Traviss's new novel, True Colors

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2007-02-10 06:34pm

I'll have to make use of russian copyright laws and update my essay some more.

Its currently being revised BTW, for future publishing on Publis' site.

Aratech · Post by **Aratech** » 2007-02-10 06:41pm

Is there a beta version of this essay that a guy who's interested could read?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2007-02-11 12:55am

Is there a beta version of this essay that a guy who's interested could read?

I'd love the chance to read another analytical essay, especially one written by you

(I've been on a binge of them after meeting a man with a phd Economics, 57 years in Israel, 20 in Manhattan and a frighteningly high total level of knowledge ona number of varied fronts)

Marko Dash · Post by **Marko Dash** » 2007-02-12 02:33pm

Is it just me, or does this seem to be a copy of the plot from Zhan's Allegiance?

Lord Relvenous · Post by **Lord Relvenous** » 2007-02-12 06:59pm

As the lines continue to blur between friend and enemy, citizens -- from civilians and sergeants to Jedi and generals -- find themselves up against a new foe: the doubt in their hearts and minds.

Explain to me this. How can sargeants, who are clones, have their confidence and loyalty shaken. They're clones! They don't have doubts, they don't question orders, and they certaintly don't lose any amount of loyalty. Why not, you ask? Because they can't, it is physically impossible for them! Case in point, Order 66. Therefore the whole basis of her supposed threat: null and void.

Epic Fail.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2007-02-12 07:36pm

Lord Relvenous wrote:
As the lines continue to blur between friend and enemy, citizens -- from civilians and sergeants to Jedi and generals -- find themselves up against a new foe: the doubt in their hearts and minds.
Explain to me this. How can sargeants, who are clones, have their confidence and loyalty shaken. They're clones! They don't have doubts, they don't question orders, and they certaintly don't lose any amount of loyalty. Why not, you ask? Because they can't, it is physically impossible for them! Case in point, Order 66. Therefore the whole basis of her supposed threat: null and void.

Epic Fail.

Other EU sources have demonstrated that clones have free will, and there is nothing in the movies to contradict that aspect of their neural makeup; indeed, the Chancellor of Kamino even points out that a similar trait, adaptability, makes them superior to droids in combat. Clones are simply trained from "birth" to be absolutely loyal to the Republic; such training, especially in case like those Traviss tends to write about (specially trained, "Black Ops" troopers), is not foolproof. Dark Lord has a unit of clone commandos refusing to gun down their Jedi commander following Order 66 as well, for example.

The problem here, I expect, will be that the "crisis of conscience" Traviss will fabricate for her characters will involve her ridiculous view that the Clone Wars were in actuality a minor brushfire war, blown out of proportion by Palpatine, who colluded with the Jedi Council to do so.

Lord Relvenous · Post by **Lord Relvenous** » 2007-02-12 07:53pm

Ok, i guess that was my ignorance shining through on that one. However, nothing in the movies seems to denote a faltering of confidence in the Jedi or the troopers. The Jedi have doubts about Palpatine, but never mention doubts about the war. Also, while my post was too strong for the lack of a clone's free will, I can't see an army bred to be loyal and changed in thought patterns to be more obedient losing faith as a whole. Specific cases, yes. Morale issues on the scale the blurg describes, no.

Why would the Jedi cooperate with Palpatine if they were plannign to have him removed from office? Sometimes the stupidity of EU writers amazes me.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2007-02-12 08:26pm

Lord Relvenous wrote:Ok, i guess that was my ignorance shining through on that one. However, nothing in the movies seems to denote a faltering of confidence in the Jedi or the troopers. The Jedi have doubts about Palpatine, but never mention doubts about the war. Also, while my post was too strong for the lack of a clone's free will, I can't see an army bred to be loyal and changed in thought patterns to be more obedient losing faith as a whole. Specific cases, yes. Morale issues on the scale the blurg describes, no.

I didn't read anything in the blurb that indicates that there was any sort of mass moral shift. Traviss focuses on a single squad of commandos, and I imagine that they will be the only ones involved in this crisis of loyalty.

Why would the Jedi cooperate with Palpatine if they were plannign to have him removed from office? Sometimes the stupidity of EU writers amazes me.

You have no idea.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2007-02-12 08:49pm

It wasn't a war, it was a police action.

Lord Relvenous · Post by **Lord Relvenous** » 2007-02-12 09:05pm

Noble Ire wrote: I didn't read anything in the blurb that indicates that there was any sort of mass moral shift. Traviss focuses on a single squad of commandos, and I imagine that they will be the only ones involved in this crisis of loyalty.

Read the sentence I posted again. "As the lines continue to blur between friend and enemy, citizens -- from civilians and sergeants to Jedi and generals -- find themselves up against a new foe: the doubt in their hearts and minds." I think that implies a large shift. IDK, Karen Traviss is so dumb, I wouldn't be surprised if she proposed the theory that the Venators at Coruscant was the whole Republic armada and the Separtists sent all of their ships to attack Coruscant.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2007-02-12 09:15pm

Lord Relvenous wrote:
Noble Ire wrote: I didn't read anything in the blurb that indicates that there was any sort of mass moral shift. Traviss focuses on a single squad of commandos, and I imagine that they will be the only ones involved in this crisis of loyalty.
Read the sentence I posted again. "As the lines continue to blur between friend and enemy, citizens -- from civilians and sergeants to Jedi and generals -- find themselves up against a new foe: the doubt in their hearts and minds." I think that implies a large shift. IDK, Karen Traviss is so dumb, I wouldn't be surprised if she proposed the theory that the Venators at Coruscant was the whole Republic armada and the Separtists sent all of their ships to attack Coruscant.

Upon review, I can understand your interpretation of the line, although it may simply be bad wording (SW.com is replete with similar errors). Then again, I suppose I might still be subconsciously resisting the idea that even Traviss could be that stupid.

Lord Relvenous · Post by **Lord Relvenous** » 2007-02-12 09:33pm

Noble Ire wrote:Upon review, I can understand your interpretation of the line, although it may simply be bad wording (SW.com is replete with similar errors). Then again, I suppose I might still be subconsciously resisting the idea that even Traviss could be that stupid.

You are much to kind to a woman who deserves no kindness. Remember the retconn of the CIS number of droids? 300 million? Yeah, methinks she could be that stupid.