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Knife wrote:

FTeik wrote:Could it be, that the "flawed" design of the Empire on Palpatine's part is less a sign of arrogance or megalomania, but some kind of safety-measure? To create create conditions, where whoever succeeds Palpatine and/or Vader as Lord of the Sith has an easier job to get things under control instead of a republic with Jedi? It took thousand years for the Sith of Bane's order to usurp the power over the galaxy, Krayt's order needed less than twohundred.

Sure if you take it one step up into Fate, or the Living Force. Everything that happens laid the ground for Palpatine to fall. He was necessary to sweep away the corrupt republic, and he needed, in return, to be swept away.

Of cours the EU shits on all that but...

That is not, what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Palpatine designing his Empire in a way, that it can't survive without a Sith in charge. If the Sith are gone total chaos breaks out and whoever is touched by the DarkSide in the following decades to start the next incarnation of the Sith has an easier job because of the entire mess.

As for the rebellion winning by sheer efficency - that is ridicilous. They won, because Palpatine had designed his empire to crumble without. When he returned six years later it was THEM, who were put back to square one (or worse).

Thanks for the reply guys. One thing I always wondered was if Vader had used the force to find the rebels on Hoth. It seems that way from the movie. He looks at a video screen and magically knows that the rebels are there. Was Vader the only one looking for the rebels? I imagine the Empire was scouring the entire galaxy, but was he personally overseeing the search? Such centralization on a galactic scale can't be that effective. I'm not a Trek Fanboy, but some things that the Imperials do seem silly. Did some of the Emperor's arrogance rub off on Vader?

Emperor Overlord wrote:Thanks for the reply guys. One thing I always wondered was if Vader had used the force to find the rebels on Hoth. It seems that way from the movie. He looks at a video screen and magically knows that the rebels are there. Was Vader the only one looking for the rebels? I imagine the Empire was scouring the entire galaxy, but was he personally overseeing the search? Such centralization on a galactic scale can't be that effective. I'm not a Trek Fanboy, but some things that the Imperials do seem silly. Did some of the Emperor's arrogance rub off on Vader?

The Empire dispatched thousands upon thousands of probe droids to scour the galaxy for hidden Rebel installations. Presumably, Darth Vader's squadron was one of those tasked with overseeing the effort, and as its commander, the Sith was briefed whenever one of the probes that his star destroyers had released picked up something especially unusual. He simply identified the images from Hoth as being Rebel, either from experience with their methods, or by a Force-enhanced hunch. Either way, he didn't simply "look at a screen"; there was a massive effort required to uncover the location of the Alliance's headquarters.

Emperor Overlord wrote:Thanks for the reply guys. One thing I always wondered was if Vader had used the force to find the rebels on Hoth. It seems that way from the movie. He looks at a video screen and magically knows that the rebels are there. Was Vader the only one looking for the rebels? I imagine the Empire was scouring the entire galaxy, but was he personally overseeing the search? Such centralization on a galactic scale can't be that effective. I'm not a Trek Fanboy, but some things that the Imperials do seem silly. Did some of the Emperor's arrogance rub off on Vader?

Read the opening scrawl. Vader is looking for SKYWALKER to avenge the destruction of the Death Star, and I'm sure for the reason to know for sure who he really is. It says Vader is obsessed with finding SKYWALKER. So Vader is looking for Luke not just the Rebels. Other Imperial govenors are out trying to take action against the rebels in there juristicions. Vader's group is sort of a flying squadron that is out hunting down the leaders of the Alliance.

Darth Fanboy wrote:

Darth Wong wrote: Without him, it was bound to fall apart.

I believe that was the Emperor's intent though, so that no one else would rule the Empire that he built.

Don't the prequels heavily imply that Palpatine intended for his Empire to become a Sith dynasty? As such, wouldn't that make Darth Vader his heir?

I know about all the probe droids. But all he saw on the video that the droid on Hoth sent back was the shield generator, which may have been suspicious in of itself, but was that it? It really seems like he uses the force and that is why he is so certain. He never seems to doubt for a second what he is seeing. That's why the Imps are skeptical of his methods, because they aren't force-sensitive.

Galvatron wrote:

Darth Fanboy wrote:

Darth Wong wrote: Without him, it was bound to fall apart.

I believe that was the Emperor's intent though, so that no one else would rule the Empire that he built.

Don't the prequels heavily imply that Palpatine intended for his Empire to become a Sith dynasty? As such, wouldn't that make Darth Vader his heir?

Not legally, and especially not before he was on death's doorstep. Making it effortless for your heir to assume your authority before you're dying is like asking to be assassinated.

Furthermore, that was before Palpatine discovered how to transfer his life essence from Jedi holocrons and Ashka Boda. After that he just wanted Vader's (or Luke's) power to bolster and butress his own. Discovering a road to immortality would change most people's plans, wouldn't you think?

I should have added "convoluted EU-derived explanations notwithstanding."

Galvatron wrote:I should have added "convoluted EU-derived explanations notwithstanding."

Its not impossible to reconcile the two. Before the Jedi Purge, Palpatine was just another in a long line of Sith, working in secret for the eventual rebirth of the Sith Dynasty. However, when he at last succeeded where dozens before him had failed, and found himself at the head of the most powerful state in the Galaxy's history, his goals may have changed. In his mind, he became the Sith; the perpetuation of the Dark Order meant the preservation of his own life.

The Empire didn't work without Palpatine becuase he kept people in line with fear. He is gone. Vader is gone. No creepy Sith to fear. They are gone. Without a strong leader to control the various ambitious politicians, technocrats, etc. they fought amongst each other and screwed themselves over rather than unite against the Rebellion and blow it up.

Darth Tater wrote:The Empire didn't work without Palpatine becuase he kept people in line with fear. He is gone. Vader is gone. No creepy Sith to fear. They are gone. Without a strong leader to control the various ambitious politicians, technocrats, etc. they fought amongst each other and screwed themselves over rather than unite against the Rebellion and blow it up.

The average person, or even member of government, didnt know Palpatine was a Sith, and most probably wouldnt even know what it meant if they found out.

Emperor Overlord wrote:But all he saw on the video that the droid on Hoth sent back was the shield generator, which may have been suspicious in of itself, but was that it?

For all we know it's a particular design used by the Rebels. After all, compare it to the shield generator design at Endor - Vader may simply have recognised it from previous Rebel operations.

As for the Battle of Endor, I wonder whether Palpatine really did come up with the entire plan himself. Given his overconfidence it'd be easy to see him saying "we don't need 200 ISDs Grand Admiral, the local squadrons will be enough. Now ready my shuttle: I'm going there to oversee the Rebellion's defeat - no buts, or heads will roll."

Noble Ire wrote:Having Darth Vader with him at the battle was another severe error in judgement, but it is symptomatic of an even greater failing. By the time of ROTJ, Palpatine had constructed his empire entirely around the concept that he and he alone would be its sole ruler, perhaps, if one considers sources like Dark Empire, for all time. He made no effort to put in place a codifed system of succession in the case of his death, and he groomed Lord Vader more as a thug than a potential ruler (a point which was eventually moot, anyways).

That a failing if you're interested in creating a Thousand Year Reich, but not if you personally want to hold onto power. Just like Hitler, Palpatine's power seems to have stemmed both from his Sith abilities (or in Hitler's case his magnetic personality) and the fact that there was never a clear succesor to him. Between Bormann, Himmler, Goering, the agencies they controlled and various other factions no-one was ever going to maneuvre themselves into a strong enough position to challenge him.