StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Vendetta wrote:

Stark wrote: So everyone who doesn't want a 360 is a 'dribbling idiot fanboy'? Riiiiiiiight.

No, but Xisiqomelir is, as evidenced by every single post he has ever made about the PS3 and Xbox 360. Which was my point.

I'm sorry, but your bitter tears aren't going to sell more 360s in Japan. Or is every single Japanese consumer also a 'dribbling idiot fanboy'?

Xisiqomelir wrote:I'm sorry, but your bitter tears aren't going to sell more 360s in Japan. Or is every single Japanese consumer also a 'dribbling idiot fanboy'?

Maybe I'm being too subtle for you?

I wasn't drawing any conclusions about the reasons why the nation of Japan may or may not want an Xbox, I was calling you a dribbling idiot fanboy, based on your posting history here and the content of your OP. Maybe the fact that my post contained actual original words written by me and not just a copypasta article confused you somewhat? I know you're not used to that kind of thing...

SPC Brungardt wrote:An ad campaign with a stupid message kicked off BECAUSE X360's still got no traction.

You're not very literate, are you?

There's no reason to think the previous ones were much better.

Seggybop wrote:

Sharp-kun wrote:

Xisiqomelir wrote: Wholesome gameplay like this will surely improve the console's reputation

Suddenly 360 is more appealing...

sekuhara lawlz
So is this actually coming out in America?

I hope... hopefully they'll add in some Hentai J-Sims as well

Xisiqomelir wrote:I'm sorry, but your bitter tears aren't going to sell more 360s in Japan. Or is every single Japanese consumer also a 'dribbling idiot fanboy'?

Japan has a LONG history of refusing to buy products from America on a broad scale. To ignore this, especially on the electronics level, is the height of idiocy, which of course is a summit you've already reached.

Are you seriously going to make the argument that the 360 is a horrible product because it's not selling well in Japan, while ignoring that it's selling extremely well in the US and Europe? Of course you are, because you're just that fucking stupid.

Are you maybe going to AGAIN claim that you're not biased because you favor the Wii, which in almost EVERY thread you've made has been a non-factor since you focus the main subject of the thread on the competition between Sony and Microsoft, without even a mention of Nintendo until you use it as a defense to deflect your opponents when they accuse you of being biased.

I mean seriously, how does this work in your mind? This is like me saying "I'm not biased against Windows! I have a *nix Machine!"

Yes, the Wii is the most popular of the consoles, and for various reasons, however, while it is in competition with the 360, there are significant differences in the targeted demographic for each. The 360 and the PS3 are far more direct competitors, while Nintendo shifted to target an entirely different demographic in addition to their usual customers. It's worked out marvelously for them so far too, which is good, because the Gamecube was not that strong a contender in the last round, but again, the people that would buy a Wii might not buy the 360 or PS3, and vice versa. There is a lot of overlap (and the price sure as hell doesn't hurt), but if you forced people to choose, there would still be plenty of units of 360 and Wii sold (as is the case right now), however, when you make people choose between 360 and PS3, one side is going to be left in the dust, again, as is the case. The fact that the Japanese market is different means there is another factor at work. Part of it is that the Japanese gaming market contains games that would not be big sellers in EU/US markets, but part of it (and a big part at that) is fierce brand loyalty to national brands.

So yes, the short of it is that a large number of Japanese consumers ARE dribbling idiot fanboys. If you've got a better term for someone who refuses to buy something that fills a need simply because it was built by an American company, please, do tell.

And yes, the ad campaign is fucking retarded. However, you have now made a claim: That the 360 is a terrible system. I would like you to provide proof to support that statement. Note that this claim indicates that the SYSTEM is flawed and the product itself is bad, not anything about the company or the marketing for it.

Hotfoot wrote:Japan has a LONG history of refusing to buy products from America on a broad scale.

They also have a games industry which is the model of consumer conservatism. You only have to look at their top twenty sellers to see six Pokemon titles, four Mario titles, and four Dragon Quest titles, and the only publishers in the top 20 are Nintendo and Square-Enix (albeit the latter two in their separate guises). The nation of Japan primarily wants the same thing it has had all along, just sligtly updated.

Pretty much the only way you could sell Xboxes in Japan is if Dragon Quest was an exclusive title for it (and even then you might have to stick a Nintendo logo on it).

Vendetta wrote:They also have a games industry which is the model of consumer conservatism. You only have to look at their top twenty sellers to see six Pokemon titles, four Mario titles, and four Dragon Quest titles, and the only publishers in the top 20 are Nintendo and Square-Enix (albeit the latter two in their separate guises). The nation of Japan primarily wants the same thing it has had all along, just sligtly updated.

Where are these fantasy charts?

MC last week:

01. (PS2, Sega) J-League Pro Soccer 5 - 107,073 / 107,073
02. (NDS, Marvelous Interactive) Harvest Moon: The Island I Grew Up On - 79,408 / 79,408
03. (NDS, Square-Enix) Dragon Quest Monsters Joker - 57,132 / 1,083,832
04. (PS2, Capcom) Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - 49,333 / 276,594
05. (WII, Nintendo) Wii Sports - 48,236 / 958,658
06. (WII, Nintendo) Wii Play - 34,918 / 843,343
07. (NDS, Nintendo) More Brain Age - 28,605 / 3,930,911
08. (NDS, Nintendo) New Super Mario Bros. - 27,327 / 4,089,052
09. (NDS, Nintendo) Hotel Dusk: Room 215 - 25,830 / 85,208
10. (NDS, Nintendo) Common Knowledge Training - 24,819 / 1,185,307

11. (NDS, Nintendo) Animal Crossing Wild World
12. (PS2, Bandai-Namco) Saint Seiya: The Hades
13. (NDS, Nintendo) Picross DS
14. (NDS, Nintendo) Wario: Master of Disguise
15. (NDS, Nintendo) Mario Kart DS
16. (NDS, Sega) Sangokushi Taisen DS
17. (NDS, Pokemon) Pokemon Diamond
18. (NDS, Nintendo) Brain Age
19. (NDS, Nintendo) English Training
20. (NDS, IE Institute) Kanji Brain Test 2M
21. (NDS, Pokemon) Pokemon Pearl
22. (PS2, Hackberry) Pachinko Winter Sonata
23. (NDS, Spike) IQ Supply
24. (PSP, Capcom) Monster Hunter Portable
25. (NDS, Rocket Co.) Kanji Test
26. (NDS, Bandai-Namco) Heisei Kyouiku Inkai DS
27. (NDS, Sega) Love+Berry
28. (WII, Nintendo) Wario Ware Smooth Moves
29. (NDS, Nintendo) Kirby Squeek Squad
30. (NDS, Nintendo) 1000 Recipes

MC week before last:

01. (PS2, Capcom) Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - 227,261 / 227,261
02. (NDS, Square-Enix) Dragon Quest Monsters Joker - 103,706 / 1,026,700
03. (NDS, Sega) Sangokushi Taisen DS - 77,229 / 77,229
04. (NDS, Nintendo) Picross DS - 71,794 / 71,794
05. (NDS, Nintendo) Hotel Dusk: Room 215 - 59,379 / 59,379
06. (WII, Nintendo) Wii Sports - 58,886 / 910,422
07. (NDS, Nintendo) Wario: Master of Disguise - 47,350 / 138,599
08. (WII, Nintendo) Wii Play - 43,612 / 808,425
09. (PS2, Hackberry) Pachinko Winter Sonata - 41,411 / 41,411
10. (NDS, Nintendo) More Brain Age - 34,028 / 3,902,307

11. (NDS, Nintendo) New Super Mario Bros.
12. (NDS, Nintendo) Common Knowledge Training
13. (NDS, Nintendo) Animal Crossing Wild World
14. (PS2, Konami) Prince of Tennis: Doki-Doki Survival
15. (360, Bandai-Namco) The Idolm@ster
16. (NDS, Nintendo) Mario Kart DS
17. (NDS, Pokemon) Pokemon Diamond
18. (NDS, Nintendo) English Training
19. (NDS, Nintendo) Brain Age
20. (PS2, Sega) Shining Force EXA
21. (NDS, Spike) IQ Supply
22. (NDS, Pokemon) Pokemon Pearl
23. (NDS, IE Institute) Kanji Brain Test 2M
24. (PSP, Konami) Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops
25. (PS2, Bandai-Namco) .hack//G.U. Vol. 3
26. (NDS, Nintendo) 1000 Recipes
27. (WII, Nintendo) Wario Ware Smooth Moves
28. (PSP, Capcom) Monster Hunter Portable
29. (PS3, From Software) Enchanted Arms
30. (PS2, Flight-Plan) Dragon Shadow Spell

Vendetta wrote:No, but Xisiqomelir is, as evidenced by every single post he has ever made about the PS3 and Xbox 360. Which was my point.

Oh. Well, damn straight. I didn't realise he was trying to say the 360 sucked just because the Japanese don't buy it... I guess my shit filters are on too high.

Stark wrote:

Vendetta wrote:No, but Xisiqomelir is, as evidenced by every single post he has ever made about the PS3 and Xbox 360. Which was my point.

Oh. Well, damn straight. I didn't realise he was trying to say the 360 sucked just because the Japanese don't buy it... I guess my shit filters are on too high.

I wouldn't make that assertion, it confuses cause and effect. The Japanese don't consider it worth buying, so they don't.

Xisiqomelir wrote:I wouldn't make that assertion, it confuses cause and effect. The Japanese don't consider it worth buying, so they don't.

Except you HAVE made the assertation that the X360 is a terrible product.

Come now, it's not kind to ignore someone when they're asking you provide evidence for an assertation.

Xisiqomelir wrote:

Vendetta wrote:They also have a games industry which is the model of consumer conservatism. You only have to look at their top twenty sellers to see six Pokemon titles, four Mario titles, and four Dragon Quest titles, and the only publishers in the top 20 are Nintendo and Square-Enix (albeit the latter two in their separate guises). The nation of Japan primarily wants the same thing it has had all along, just sligtly updated.

Where are these fantasy charts?

Most likely he was referring to the all time best seller list.

Or did the fact that multiple listings for the same franchise might mean time was a factor escape you? Never mind that using the historical totals would be much more applicable to the debate at hand than the weekly charts you threw up, apparently just to be a douche. If you look at the chart you will see he is right, with the exception of one Capcom title sneaking into the top twenty. However, they are also a Japanese developer so their inclusion is hardly damning to the claim that the Japanese Best Seller list is surprisingly homogeneous.

Hotfoot wrote:

Xisiqomelir wrote:I wouldn't make that assertion, it confuses cause and effect. The Japanese don't consider it worth buying, so they don't.

Except you HAVE made the assertation that the X360 is a terrible product.

My reason for that isn't "because the Japanese said so".

Hotfoot wrote:Come now, it's not kind to ignore someone when they're asking you provide evidence for an assertation.

Dealbreakers:

-It's a Microsoft product
-The number of exclusives I consider must-haves is low (2, Gears of War and Viva Piñata). Might go up to 3 with Mass Effect.
-Lack of real support from any Japanese developer save Capcom
-Dashboard media streaming is Windows-only, non-proprietary media playback format list is small

Niggles:
-Drive noise
-Hardware failure (would be a dealbreaker, but the warranty became acceptably long)
-Lack of built-in wireless, HDMI, HD movie playback
-Non-free online

UCBooties wrote:

Xisiqomelir wrote:

Vendetta wrote:They also have a games industry which is the model of consumer conservatism. You only have to look at their top twenty sellers to see six Pokemon titles, four Mario titles, and four Dragon Quest titles, and the only publishers in the top 20 are Nintendo and Square-Enix (albeit the latter two in their separate guises). The nation of Japan primarily wants the same thing it has had all along, just sligtly updated.

Where are these fantasy charts?

Most likely he was referring to the all time best seller list.


Or did the fact that multiple listings for the same franchise might mean time was a factor escape you? Never mind that using the historical totals would be much more applicable to the debate at hand than the weekly charts you threw up, apparently just to be a douche. If you look at the chart you will see he is right, with the exception of one Capcom title sneaking into the top twenty.

Obviously, you are correct. An all-time top 20 list with 18 titles on discontinued systems is more relevant to the present day than the last two weeks' charts. How foolish of me.

UCBooties wrote:However, they are also a Japanese developer so their inclusion is hardly damning to the claim that the Japanese Best Seller list is surprisingly homogeneous.

American charts = 100% diversity, confirmed. Or not.

As an aside, how about you use an up-to-date source like this one, instead of something last updated in 2004? This has the added advantage (for you) of actually being 100% Nintendo + Squeenix, so you don't need to spin away Super Famicom SFII.

Xisiqomelir wrote:Dealbreakers:

-It's a Microsoft product

Hardly an objective criticism of the product, you fucking moron. You should know this. Should, of course, being the objective term. You should be fucking ashamed for even INCLUDING this as a point, much less making it your first one.

The number of exclusives I consider must-haves is low (2, Gears of War and Viva Piñata). Might go up to 3 with Mass Effect.

This is subjective on your part. Several other exclusive games have been selling very well and recieved well by critics and fans.

-Lack of real support from any Japanese developer save Capcom

Gee, I wonder why this might have been? Brand loyalty to national brands perhaps? This point IS based on "LOLZORZ JAPAN H8S IT SO IT MUST SUCK!". You fail. Again.

-Dashboard media streaming is Windows-only, non-proprietary media playback format list is small

...and? So? Because? This is a gaming console: media playback is, at best, a secondary concern. The fact that it can link up with computers on the same network at all is no mean feat. That it should be windows-based shouldn't really come as a surprise. How this is a dealbreaker is beyond me, but then so is your level of idiocy.

Niggles:
-Drive noise

Maybe my hearing's going, but this has never been a problem for me.

-Hardware failure (would be a dealbreaker, but the warranty became acceptably long)

That is an issue, but the rate of failure has always seemed to me to be acceptably low. However, I lack numbers. Do you have them?

-Lack of built-in wireless, HDMI, HD movie playback

The included composite cable is more than sufficient for HD playback, and has the added benefit for working for both normal AND HD TVs. HD movies have yet to come into their own as an actual market, since demand is not yet reached the point for it to be a realistic factor. We've been over the wireless before, and while it is a small oversight, it hardly prevents you from using the system as intended. I've always seen wireless as being more important for units that move around constantly, rather than stationary units, but that's me.

-Non-free online

It should be noted that basic online service (gamerscore/tag, critical updating) is free, but premium access is not. While this can be somewhat detrimental, but if you're not going to play online anyway (playing only RPGs, fighting games, party games, etc), you don't need it. Of course, the cost of said online service is reasonable.

However, I don't see ANY reason as to why this is a TERRIBLE product as you claimed earlier. At most, it's undesirable to you. Technically, it works, works reasonably well, and has a good selection of games (Sorry, you don't get to completely ignore good games that you don't like).

Moreover, the fact that your VERY FIRST POINT was your incessant hatred of Microsoft, I'm going to go with my initial assessment, you're a rabid drooling fanboy.

Seriously, the most serious points you have are under your "niggles" catagory. That's not a good position.

Xissy, just give up and conceed the point that you're making judgements based on irrationality. We won't judge if that irrationality is spurned buy Sony money paying your bills, honest.

I mean, seriously, we all dislike Microsoft on some level, and they've been involved in some shadey practices, but when you hit the point where you reject a product SIMPLY because it was created by Microsoft without judging it objectively, you've gone off the deep end.

I look forward to your next thread where you post some stupid new story, make some snide comments, angrily respond to your detractors for a handful of pages, then run off with your tail between your legs after everyone has had their turn spanking your ass so hard you can't feel your lost dualshock anymore.

Just remember, if you never respond, we'll obviously forget about the WHOLE THING next time.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Highly unlikely. It just came out in Japan. Plus there's never really been a mainstream commercial market for J-sims in the US.

sold out everywhere in Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka as where Blue Dragon, Lost Planet and Gears of war(well i think this one is more due to the faint number ordered), the laox Akihabara was even out of 360

-Lack of real support from any Japanese developer save Capcom

you mean apart from Square Enix (Project Sylpheed), Tecmo/team Ninja (DOA, Ninja Gaiden, Sega (VF4, Chromehounds), Capcom (RE5) and some more minor developers like Sandlot (freaking Earth Defense Force dude) or Grev (Senko no Ronde)
I bought the console last week for 59,000 yens with five games, the console is cheap as hell here.
And finally the 360 games seems to score better saleswise than the PS3 even if the user based is smaller.

Vendetta wrote:

Hotfoot wrote:Japan has a LONG history of refusing to buy products from America on a broad scale.

They also have a games industry which is the model of consumer conservatism. You only have to look at their top twenty sellers to see six Pokemon titles, four Mario titles, and four Dragon Quest titles, and the only publishers in the top 20 are Nintendo and Square-Enix (albeit the latter two in their separate guises). The nation of Japan primarily wants the same thing it has had all along, just sligtly updated.

Pretty much the only way you could sell Xboxes in Japan is if Dragon Quest was an exclusive title for it (and even then you might have to stick a Nintendo logo on it).

Yes, the Japanese are completely anti-American, and their rejection of the Xbox has nothing to do with the total lack of relevant titles to their consumer interests. Face it, MS is just out of touch with Japan and most of Asia, and so the Xbox brand is crashing and burning. Too bad the Wii is such an amazing little console that not even the Sony fanboys can bring the PS3 to compete with it.

I don't get why people even care. You've got an Xbox and MS are expected to make a loss on the whole thing for some time yet, which they can take anyway, so why the fuss? If they can't appeal to the Japanese market, it's because they've got nothing to sell to them and not simply because all Japanese are nationalistic fucktards who won't touch anything not Made in Japan.

But of course, keep thinking it's some evil conspiracy by Japanese gamers to squash the American heathen console empire, rather than them not offering something the public wants.

hum that article is one year old, situation has changed a lot since that time...

Mobius wrote:hum that article is one year old, situation has changed a lot since that time...

Because now the Japanese are rampant ideologists for their own national cause against American electronics, *I'm a smarmy asshole*? The point is the same. The US made console happens to not have the support the other consoles have and is floundering, which is snowballing the effect as less people want to invest in something that is only going to be a loss. The PS3 just edging out is likely because of the games behind it and that they come out earlier in Japan anyway. It's not like the Xbox was a raving success in Europe either, so unsurprisingly, the US is where the bulk of the sales went.

Personally, I'm trying to give a shit either way, I just dislike the "ZOMG! Jap nationalist parteh conspiracy1!" bullshit pulled.

Yes, this does explain why the 360 is crashing and burning, once you throw in the lack of game genres that have done well in Japan. Where's the party games, the kooky wierdness, the RPGs with spiky hair?

360 aimed itself at 'hardcore gamers' and the frat-boy demagraphic; fine if you want to sell in the US, but it's not gonna net you Japan. Of course, when this fails, you should just screech it's nationalism. 'Cause it can't be anything else.

This situation between the PS3 and 360, seems similar to the Sega Saturn. The Console flopped in the USA for a variety of reasons; poor marketing, availability, cost, but most of all the lack of games supported in the USA. The Saturn in Japan sold very well and had a large variety of games...that just never appeared in other markets.

The Xbox 360 seems to be having the same problem in Japan, but is also having trouble wrangling developer support to make games that would appeal to the Japanese consumer.

Tahts just my limited observation.

The N64 had a similar tale and wasn't much of a raving success in its homeland anymore than it was in the US or EU. That the Xbox systems aren't doing well is telling of their game support, not their origin. I don't expect anyone should be told to buy a console they don't see any use for, no matter how amazing the games might be to another demographic. Afterall, one could say the Americans are the same because they don't rabidly buy up J-pop albums rather than their own selection of crappy pop songs.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:The N64 had a similar tale and wasn't much of a raving success in its homeland anymore than it was in the US or EU. That the Xbox systems aren't doing well is telling of their game support, not their origin. I don't expect anyone should be told to buy a console they don't see any use for, no matter how amazing the games might be to another demographic. Afterall, one could say the Americans are the same because they don't rabidly buy up J-pop albums rather than their own selection of crappy pop songs.

The N64's biggest downfall was largely due to lack of third party support, though. The Xbox doesn't have that problem to nearly the same degree, but its lack of variety of games available is probably the biggest kick in the groin for it.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Mobius wrote:hum that article is one year old, situation has changed a lot since that time...

Because now the Japanese are rampant ideologists for their own national cause against American electronics, *I'm a smarmy asshole*? The point is the same. The US made console happens to not have the support the other consoles have and is floundering, which is snowballing the effect as less people want to invest in something that is only going to be a loss. The PS3 just edging out is likely because of the games behind it and that they come out earlier in Japan anyway. It's not like the Xbox was a raving success in Europe either, so unsurprisingly, the US is where the bulk of the sales went.

Personally, I'm trying to give a shit either way, I just dislike the "ZOMG! Jap nationalist parteh conspiracy1!" bullshit pulled.

I've never denied that the lack of games for the Japanese market has been a problem, but if you really think that Xbox hasn't tried to get Japanese developers to make games like that for the 360 in Japan, you've not been paying attention. The impetus of this campaign (retarded as its implementation is) is that now that the 360 finally has solid Japanese developer support helping them to make games specifically for the Japanese market, they're curious as to why sales haven't picked up. It's a fair question too, given the abject failure of the PS3 and the lack of direct competition with the Wii. The way they're going about the campaign is idiotic: instead they should be focusing more on the game lineup they're bringing to the table and not insulting the consumer base.

Yes, we all know Nintendo is a powerhouse, with the DS and the Wii dominating, but it's also not the same demographic that PS3 and 360 were aiming for. Like I said earlier, when forced between a 360 and a Wii, you'll still have decent sales on both sides, just as you would between a PS3 and a Wii (assuming the 360 were not a factor), but between PS3 and 360, you're going to have a more lopsided distribution.

Microsoft has been pumping the fact that they've brought on Japanese developers for third-party games since early 2005. Since then they've come out with a halfway decent selection, of course part of the problem after that is that they don't have heavyweight franchises behind them.

I'd say this is too little too late. With the Wii now out and the PS3 still hoping to make a go of things, the Xbox family is simply going to have to radicalise its movement in Japan, or admit it will always be a small niche market.

If they had full support back in 2001 and better advertising of that fact, they'd likely not be looking at so many unsold units over in the Far East. The console has broken records in certain nations that were held by the impressive PS2 (Australia for instance), though, again, they're more into Western gaming which is the hurdle that is keeping MS back from a good cut of that Japanese pie.

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I'd say this is too little too late. With the Wii now out and the PS3 still hoping to make a go of things, the Xbox family is simply going to have to radicalise its movement in Japan, or admit it will always be a small niche market.

If they had full support back in 2001 and better advertising of that fact, they'd likely not be looking at so many unsold units over in the Far East. The console has broken records in certain nations that were held by the impressive PS2 (Australia for instance), though, again, they're more into Western gaming which is the hurdle that is keeping MS back from a good cut of that Japanese pie.

That's a very good point. The original Xbox was almost entirely realized as a Western Product, but if you think about it, Microsoft strongarmed themselves into a market that hasn't seen new players in over six years (and even then, Sony had gotten a jumpstart due to the whole working with Nintendo thing). Traditionally, new players tend to get curbstomped early on, and it's hard to get developers to make games for a console that can't compete with the existing powerhouses. I suspect that if Microsoft is ever going to be a smash hit in Japan, it won't be until the third generation of its system, assuming they successfully wash off the stigma of the first generation with this one.

On another note, I honestly don't know if Sony stands a real chance with the PS3 in America or Japan. In America, it's getting curbstomped by the 360, and in Japan, it's getting curbstomped by Nintendo. The loss of Dragonquest is going to massively hurt, and I have serious questions as to the quality of FF13. 12 was an awesome game, but it feels like they're rushing out 13 much like they rushed out the PS3 itself. I'd like to see Sony survive to the next round, but I'm really getting the feeling that even if sales pick up, this round of the console wars is going to involve them licking their wounds.