So, I finally tried out PS3

[Praxis]

The PS3 is technically the best gaming system on the market,

Speaking from a technical standpoint, the Gamecube was the best gaming system from the last gen.

That's actually kinda iffy...XBox had some more hardware capabilities on the GPU.

However, the XBox cost nearly $400 to produce, and GameCube's were selling at $200 at a profit, so it was clearly far better engineered if the performance was similar at half the cost.

[DPDarkPrimus]

The PS3 is technically the best gaming system on the market,

Speaking from a technical standpoint, the Gamecube was the best gaming system from the last gen.

No point having the technical ability when the performance isn't there to do it.

I think you meant to say lack of third-party support, because that's what killed the GC.

The Wii has quite healthy third-party support from the get-go.

[Resinence]

Nope I meant performance, as praxis mentioned the xbox had better capabilities. Not that I'm saying the gamecube sucked. Once you take into account the different architecture the gamecube came fairly close, but had a much more strict memory layout.

[Xisiqomelir]

You're so stupid it hurts.

Sorry Stark, but Sony's obviously basing their decision off the high PS2 component cable penetration in Japan, the #2 market and their home ground. It is a good decision, because the Japanese consumer gets to reuse their cables and the American consumer probably doesn't have an HDTV.

They'll most likely box component cables in with the hardware revision in 3 years time to coincide with American HDTV adoption going past 50%, so if this additional $20 purchase is such an absolute dealbreaker, you could always wait till then. Don't forget to write Sony and tell them you hate them, too.

[Edi]

You're so stupid it hurts.

Sorry Stark, but Sony's obviously basing their decision off the high PS2 component cable penetration in Japan, the #2 market and their home ground. It is a good decision, because the Japanese consumer gets to reuse their cables and the American consumer probably doesn't have an HDTV.

They'll most likely box component cables in with the hardware revision in 3 years time to coincide with American HDTV adoption going past 50%, so if this additional $20 purchase is such an absolute dealbreaker, you could always wait till then. Don't forget to write Sony and tell them you hate them, too.

Got to echo Stark and note that you're a stupid cunt. It's a fucking stupid decision to do things in one market on the basis of a completely different market that has a different fucking set of parameters. You adjust the products shipped to a specific market to the conditions of that market instead of expecting the foreign market to adapt to your home turf. That's so fucking basic it isn't even marketing 101 and you're a fucking imbecile for not understanding things that have been plainly written for you several times.

Moron.

Edi

[Zac Naloen]

Am I the only person who had Component cables come with his PS2?

[Ravencrow]

Yes, the ps2 comes with component cables. The PS3 however, does not come with component cables that work with HDTV (which is what the PS3 boasts to that it looks good with); it's sold separately, which is plainly stupid if you think about it. That's the issue here.

[Zac Naloen]

Yes, the ps2 comes with component cables. The PS3 however, does not come with component cables that work with HDTV (which is what the PS3 boasts to that it looks good with); it's sold separately, which is plainly stupid if you think about it. That's the issue here.

soo...

They 'approved' this 'decision' doubtless on arcane standarisation/HD ness, but you're seriously arguing it's okay and sweet that you can't get advertised performance out of the box because some people already had PS2 cables. You know, the PS2 cables most PS2 owners DON'T KNOW EXIST. But hey, you had some, so it's all sweet and not a big fat question mark AT ALL. Rolling Eyes

This is basically just bullshit?

Everyone who owns a PS2 has one of these component cables that are compatible with the PS3. All component cables can carry an HDTV signal from what i've read about them.

The only people who lose out are the ones who never owned a PS2 which is a very small portion of the gaming market IIRC.

Sure including one would make sense, but I can understand why Sony wouldn't see the need too, seeing as they are one of the most arrogant companies on the planet and assumes everyone owns their product.

[Mobius]

This is basically just bullshit?

Everyone who owns a PS2 has one of these component cables that are compatible with the PS3. All component cables can carry an HDTV signal from what i've read about them.

The only people who lose out are the ones who never owned a PS2 which is a very small portion of the gaming market IIRC.

Not in euroland:
Component had a degraded signal to accomodate major (i had component of the Playstation 1 but using it on the PS2 just put a green shitty stains on the screen..

[Zac Naloen]

Not in euroland:
Component had a degraded signal to accomodate major (i had component of the Playstation 1 but using it on the PS2 just put a green shitty stains on the screen..

Those the Ps1 components that had the little box on them?

The ps2 ones are just a cable that comes out of the back of a ps2 and into the tv.

[DaveJB]

Are you sure you're not mixing up component cables with composite cables? I've never heard of the PS2 including component cables, especially with most households only having SDTVs.

[Zac Naloen]

Are you sure you're not mixing up component cables with composite cables? I've never heard of the PS2 including component cables, especially with most households only having SDTVs.

yeh, i've done that before. it's entirely possible.

They look the same to me

[Max]

No scaler chip = no buy (for me), since my bravia isn't the latest model and doesn't do 1080p

[Losonti Tokash]

I can tell you my PS2 doesn't have component cables. The only piece of equipment I own with such a thing is my 360 which for some bizarre reason came with the damn things. I wonder why Microsoft thought including component cables with a console advertised for its HDTV ability would be a good idea.

[Mad]

Nope I meant performance, as praxis mentioned the xbox had better capabilities. Not that I'm saying the gamecube sucked. Once you take into account the different architecture the gamecube came fairly close, but had a much more strict memory layout.

Except the GameCube didn't have poor performance. You said "No point having the technical ability when the performance isn't there to do it." But the performance was there, as evidenced by the Resident Evil games as well as Twilight Princess.

My understanding, of course, is that the X-Box had more technical ability than the GameCube.

[Loner]

I can tell you my PS2 doesn't have component cables. The only piece of equipment I own with such a thing is my 360 which for some bizarre reason came with the damn things. I wonder why Microsoft thought including component cables with a console advertised for its HDTV ability would be a good idea.

They obviously love losing money. I mean including hi-def cables in the premium package is just asking to lose money.

[Hotfoot]

Anyone here beginning to wonder if Xis here is a Sony plant like the dozens of others they've put on the net?

The Xbox 360 came with cables that work on both regular and HD TVs, so that with very little effort (the flick of a switch and a few extra plugins) you can put the same machine on both types of TVs for very little effort.

Sony, who is bragging to have better graphics than the 360, refuses to add the basic part NEEDED to see those graphics, the cable to transmit the image to the television set.

Hey, Xisoldmiseol, how about a comparitive breakdown between the major consoles here?

Controllers:
Xbox - press two buttons to set up, one button to activate after that. Has rumble pack and a port to plug in headsets for online play.
Wii - Pretty much the same thing, but with internal speaker and motion sensing technology used in most (if not all) of the games released for it.
PS3 - No rumble, SixAxis technology is fluff, so far used to shake relentlessly until you stop being on fire in one game. Wireless controllers must be reinstalled every time the console is turned off by using a USB cable. EVERY TIME.

Graphics:
Xbox - Nominally 720 HD, still looks phenomenal when upscaled to 1080x HD. Upscales older games very nicely. Comes with what is needed to view said graphics.
Wii - not a contender, graphics-wise, but manages decent graphics.
PS3 - Has the hardware to marginally beat Xbox graphically, but completely fucks the execution by DOWNSCALING PS2 TITLES TO LOOK WORSE THAN THEY DID ON THE PS2, downscaling 720 HD games to look like ass, and oh yes, not including HD cables in either the "budget" or "deluxe" set. Let's not forget that the "budget" cannot ever be upgraded to be the equal of the "deluxe", like with the X-Box 360. Ever

Backwards compatability:
Xbox - Somewhat limited list, but due to the compatability being software instead of hardware, the list can (and has) increased over time to include more titles.
Wii - Unprecedented backwards compatability, though the prices you have to pay are a little silly. However, every Zelda, Metroid, Super Mario, and general 80's freak will soon have their favorite game series collected on one machine.
PS3 - Has hardware backwards compatability which means a wider selection of available games than the Xbox, but again it downscales older games to look worse than they did on the older machine, which makes it effectively worthless.

Price:
Xbox - $400 for the system worth a damn, but if you spend around $100 after getting the $300 system, you have effectively the same thing. Touch pricey, but such is the way of things.
Wii - $250, turning a profit on the hardware, and still out of stock damn near everywhere. Nintendo prints money. 'Nuff said.
PS3- Want to save money on the $500 system? Okay, but you will NEVER have HD, you can't trade in your hard drive, nothing. This leaves you with the $600 system as the only viable option if you want to take full advantage of the full HD richness that Sony promises for $200 dollars more than the Xbox 360. But wait, it doesn't end there. In order to actually SEE the HD richness, not only do you need the $600 system, but you need to buy a brand new HD cable. Seperate. But then you'll be able to see how much it kicks ass, really! Never mind the downscaling for existing PS2 AND PS3 games, it will be much, much better than the 360. Never mind that some games shared between both systems look better on the 360, it's just evil lies from Microsoft. You guys all still hate Microsoft, right? I mean, they're not Japanese! How could they make a good game console?

Now, while the 360 didn't come out on top on all of those, you'll see that the PS3 didn't come out on top on ANY of them. Out of fairness, I'm leaving game libraries out of it because as we all know, launch titles are not terribly indicative of any console's abilities.

In the interest of fairness, I will allow Xisukteenycox to respond with a reason for why it would be in anyone's best interest to get a PS3 for questionable HD graphics and middling innovation when, for almost the same price (after factoring in those highlarious HD cables sold seperately) one could get the known factor of Xbox 360 graphics (with existing library) and the super-cool innovation of the Wiimote and the fun as heck party games that come with the Wii, plus (naturally), the nostalgia of playing through all your old favorites from when you were a kid.

Go ahead. Take your time. God help you if your answer is "Final Fantasy".

[Vendetta]

Not in euroland:
Component had a degraded signal to accomodate major (i had component of the Playstation 1 but using it on the PS2 just put a green shitty stains on the screen..

I didn't know there even was a proper Y/Pb/Pr component cable for the PS1. If you had one and it arsed up on your PS2 then it wasn't a proper component signal, because that should be a standardised format.

Component wasn't common, and I don't know if Sony ever released an official PS2 component cable in Europe. I've got a third party one.

There's no "degraded performance" through it either, it gives the same kind of clarity I am used to from a compoenent connection. SCART cables will greenify your screen during DVD playback in RGB mode, but SCART is not Component, the signal quality is lower and it can't transmit a progressive scan image. But then SCART is evil.

[RogueIce]

Quick question, for those of us who don't have HD, and probably never will until the day the current set dies, if then.

How does not having an HDTV affect all these new HD consoles? I mean, obviously I won't be getting the super cool graphics out of it, but is it going to otherwise fuck things up, or will it be basically the same thing, just not as pretty?

[Shogoki]

Quick question, for those of us who don't have HD, and probably never will until the day the current set dies, if then.

How does not having an HDTV affect all these new HD consoles? I mean, obviously I won't be getting the super cool graphics out of it, but is it going to otherwise fuck things up, or will it be basically the same thing, just not as pretty?

Exactly the same thing just lower resolution, which is why a succesful move to HD formats is doubtful. Most people in the world don't even know or care what "resolution" means.

[Vendetta]

How does not having an HDTV affect all these new HD consoles? I mean, obviously I won't be getting the super cool graphics out of it, but is it going to otherwise fuck things up, or will it be basically the same thing, just not as pretty?

Turn the resolution down a couple of steps on your PC. Same deal.

Most people in the world don't even know or care what "resolution" means.

Hence why it's being packaged in a marketing friendly format, "HD" not "High Resolution". Note the use of initials rather than comperlicayted words like "resolution", and the fact that it has been spun into a funky logo.

[Drooling Iguana]

I had a fantastic time, and will absolutely get one after I settle in post-graduation.

Only one?

[Xisiqomelir]

Got to echo Stark and note that you're a stupid cunt. It's a fucking stupid decision to do things in one market on the basis of a completely different market that has a different fucking set of parameters. You adjust the products shipped to a specific market to the conditions of that market instead of expecting the foreign market to adapt to your home turf.

Thanks, was there anything else I already knew that you wanted to tell me? This decision takes all major regions into account.

Japanese consumers with HDTV: 65%
# with PS2 component cables: ~same
Do they need component in the box? No

American consumers with HDTV: 15%
Do they need component in the box? No

EU consumers with HDTV: 30% by 2010
Do they need component in the box? No

With no one actually owning HDTVs, why should Sony pack them in? Sure it would be nice, but it would be nice if Apple still packed as much in the iPod boxes as they used to. They're already losing enough on the PS3, so thinning the loss margin by not including component cables is a valid decision. The rationale is that early adopters either already have their own, or won't be put off by the lack. As I said before, I'd be surprised if the hardware revision came without component.

With so many legitimate criticisms against the PS3 (Price point and lack of controller-FF leaping to mind), why are you all harping on this, of all issues?

[Xisiqomelir]

Anyone here beginning to wonder if Xis here is a Sony plant like the dozens of others they've put on the net?

That's right, Ken Kutaragi paid me in PlayStation credit to lie in wait on SDN for 4 years so I could leap to Sony's defense.

I do wonder about you though. I wonder who the fuck you think you are to tell me how to spend my own money?

Let's go through your worthless post.

Hey, Xisoldmiseol, how about a comparitive breakdown between the major consoles here?

Do let's.

Controllers:
Xbox - press two buttons to set up, one button to activate after that. Has rumble pack and a port to plug in headsets for online play.
Wii - Pretty much the same thing, but with internal speaker and motion sensing technology used in most (if not all) of the games released for it.
PS3 - No rumble, SixAxis technology is fluff, so far used to shake relentlessly until you stop being on fire in one game. Wireless controllers must be reinstalled every time the console is turned off by using a USB cable. EVERY TIME.

So, Wiimote = best? Good thing I have a Wii

SIXAXIS isn't that great? I believe I mentioned no-FF in my OP. Good thing I'll be using this and not it for the majority of my game time.

Graphics:
Xbox - Nominally 720 HD, still looks phenomenal when upscaled to 1080x HD. Upscales older games very nicely. Comes with what is needed to view said graphics.
Wii - not a contender, graphics-wise, but manages decent graphics.
PS3 - Has the hardware to marginally beat Xbox graphically, but completely fucks the execution by DOWNSCALING PS2 TITLES TO LOOK WORSE THAN THEY DID ON THE PS2, downscaling 720 HD games to look like ass, and oh yes, not including HD cables in either the "budget" or "deluxe" set. Let's not forget that the "budget" cannot ever be upgraded to be the equal of the "deluxe", like with the X-Box 360. Ever

I have component cables fucker, can you read? Even if I didn't, buying them for $7 used or $15-20 retail wouldn't be an issue.

Also, since you brought it up, DR is 1080p. No 360 games currently are.

Backwards compatability:
Xbox - Somewhat limited list, but due to the compatability being software instead of hardware, the list can (and has) increased over time to include more titles.
Wii - Unprecedented backwards compatability, though the prices you have to pay are a little silly. However, every Zelda, Metroid, Super Mario, and general 80's freak will soon have their favorite game series collected on one machine.
PS3 - Has hardware backwards compatability which means a wider selection of available games than the Xbox, but again it downscales older games to look worse than they did on the older machine, which makes it effectively worthless.

Wow, Wii BC is the best! Good thing I have one.

If Sony amazingly decides to never update firmware to fix the BC jaggies, I have a PS2 to go with my PS2 component cables.

Price:
Xbox - $400 for the system worth a damn, but if you spend around $100 after getting the $300 system, you have effectively the same thing. Touch pricey, but such is the way of things.
Wii - $250, turning a profit on the hardware, and still out of stock damn near everywhere. Nintendo prints money. 'Nuff said.
PS3- Want to save money on the $500 system? Okay, but you will NEVER have HD, you can't trade in your hard drive, nothing. This leaves you with the $600 system as the only viable option if you want to take full advantage of the full HD richness that Sony promises for $200 dollars more than the Xbox 360. But wait, it doesn't end there. In order to actually SEE the HD richness, not only do you need the $600 system, but you need to buy a brand new HD cable. Seperate. But then you'll be able to see how much it kicks ass, really! Never mind the downscaling for existing PS2 AND PS3 games, it will be much, much better than the 360. Never mind that some games shared between both systems look better on the 360, it's just evil lies from Microsoft. You guys all still hate Microsoft, right? I mean, they're not Japanese! How could they make a good game console?

It's my money you stupid fuckwit, I'm going to spend it how I want to. What the hell is wrong with you?

Though I certainly don't need to justify my purchases to you, 360s are "cheaper" than PS3s the same way PCs are "cheaper" than Macs. Adding wireless networking ($100), HD movie playback ($200) and online play ($50/yr x 4=$200) to a 360 to bring it to feature parity with a PS3 (yes I want all those features), and puts it at a price $300 greater.

Now, while the 360 didn't come out on top on all of those, you'll see that the PS3 didn't come out on top on ANY of them. Out of fairness, I'm leaving game libraries out of it because as we all know, launch titles are not terribly indicative of any console's abilities.

Okay, let's do that. Then I won't have to explain to you that the 360's exclusives aren't in any way compelling to me.

[Xisiqomelir]

I had a fantastic time, and will absolutely get one after I settle in post-graduation.

Only one?

Haha, I'll see your PS3s and raise you some!