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I agree that running a spear through data is no indication of his skeletal strength.

Galaxy wrote:I agree that running a spear through data is no indication of his skeletal strength.

It still damaged him enough so that he was unable to function w/o being repaired on the Enterprise.

Darth Wong wrote:He took quite a few rounds at point-blank range from an assault rifle in STFC, but then again, he got run through by a spear in one of the later TNG episodes. Maybe this assault rifle was firing rubber bullets.

Possibility: he learned his lesson after being impaled, and somehow reinforced his torso.

Darth Servo wrote:

It still damaged him enough so that he was unable to function w/o being repaired on the Enterprise.

I agree, that episode, while one of my all time favorite TNG episodes, was dissapointing that way.
Nitpick: Could Data have self repair on some level? The second time I saw the episode (Thine Own Self) I noticed he still had his villager's shirt on, complete with run through holes, after Crusher re-activated him! Was the damage so slight that his shirt needn't be removed to repair it, or could he repair himself, but require someone else to re-active him?

Did somebody say PLASTEEL?

Okay that makes three sci fi universes with this fictional metal: Dune, Star Wars, and now Star Trek. ; )

w00t!

In the episode where Data deforms the gun he seems threatened by it. Why? I mean, in ST-FC, as you mentioned, he took many rounds from an assault rifle but is held at gun point with a holographic pistol.

I thought he was protecting Picard or whomever it was was with him at the time (after all, they could have been hurt by the gun). In STFC nobody was standing right next to him and could have been hit in the crossfire.

Woa, no idea I triple posted! If a mod could take care of that, thanks.

The Silence and I wrote:Woa, no idea I triple posted! If a mod could take care of that, thanks.

Good job, and your still a newbie...hurry up man.

The Silence and I wrote:Woa, no idea I triple posted! If a mod could take care of that, thanks.

Fixed. Note that you can delete your own posts in most of the forums here (except for STvsSW, OSF and the HOS) provided that your post is the last one in the thread. If you notice that you've made a multiple post, just delete the offending post(s) by clicking on the 'X' icon beside the 'edit' and 'quote' buttons.

Lord Edam wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:And how could a human run him through with a metal spear long after this episode if he is made of such uber-material?

You assume his entire body is made of this material. It could be that just his "bones" are made of the material, whilst the rest of him is made of lesser things.

Then why don't the assault rifle's bullets go through him? The only explanation is major upgrades, but with what? He has consistently shown his body to be vastly stronger than any of the structural materials in use, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you realize that his body is presumably made of similar materials.

Kurgan wrote:Did somebody say PLASTEEL?

Okay that makes three sci fi universes with this fictional metal: Dune, Star Wars, and now Star Trek. ; )

w00t!

You can add the RPG Shadowrun to that list, they have plasteel as well.

BTW could Data have upgraded himself with a SIF (Structural Integrity Field) generator, you know the magical field that keeps ST ships in one piece?

Darth Wong wrote:

Lord Edam wrote:You assume his entire body is made of this material. It could be that just his "bones" are made of the material, whilst the rest of him is made of lesser things.

Then why don't the assault rifle's bullets go through him? The only explanation is major upgrades, but with what? He has consistently shown his body to be vastly stronger than any of the structural materials in use, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you realize that his body is presumably made of similar materials.

There's a lot of bullet proof materials between high tensile steel and simple skin. It could be that his body is made of some form of bullet proof material (bullet proof != stab proof) different from the material of his skeleton, or that the clothes he was wearing were bulletproof. Given that he jumped straight down, feet first, and lilly didn't seem particularly competent with her machine gun I doubt many of the bullets came anywhere near his torso anyway.

There's no need for upgrades to Data's body at all.

Darth Wong wrote:He took quite a few rounds at point-blank range from an assault rifle in STFC, but then again, he got run through by a spear in one of the later TNG episodes. Maybe this assault rifle was firing rubber bullets.

What of the knife/kevlar analogy?

Darth Wong wrote:The problem with the steel-bar incident should be obvious: it was said to be a particularly strong material by Federation standards, yet if Data could bend it so easily, with arms and hands whose main structural members are much thinner than the bar, then what the fuck are his arms, hands, and fingers made of? And how could a human run him through with a metal spear long after this episode if he is made of such uber-material?

He's designed like a human I guess, with an internal skeleton like structure with "flesh" on it.

Lord Edam wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:

Lord Edam wrote:You assume his entire body is made of this material. It could be that just his "bones" are made of the material, whilst the rest of him is made of lesser things.

Then why don't the assault rifle's bullets go through him? The only explanation is major upgrades, but with what? He has consistently shown his body to be vastly stronger than any of the structural materials in use, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you realize that his body is presumably made of similar materials.

There's a lot of bullet proof materials between high tensile steel and simple skin. It could be that his body is made of some form of bullet proof material (bullet proof != stab proof) different from the material of his skeleton, or that the clothes he was wearing were bulletproof. Given that he jumped straight down, feet first, and lilly didn't seem particularly competent with her machine gun I doubt many of the bullets came anywhere near his torso anyway.

There's no need for upgrades to Data's body at all.

You could clearly hear the sounds made by bullets when impacting a solid metal surface.

I see I'm late.

Slartibartfast wrote:You could clearly hear the sounds made by bullets when impacting a solid metal surface.

Bullet proof uniform?
Bullets penetrating and ricocheting of internal components? Kinda like a bullet would richochet inside a body.

Are we also assuming about the alien who stabbed Data?

For all you know they are stronger than the average human and who knows what material is in the tip of the spear. Of course these are all weak excuses. That one episode really reduces the strength of Data compared to other episodes.

I think the best we can do is look at comparisons. Data has proven to be well stronger than A Borg or a Klingon in straight comparisons of strength. He is also strong enough to easily throw Borg drones what appears to be 10 feet or further as seen in STFC.

Data though is weaker though than the strength required to move a ST equivalent to a bank door as seen in the episode where the collector steals him.

Bullet proof does not in any way equal stab proof. Bullets and knives are completely different. Bullets are low mass and high velocity, knives are higher mass and much lower velocity.

As proof a normal bullet proof vest as worn by todays police does little to stop knives which cut through them easily.

Lord Edam wrote: There's a lot of bullet proof materials between high tensile steel and simple skin. It could be that his body is made of some form of bullet proof material (bullet proof != stab proof)

Slartibartfast wrote: You could clearly hear the sounds made by bullets when impacting a solid metal surface.

When Data was droppping down alongside the missile yes, you could, and most of the shots seemed to be missing.

When Data was walking straight towards Lilly the sound was more of a dull thud, rather than metal-on-metal.

DocMoriartty wrote:Bullet proof does not in any way equal stab proof. Bullets and knives are completely different. Bullets are low mass and high velocity, knives are higher mass and much lower velocity.

As proof a normal bullet proof vest as worn by todays police does little to stop knives which cut through them easily.

Heavy body armour stops knives. This simply means that Data is as tough as low-grade police body armour, not the good stuff.

Darth Wong wrote:Heavy body armour stops knives. This simply means that Data is as tough as low-grade police body armour, not the good stuff.

Well I'm guessing that material Data is using is more flexible and probably lighter, he can't really go around looking like Threepio

Heavy body armor though is designed to stop knives because it is a two tier system with metal or plastic inserts to stop high mass low velocity impacts. It is not purely a bullet proof vest but in actuality a total protective system.

Darth Wong wrote:

DocMoriartty wrote:Bullet proof does not in any way equal stab proof. Bullets and knives are completely different. Bullets are low mass and high velocity, knives are higher mass and much lower velocity.

As proof a normal bullet proof vest as worn by todays police does little to stop knives which cut through them easily.

Heavy body armour stops knives. This simply means that Data is as tough as low-grade police body armour, not the good stuff.