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SeeingRed wrote:I think that falls into the category of "problems we'd like to have". The question is, if things continue this way, will the Zune even be AROUND in 2 or 3 years? I doubt MS will be willing to sell the devices at a loss for that long, though I may be wrong (does Ballmer really want a piece of the iPod market that much?).

Given that Microsoft's estimates suggest that its X-Box division won't turn a profit in any of its first 7 years, I'm guessing they're willing to put up with quite a bit.

As for the Zune being a competitor to Apple, considering the advances that Apple has made in the iPod line recently, against the amount of time and hype that was directed towards the development and launch of the Zune, you'll forgive me if I along with many others choose to take MS' claims with a few grains of salt.

Fair enough, but I'm betting that the Zune will become a legitimate competitor for the iPod within the next few years.

And what advances has Apple made in the iPod line, recently?

Master of Ossus wrote:

Fair enough, but I'm betting that the Zune will become a legitimate competitor for the iPod within the next few years.

Not unless Microsoft manages to come up with an insanely better marketing scheme. Otherwise, well, I doubt it considering that there's already better, more established alternatives to the Zune out there already competing with Apple.

Master of Ossus wrote:And what advances has Apple made in the iPod line, recently?

I don't know what you mean by "recently", but, here goes:

Hardware: new iPod Nano and Shuffles, both of which have been very successful; addition of video to the iPod, which was similarly very well received when released. This is not to mention price reductions across the board for all of these devices.

Software: additions of first music videos and short films to the iTunes Store and then the addition of feature-length movies, which have been doing quite well; new and improved versions of the iTunes software that add nice features (i.e., better library views, better iPod management system).

I could probably go on, but you get the point. It seems to me that Apple along with most of its competitors are much more active in terms of consistently refreshing their product offerings with perhaps relatively incremental upgrades, but nevertheless ones that continue to keep their product line relevant. Microsoft, on the other hand, seems to be the type of company that will release a product, spend years promising massive upgrades and developing slightly less massive ones (meanwhile the product itself falls out of the front of most peoples' minds).

Zune is unsupported by Pasta.

Master of Ossus wrote:Fair enough, but I'm betting that the Zune will become a legitimate competitor for the iPod within the next few years.

I would like to take this bet. Let's say US$20?

How would you like to define "legitimate competitor" and "few years"?

Xisiqomelir wrote:Zune is unsupported by Pasta.

Pasta...? I didn't realize a media player needed to support rigatoni.

What kind of a name is 'Zune' anyway? I'm not opposed to a competitor to the iPod, but I want a better name for it. I'd take 'Supercool Funtime Device!' over Zune. Zune.

Remember, this is the company which came out with a UI by the name of Bob...

Xisiqomelir wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:Fair enough, but I'm betting that the Zune will become a legitimate competitor for the iPod within the next few years.

I would like to take this bet. Let's say US$20?

How would you like to define "legitimate competitor" and "few years"?

Three years, 20% marketshare.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Xisiqomelir wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:Fair enough, but I'm betting that the Zune will become a legitimate competitor for the iPod within the next few years.

I would like to take this bet. Let's say US$20?

How would you like to define "legitimate competitor" and "few years"?

Three years, 20% marketshare.

Done. Remind me in 2009 in case I forget.

Master of Ossus wrote:Three years, 20% marketshare.

That's not legitimately competing with the iPod: That's stealing marketshare from the companies that got duped on PlayForSure.

And what advances has Apple made in the iPod line, recently?

Better battery life, better screens, larger capacity, games, the new Nanos, the new Shuffles, lower price points ... you didn't know about this stuff?

General Zod wrote:Ever try getting music off of an iPod once you put it on? Huge pain in the ass. I like being able to transfer my files between machines as I want to while keeping the naming structures intact, and the M lets me do this with a simple drag & drop. Having to rely on a piece of bloatware (iTunes) to transfer files is annoying.

There's a great little app for OS X that reads the iPod database and mounts an NFS share that you can browse in your file browser, organized by playlist, artist and album. Plainly? It's awesome.

Not sure if there's an equivalent for Windows though.