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AltoidMaster wrote: Substantiate your belief when the Chinese government is becoming more stable and not less, when it has been able to survive an election without political coups or huge power struggles,

Ah yes, and how many political prisioners are locked away every year?

when its people are becoming more and more free,

because of developments outside China, not because of government support

When countries such as Cuba and China are more successful at providing a basic living standard than any other communist power, when economy is growing and more and more people are becoming served.

Tell that to the millions of Chinese who have and continue to die every year due to starvation because of bad government argiculture policy?

Tell that to the thousands of Cubans who attempt to come to the U.S., even though the present government is less oppressive than that of Batista.

The evidence reveals all government exactly as they are, continually growing, and changing. I can't believe I have to repeat myself so many times. Governments and nations are considered practically living entities, who must adapt to different times. Don't be so idiotic that you miss this most basic of points.

Just like the USSR evolved into the CIS

Communism has failed in most large nations. The ones still evolving are exactly that: evolving, changing, growing, becoming more stable.

China is stable only because the government oppresses any and all descent

But communism is immensely successful today in a familial group.

Great, how revelant is that?

Monarchy is STILL alive with countries such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Just because you don't like a form of government doesn't mean its an utter failure.

Then why is the quality of life in those countries so pathetic despite their rich natural resources?

The experiment is never ending, and there will never be a full jury decision. With that type of thinking, democracy should have collapsed as soon as Athens collapsed. Because from the indication of that time, they failed utterly according to your opinion and monarchy was the only form of government that was successful. But today we see a new type of indirect democracy forming and developing (yes, the US and ALL other countries democratic or otherwise are STILL DEVELOPING) that has been reborn and is flourishing.

Democracy and capitalism have worked for many years now in many countries. Communism has never worked. From the onset it has done nothing but make the situation worse.

There is no such thing as a single "chance" for an ideology. That's the one damn thing to get straight here. PERIOD

Communism was given a chance after WWII. Fifty years later, the democratic capitalist nations are striving while the communist nations have either converted to capitalistic democracies or have a standard of living so poor their citizens flee them at every chance.

This notion that we should give communism a second chance despite it great failings when we have another much more seccessful system in place is downright absurd. If you want to live in a communist state, I suggest you go ahead and buy an one way airline ticket to Peking or Pyongyang. Just make sure to sent us at the board a post card every now and then.

Acutal USAF Ace I must desent with you on one point

Then why(Are Jorden and SA) is the quality of life in those countries so pathetic despite those countries having rich natural resources

You do know Saudi Aribia provides free housing, Free Heath Care, free schooling(Including some collages) and some people are even elligable for free Cars, Not just any car, BMW's
For example if when I'm in the Tenth Grade I sign up to be a nuclear Engineer or a Surgeon. The Goverment will give me free housing, Free Collage Tiution, including picking up half the tab if I don't want to go to school in SA, if say I go to Oxford they will pay for room and board and half my tiutaion plus provide me with a Car

How is the quailty of life bad?
Oh yes is a Desert and there are nomads who don't take advnatage of the goverments freebies
Sucks to be an idiot I say



Jorden on the other hand has a terriorst and idiot goverment problem they fucked themselves over and they don't look like they are going to stop anytime soon

SIGH.

I don't have the time to respond to everything but I'll point out that my statement about Familial communism being successful as evidence that Communism can be very successful and thriving. Almost every single family is dictatorial and communistic. Therefore add about a billion families to your list of successful communists.

Yes, and I'll point out that an ant lifting 50 times its own weight is evidence that a 100lb ant could lift 5,000lb.

Yes, and I'll point out that an ant lifting 50 times its own weight is evidence that a 100lb ant could lift 5,000lb.

If we where to hold with that scalling if you say looked at a Puppy it would countiue to keep growing and growing untill one day the engentic waggings of its tail would accidently destroy a large metropolit area, Lucky thanks to the National Guard this does not happen that often
~Scott Adams Predictions of the Future

What horseshit.
Families are not forms of government.
The family unit, is subserviant to a REAL government.
Being married, and being divorced are government actions. Reguardless of what any church thinks, or says. Ask the Mormons. Ask the Catholics. Ask the homosexuals. The moral standing is not as inportant as the LEGAL standing, when it comes to money, property, and child custody. Because the POLICE enforce the rules of a TRUE government. Daddy enforces the rules in the house maybe, but anyone in the house can have him put in jail
if he steps out of the bounds the REAL government has put in place.
Marriage(?spelling?)is a government sanctioned (and ENFORCED!)business contract between individuals, for purposes of child rearing,and asset allocation. And a few other things I won't go into here.
The government will take your children away from you if they feel they have a compelling reason reguarding the health, safety, or moral charachter of the parents.
The government will make you move out of "your" house and stay away from "your" spouce and or children, apon peanalty of prison, or financial sanctions.
The government will take your hard earned money, and give it to the ex partner, child, or both.
Families, are FAMILIES!
Not all social groups are governments.
This battle board is a social group, is it a government?
My circle of friends is a social group, is IT a form of government?
More communist bullshit, redefining words to prove the rightness of their arguments.
Not surprising, as communism is a system based on lies.
The people that believe in it are liars, either to themselves, (the foolish)or to others.(the power hungry)
Still playing word games and changing the rules to be "right" huh?
If you showed me one, I repeat, ONE communist government that wasn't an unmitigated economic and social disaster, I would grant you a point, and reevaluate my position.
You on the other hand, like the truly faithful, are unwilling to admit even the POSSIBILITY of being wrong.
Like the creationists and their ilk, you are arguing from a position of FAITH!
SHOW ME THE MONEY!
I look forward to your next clever wordgame.
Is this thing on?

PS: If you are trying to use the primative family of neolithic savages as an example of government, then word "ANARCHY", and the rule of brute force that is the natural result of the "nongovernment government" has temperarily escaped you. Or perhaps your "lobster trap" style of reasoning won't allow you to retain contradictory facts in your consious mind while adressing any issue that you feel passionatly about.
"A family is a form of government." What rubbish! What lies! What desperation!
What pitiful proof of the intelectual bankruptcy of your position, all the more shameful for your claim of superior reasoning abilities.
Pathetic and contemptable.
Then again, most communists are.
Do you understand just how STUPID you look to all but the faithful few when you say such things?
Oh, that's right, my disagreement with you is "proof" of your superior :
Knowledge, education, reasoning ability, civility, __________ (fill in the blanc.)
Is this the BEST you can do? Bilions of sucsessful comunist examples my ass.

For the truly stupid, or deceptive word gamers: (You know who you are)
All governments are a social group.
Not all social groups are governments.
Families are a social group.
It does necessarily follow that all families are governments. (Ipso loquator)

Correction, "It does not necessarily follow"

Such a thoughful looking monkey you have.