas, we know for a fact Trek isn't.
By all means, quote me where I've made any other claim or point.
You claim the helmet does NOT have any vision enhancements.
My point has consistently and repeatedly been that normal vision would be severely handicapped by the helmet design, and appeals to possible vision enhancement technology in play doesn't change that fact.
And nobody argued that. However since YOU are claiming the helmet CAN'T have that technology it is YOUR duty to show that it DOESN'T.
And by the way, as for driving a vehicle at high speeds while wearing gear strapped to your eyes being a bad idea, funny enough that is SOP for night driving in the army. NVGs attach to the helmet and get dropped so the driver can see the terrain. Whoops.
Holy fuck, thanks for demostrating even more stupidity on your part. NVG's are there for the purpose of enhancing vision because normal visual acuity is shit in the dark.
Thanks for admitting that we DO use vision-enhancement gear that DOES interfere with our FoV.
That's not the case in broad daylight (you know, where our cop was), or on well lit streets and highways where stealth is not a concern and large vehicle mounted lights can be used instead of field of view restrictive goggles.
This is relevant why?
The helmet in question is a shit design for normal vision, and no amount of crying about 'possible' technological vision enhancements will change that fact.
Since you have yet to show why they CAN'T compensate for that by making use of advanced technology when none of us has ever claimed the helmet ISN'T a shit design where normal vision is concerned that is, to put it simply, utterly irrelevant.
It should be incredibly obvious to anyone with half a brain that you never hinder normal visual ability if you can help it,
Yeah. Having technology that can give you tons more information than normal sight totally doesn't factor into it.
unless normal vision is rendered useless or severely hampered by enviromental conditions anyhow (like darkness).
With the technology available to Trek normal vision IS rendered useless.
And since you brought up NVG's, read up on Panoramic Night Vision Goggles, and rack your brain on why the US military would bother to research them if your standard NVG's are just fine and dandy by your reasoning.
Nice non-sequitur. The Us military manage to make do with the NVGs they have so they naturally have no interest in NVGs that would FIX some of the problems the current ones have (like the restricted FoV).

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-24 10:34pm
by Ender
Bubble Boy wrote: Bullshit, fucktard. I don't give a rat's ass about supposed vision enhancements there's absolutely no proof of. My objection and point has consistently been about the handicapped nature of the helmet for normal vision.
Funny how scrolling up shows the start of the conversation and this is not the case. You really have a problem with this whole "telling the truth" thing, don't you?

Too bad you can't actually point out where I've been dishonest, and have to appeal to vague accusations of my doing so. Here's a thought: spell out exactly where I've been dishonest. I'll even help by restating my position: the helmet is a shit design because it severely hinders normal vision, and appealing to 'possible' technological enhancements does not refute this point.

By all means, quote me where I've made any other claim or point.
Those would be the posts where you moved the goalposts and created a no-true -scotsman by limiting acceptable real life examples to having "a narrow horizontal slit". You are moving them again now, but at least you are moving them back to where they originally were.

My point has consistently and repeatedly been that normal vision would be severely handicapped by the helmet design, and appeals to possible vision enhancement technology in play doesn't change that fact.
Holy fuck, thanks for demostrating even more stupidity on your part. NVG's are there for the purpose of enhancing vision because normal visual acuity is shit in the dark. That's not the case in broad daylight (you know, where our cop was), or on well lit streets and highways where stealth is not a concern and large vehicle mounted lights can be used instead of field of view restrictive goggles.
Which is absolutely irrelevant, as they are still artificial enhancements that restrict the natural field of vision.
Yeah, funny how they don't obstruct their normal vision by keeping them down, huh? Go figure!
They are up in that picture. When pulled down they very much do restrict the field of vision, that is clear if you look at them, have worn them, and backed up by the study I linked to.
See above. You're just digging yourself into a deeper hole of stupidity and breaking quite an impressive sweat doing it.

The helmet in question is a shit design for normal vision, and no amount of crying about 'possible' technological vision enhancements will change that fact.

It should be incredibly obvious to anyone with half a brain that you never hinder normal visual ability if you can help it, unless normal vision is rendered useless or severely hampered by enviromental conditions anyhow (like darkness).
Argumentum ad nauseum. Try applying some facts. You asked for examples, they have been provided. You are yet to provide any sound reasoning contrary, and are instead just applying logical fallacies and lies.
And since you brought up NVG's, read up on Panoramic Night Vision Goggles, and rack your brain on why the US military would bother to research them if your standard NVG's are just fine and dandy by your reasoning.
The fact that we are seeking to improve the technology in no way invalidates them as an example of artificial enhancements that restrict natural field of vision.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-25 04:09pm
by McC
If you guys want to table this ridiculous contention for a moment, here's a little something that might be of interest.

Paramount releases another version of the trailer...this one has a surprise at the end.

Have a look. It's pretty sweet. 8)

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-25 05:20pm
by LMSx
I want to punch the kid in the beginning, not really because he's "rebel" or "badass", but because he's dumb enough to almost go sliding into the abyss. Although maybe a 200 foot drop off the cliff will beat a little of the stupid out of him.

New trailer: huh. Nimoy lends some gravitas to the end of the trailer.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-25 06:03pm
by Bounty
McC wrote:If you guys want to table this ridiculous contention for a moment, here's a little something that might be of interest.

Paramount releases another version of the trailer...this one has a surprise at the end.

Have a look. It's pretty sweet. 8)
Ooh, that's pretty cool. Obvious, but cool :mrgreen:

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-26 09:41am
by tim31
Spock finally gets old.

Wonder if the bendii syndrome is kicking in and that's why he decided to go on a gung-ho Kirk-style mission to save the future by changing the past.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-26 11:05am
by Darth Onasi
tim31 wrote:Spock finally gets old.

Wonder if the bendii syndrome is kicking in and that's why he decided to go on a gung-ho Kirk-style mission to save the future by changing the past.
Potential plot twist: Late in the movie Spock reveals the goatee he's been hiding, revealing that he is in fact Mirror Universe Spock who's come to the regular universe and gone back in time to turn Kirk into a complete asshole so he'll never sweet talk Mirror Spock into ending the Empire's tyranny and causing it's collapse!

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-27 07:10am
by Ezri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puXPozd-kuc

The official star trek XI trailer ...

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-11-30 08:23pm
by JME2
So, our first real look at Nimoy for this film. Very nice.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-01 10:20am
by McC
Ezri wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puXPozd-kuc

The official star trek XI trailer ...
Er, I already posted this four posts above yours, and in better quality.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-01 01:22pm
by dragon
NVG are just one of many HMD that are in use by the military that restricts normal vision inorder to give added benefits. Go watch an apache pilot use the new helmets. The one eye is covered and it projects a image onto the surface infront of his eyes which is overlaid with targeting dating and tons of other crap.
Helmet Mounted Displays (HMDs) are used to provide pilots with out-the-window capabilities for engaging tactical threats. The first modern system to be employed was the Apache Integrated Helmet Display Sighting System (IHADSS). Using an optical tracker and multiple sensors, the pilot is able to navigate and engage the enemy with his weapons systems cued by the HMD in day and night conditions. Over the next several years HMDs were tested on tactical jet aircraft. The tactical fighter environment - high G maneuvering and the possibility of ejection - created several problems regarding integration and head-borne weight. However, these problems were soon solved by American, British, Israeli, and Russian companies and are employed or in the process of employment aboard the respective countries' tactical aircraft. It is noteworthy that the current configuration employs both the Heads-Up Display (HUD) as well as the HMD. The new Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), however, will become the first tactical jet to employ only a HMD.
link

As for modern day tech which use a narrow vision slot.
see

pic

So since we can do some niffty stuff with our tech then by ST time they can do even more.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-01 01:36pm
by dragon
Ah heres a good example

Image

an integrated headgear is designed, providing the dismounted soldier with increased situational awareness. Kaiser Electro-Optics Inc, from the Rockwell Collins company has developed a compact, helmet mounted high resolution Super VGA display that can be integrated with standard hand held or wearable computers.

From
[url=http://www.defense-update.com/products/ ... h.htm\link[/url]

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-02 10:24pm
by JointStrikeFighter
Oh man:d SUPER VGA :d

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-03 02:25am
by Uraniun235
SVGA is pretty good for a display that tiny.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-05 05:39am
by Gandalf
McC wrote:If you guys want to table this ridiculous contention for a moment, here's a little something that might be of interest.

Paramount releases another version of the trailer...this one has a surprise at the end.

Have a look. It's pretty sweet. 8)
Is it just me, or are there more effects shots in that one?

Also, Spock looks old, much older than Sarek did at the end.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-05 06:11am
by Crazedwraith
Gandalf wrote: Also, Spock looks old, much older than Sarek did at the end.
So? Sarek died of Disease, not old age.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-05 06:58am
by Gandalf
Crazedwraith wrote:
Gandalf wrote: Also, Spock looks old, much older than Sarek did at the end.
So? Sarek died of Disease, not old age.
Sarek was just over 200 at the time of his death in 2369. This is based off his his being 102 in Journey to Babel, which is set in 2268. Spock was born in 2232. At the time of Nemesis 2379 he would have been almost 150.

So for Spock to be Sarek's age, this film would have to be set in the 2430's.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-05 08:00am
by tim31
Nimoy seems to have aged worse than Lenard did, but yeah, I agree Gandy. He definately looks creakier.

Re: The Star Trek trailer

Posted: 2008-12-05 09:16am
by open_sketchbook
Actually, they aged Nemoy for the role.