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Bounty wrote:

I'm inclined to "blame ENT and move on".

Why? TOS hinted at half a dozen launchers spread around the ship.

When?

Also: (click to enlarge)



Not only does it look nothing like the two fore torpedo tubes, there doesn't appear to be a hole or anything there.

This could very easily be a case of a retcon.

Alyeska wrote:This could very easily be a case of a retcon.

A stupid retcon, because of a stupid show. We know what aft torps look like: exactly the same as forward torps, as on Miranda.

And pre-refit makes it worse, because I don't remember the model being that detailed. *I* thought they'd *already* used the structure over the shuttlebay doors as an aft *phaser*.

When?

Kirk, Journey to Babel wrote:On my order,
fire photon torpedoes 2, 4, and 6.

Not only does it look nothing like the two fore torpedo tubes, there doesn't appear to be a hole or anything there.

I'll grant you that it's a stretch, but the aft tubes doesn't have to look exactly like the forward ones, which included an airlock and a large manual loading bay. If the aft tube is a fully-automated, single-track launcher behind a retractable plate it can fit in there.

I assume I don't need to remind you that the large torpedo tube housings on the E-refit are the exception and that most ships' launchers are embedded in the hull?

And pre-refit makes it worse, because I don't remember the model being that detailed. *I* thought they'd *already* used the structure over the shuttlebay doors as an aft *phaser*.

You couldn't see where exactly the torpedo came from, but it looked like it came from the neck.

ETA: if you want to, we can start a topic in PST...

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

InnocentBystander wrote:To be honest, it doesn't look like that much of an improvement over Starfleet Command. I do like how they're trying to give wrath of khan style phasers on movie era ships. They obviously did a half-assed job, but its nice to know they didn't ignore it.

Can you elaborate on the half assed job? It looks pretty good to me, and in what aspects does it look like they didn't improve over SFC? Legacy for all its faults does look a lot better than SFC.

Its really not a huge issue, but I do find it important (moreso than I should). Basically the movie phasers are distinct little pulses. The video I watched showed a beam that sorta pulsed a little bit. They tried, I can tell, but it isn't there yet. Its one thing for the guys modding Bridge Commander to do it that way, but these guys made the game, I'd like it to feel right.

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

InnocentBystander wrote: I'd say this game is somewhere between Bridge Commander, and Starfleet Command; only with the nifty strategic view and more modern graphics.

You mean in terms of gameplay then, and not graphics...

Well, yes. I assume that graphics are a step up, though the video did not make it obvious just how much of a step up it is. The damage model looks pretty much like what we had in Bridge Commander, which is unfortunate. Is it so hard to make a ship look like a derelict? other than a ship with pasted on 'damage' holes?
As far as gameplay, its not bad but its pretty much Bridge Commander + SFC. I perfer my trek space games to have a third dimension, but I understand why they decided against it. 2D is just easier, unfortunate but thats life...

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

InnocentBystander wrote:I'm a fan of good trek space games, and this doesn't really do anything for me. I'd try it without paying for it, if it were available on the PC, but overall I'd say its a meh title. I've yet to see a game which can honestly re-create the fight from Wrath of Khan. Oh well.

It is available on the PC.

Oh, well then... I await the torrents.

Personally, I'm not going to get terribly worked up over "omg why can't the Enterprise-D let loose a swarm of torpedoes and phasers", because I haven't heard anything about the developers claiming to be making an accurate representation of the ships, unlike the slimy Bridge Commander developers who once claimed that they would not balance the ships, and then saddled the Ent-D with a piddling four fore torpedoes per volley (among other things).

Bounty wrote:

When?

Kirk, Journey to Babel wrote:On my order,
fire photon torpedoes 2, 4, and 6.

However - I don't remember which episode - but I recall the Enterprise firing a volley of six torpedoes forward once; so there could have been six single-shot tubes mounted facing forward.

I assume I don't need to remind you that the large torpedo tube housings on the E-refit are the exception and that most ships' launchers are embedded in the hull?

To me, it's mostly a matter of consistency; if there were an aft tube on the Ent-refit, it should look roughly the same as the fore tubes. Personally, I'm willing to accept one single-shot tube in the back of the Ent-refit neck, although I'd be willing to bet money that Andrew Probert would say that the only tubes on the Enterprise face forward.

Stark wrote:A stupid retcon, because of a stupid show. We know what aft torps look like: exactly the same as forward torps, as on Miranda.

Its possible that the rear torpedo launcher was deleted in the Refit for unknown reasons.

And pre-refit makes it worse, because I don't remember the model being that detailed. *I* thought they'd *already* used the structure over the shuttlebay doors as an aft *phaser*.

At least one of the torpedoes appeared to have come from the neck. That would make this a non-issue.

I got the impression from one of the movies that the circular docking port things doubled as torpedo launchers. Is such the case, and if so, does the game include side firing torpedoes? That'd be neat, if only because I've never seen it done before.

Docking points are not torpedo launchers.

Alyeska wrote:[At least one of the torpedoes appeared to have come from the neck. That would make this a non-issue.

From a model perspective, it's easier to talk about the less-detailed E-nil... but this is all hoop-jumping stimulated by poor research and a lamehole show that killed a franchise.

Alyeska wrote:Docking points are not torpedo launchers.

Didn't they use one as a launcher in one of the movies? I mean... it might have been for spok's body... but I could swear I have the image of a torpedo being fired from the side of the refitted ent.

InnocentBystander wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Docking points are not torpedo launchers.

Didn't they use one as a launcher in one of the movies? I mean... it might have been for spok's body... but I could swear I have the image of a torpedo being fired from the side of the refitted ent.

No, he was launched out of the starboard torpedo tube...

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

InnocentBystander wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Docking points are not torpedo launchers.

Didn't they use one as a launcher in one of the movies? I mean... it might have been for spok's body... but I could swear I have the image of a torpedo being fired from the side of the refitted ent.

No, he was launched out of the starboard torpedo tube...

So they do have tubes on the sides of the ship?

InnocentBystander wrote:
So they do have tubes on the sides of the ship?

No, the Constitution has two forward firing torpedo tubes. Spock was launched out of the starboard forward firing tube.

Its really not a huge issue, but I do find it important (moreso than I should). Basically the movie phasers are distinct little pulses. The video I watched showed a beam that sorta pulsed a little bit. They tried, I can tell, but it isn't there yet. Its one thing for the guys modding Bridge Commander to do it that way, but these guys made the game, I'd like it to feel right.

To be fair I was watching a larger version and in a larger video the pulses a rather more distinct. Though you're right in that they basically look to be a beam with moving gaps on the line. There does look to be some kind of distinct pulse weapon in there. I saw individual blue pulses getting tossed around by something.

brianeyci wrote:That looked really cool, but I can't get used to the idea of Warbirds being blown up by Akiras and Ambassadors, I'm sorry. Maybe it's just the Trekkie in me but when I saw the Galaxy going straight for the base and him moving in three ships to decoy for it, I thought, holy shit that Warbird is going to wipe the floor with all three of those junkers, and then the Warbird blows up after getting hit by a couple torpedoes, what the fuck. And maybe it was the video quality, but I didn't see nearly enough green pulses. The Warbirds seemed to just fly around taking potshots more than shooting back. And there wasn't nearly enough torpedoes, he fired maybe ten torpedoes with his Galaxy the whole mission.

They did mention it was on easy...

The game was fun using a 360 controller on a PC at E3, I'll probably get it eventually, but I doubt my PC could run it and I don't have a 360.

Just more eye candy...

IGN

Didn't see this earlier, how is the command interface setup for Legacy?

montypython wrote:Didn't see this earlier, how is the command interface setup for Legacy?

I have no idea. The game was shipped out to retail stores today, so we should start hearing things tomorrow night.

Are those videos as good as it gets? I gotta say I think it looks pretty awful from those shots. Hell, their torpedo effects are way worse than the ones I modded into SOTS, and their phaser effects are worse too. What's the gimmick for this game that I'm not seeing?

Covenant wrote:Are those videos as good as it gets? I gotta say I think it looks pretty awful from those shots. Hell, their torpedo effects are way worse than the ones I modded into SOTS, and their phaser effects are worse too. What's the gimmick for this game that I'm not seeing?

Do your torpedo effects model those effects off the TV series, and movies, or are they wanked out effects?

Kamakazie Sith wrote:

Covenant wrote:Are those videos as good as it gets? I gotta say I think it looks pretty awful from those shots. Hell, their torpedo effects are way worse than the ones I modded into SOTS, and their phaser effects are worse too. What's the gimmick for this game that I'm not seeing?

Do your torpedo effects model those effects off the TV series, and movies, or are they wanked out effects?

Movies and DS9 torps. The glittery ones with the spinny-shine kind of effect. I'll grab a screenie for you.



And here's a blue one:



The ones in the video seem way too thin to me compared to the glamour-shots of the movie torpedoes, which I felt were the most true to the supercampy feel of the show that I wanted to rip off.

Did you watch the videos? Or were you looking at screens?

Covenant wrote:I watched the videos. They didn't seem to wobble around and act as loopy enough, and they looked more like balls than I'd like. I want them to rocket out and then go in big long arcs when they miss, slamming into stuff and working at all sorts of crazy, stupid angles.

Hey, I watched a different movie with the fed torps and they looked a lot better. The green ones looked pretty awful, but the red ones look pretty decent. Not bad! Nevermind.