StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I'm not sure how accurate this is but i have found this:
Atlas

Quoth the server, 404.

For some reason it won't load probley.

Try this:
http://insd.swcombine.com/insd/mapintro.htm

That's a really crappy map. It's got the planets of the correlian system all spread out in a line at least 100 or a 1000 light years long.

Regarding Zahn, is really his fault had hyperspace speeds so slow? Did he have a reference to use at the time that told him how fast it truly was, and he just ignored it?

EDIT - Well, now that I've posted this, I remember Pietts "other side of the galaxy by now" line about the MF, but was there anything else that he could have used? Was there a Holocron type thingy at Lucasfilm then?

Zahn was given a few WEG sourcebooks and told to use them as source material.

Limited fuel-supplies might be the reason for little intergalactic travel. An Acclamator has fuel for 250,000 lightyears and a Venator for only 60,000 according to the ICS (or is this just the maximum distance they can cover with a single jump?). So a ship trying to do "extra-galactic" travel would have to be accompanied by a number of fuel-tankers.

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Where?

Errr........... I can't recall... Can anyone help me out here?

quote="Aaron2"]
I would agree but disabling a safety feature is better than getting spanked by a couple of ISDs. Also, if it were just a case of disabling a safety features, then the ripple wall between galaxies wouldn't mean squat. That's my problem, you have a gravity barrier surrounding all galaxies but the barrier is only a problem if you misunderstand how SW hyperspace works. Gravity has to be inpenetrable in hyperspace for the gravity bubble to work.

A giant glass ball would have made more sense.[/quote]
Gravity fields probably do have a real effect on SW hyperspace. The gravity from Tatooine for example required the MF navcomputer to adjust its jump so as to compensate, as per ANH novelisation.

Similarly, there have been examples of ships running into gravity and being damaged or experiecing an impact, such as Talon Karrde during the unplanned jump away from the Katana fleet.

FTeik wrote:Limited fuel-supplies might be the reason for little intergalactic travel.

Or fuel costs. Something that is seldom mentioned.

I'm not sure why anyone would even bother to go to another galaxy, they'll just find a bunch of lifeless worlds similar to millions of lifeless worlds within their own galaxy that are routinely ignored. Plus, once they made it to another galaxy, they would have to setup a base and start generating hyperspace charts in order to do any kind of exploring. Supplies would then have to be brought in to sustain the base while this is going on; yet more expenses. And for what? There are plenty of "uncharted settlements" in their own galaxy for anyone with a hankering for exploration.

In Cloak of Deception (I think that's what it was called), it makes mention that the Trade Federation is the primary entity that generates new hyperspace charts for outer rim worlds. Unless there was a galaxy wide shortage of a certain raw material, it wouldn't be profitable for them to get stuff from another galaxy. This leaves exploring up to the largely useless Republic government (or the Jedi, I guess).

PainRack wrote:Gravity fields probably do have a real effect on SW hyperspace. The gravity from Tatooine for example required the MF navcomputer to adjust its jump so as to compensate, as per ANH novelisation.

Similarly, there have been examples of ships running into gravity and being damaged or experiecing an impact, such as Talon Karrde during the unplanned jump away from the Katana fleet.

So, the gravity itself causes the damage, not the object generating the gravity?

I'm not sure why anyone would even bother to go to another galaxy

The existence of Exgal shows that there is sufficient scientific interest to establish listening posts to monitor the galactic rim, building a ship with the extra fuel tanks shouldn't be too much extra effort.

Also the shear quest for discovery would drive people to the new galaxies, it would be the ultimate adventure. How many people would be off exploring the stars today if the tech existed for people to actually do it?

Not to mention the political/economic benefits from contacting new civilisations in other galaxies, with potentially new tech/products/markets. Although you are correct that there is no conceivable need to expand to aquire new raw materials the drive for other motives should be more than sufficient, especially is as said the nearest galaxy is only 18 days away.

The technological and theoretical knowhow and capability to reach and colonize the New World existed for the Medieval Norse, yet colonization was neither centralized nor sustained. Likewise for Ming China. Yet, for a long time it was not economically or politically worthwhile or sustainable.

Also keep the age of the main GFFA-civilisation in mind. Aside from the big corporations and governments, who would be the only ones able to start such an enterprise and who would be hesitant to do it because of the high costs and little to gain the majority of citicens probably suffers from "been there, seen it before, nothing new under the sun"-syndrome with all the things, that exist in their own galaxy.

Only when other motives (such as C'Baoth wanting to establish secret enclaves and building up a Jedi-Armee or Palpatine spreading the rule of the DarkSide over the universe) come into play things like OutboundFlight were started.

Concerning ExGal, weren't they a rather small company/organisation that suffered a lot from budgetary limitations? Maybe they weren't even set up for scientific reasons, but to keep an eye out for "extragalactic" invaders (after the experiences with the Ssi-Ruu, Tof, Nagai and the information about "thousands of threats" from the UR).

Aaron2 wrote: So, the gravity itself causes the damage, not the object generating the gravity?

Perhaps. Depends on how you want to define mass shadow actually.

For example, the Correllian Crisis showed that hyperspace sustainers could maintain a jump in an interdiction field. However, it was an extremely bumpy ride, which could be a result of the varying vectors of force. The technological explaination contained there however, is different. It suggests that a hyperspace field can't be sustained in an interdiction field, an explaination that is contradictory to other technical details. For example, in Black Fleet crisis, we learn that the loss of they field in hyperspace simply left the ship coasting in hyperspace....... forever.

PainRack wrote: For example, in Black Fleet crisis, we learn that the loss of they field in hyperspace simply left the ship coasting in hyperspace....... forever.

I thought that happens if the hyperdrive fails to push the ship out of hyperspace.

EDIT: Yeah, the guy who retook the Imperial Fleet over Koornacht said that he did work on an idea to use bombs in hyperspace; he said that there was no wreckage found in realspace but that could mean simply that the matter was annihilated when it hit something.

Warsie wrote:

PainRack wrote: For example, in Black Fleet crisis, we learn that the loss of the field in hyperspace simply left the ship coasting in hyperspace....... forever.

I thought that happens if the hyperdrive fails to push the ship out of hyperspace.

IOW the ship is...left to coast in hyperspace.

Batman wrote: IOW the ship is...left to coast in hyperspace.

Right, unless it hits something which decelerates it...quickly

Saxton also said some things on it

Warsie wrote:

Batman wrote: IOW the ship is...left to coast in hyperspace.

Right, unless it hits something which decelerates it...quickly

The probability of which happening is not worth mentioning.

Saxton also said some things on it

DO elaborate.

Batman wrote:The probability of which happening is not worth mentioning.

okay, sorry

DO elaborate.

"Hyperspace is not simply another realm, disconnected from the real universe. Every point and time in hyperspace is associated with a place and moment in realspace, and vice-versa. Hyperspace is not apart from realspace; instead it is an alternate aspect of the universe which is only experienced by objects moving faster than light.

Objects and energy fields in realspace have effects on bodies in hyperspace. From the viewpoint of hyperspatial travellers the ordinary subluminal phenomena of the galaxy manifest themselves in a different form, just as a ship in hyperspace appears to have peculiar characteristics from the vantage of observers in realspace. The influence of realspace masses in hyperspace is known as the hyperspace mass-shadow effect. Collision with the shadow of a macroscopic object is catastrophic and usually fatal.

Subluminal objects can interact with objects in hyperspace. Therefore the reverse must also be true. The realspace object involved in a superluminal collision will also suffer destructive effects, though the detailed kinematics of superluminal collisions are not as straightforward or amenable to human intuition as interactions between ordinary bodies.

When real, bradyonic bodies lose energy they become slower; it requires effort to approach lightspeed from below. Approaching lightspeed from above also requires effort. As a tachyonic object loses energy it becomes faster. The remnants of ships involved in superluminal collisions will scatter in different directions at higher speed. This leads to further collisions with the mass shadows of nearby background objects and eventually all of the matter is pulverised to individual subatomic particles travelling at indefinitely high speed. This thin superluminal radiation would rapidly diffuse out across the entire universe.

Ships destroyed in hyperspace are never known to return their debris to realspace, and ships which experience accidents while jumping in or out tend to leave very little wreckage. According to Major Sil Sorannan, who once worked for a military research team in experimental hyperphysics, objects released in hyperspace always remain in hyperspace. To return from hyperspace requires the use of a hyperdrive. This makes perfect sense in terms of the tachyonic view of hyperspace and superluminal travel elucidated above.

It is possible that starships in hyperspace will experience a drag force due to tiny collisions with diffuse interstellar gas. If this effect is significant then it will tend to accelerate the vessel. Starships passing through thicker portions of the interstellar medium might suffer ablation as well as being in peril of reaching unnavigably high speeds, overshooting the proper destination and possibly ending in a more serious collision.

Interstellar hyperspace drag effect might be counterbalanced through the judicious use of the sublight drives while in hyperspace. This could account for the fact that the sublight engines of the Millennium Falcon were already glowing when the ship was seen approaching its exit point at Alderaan in A New Hope. (Alternatively, it might simply have been keeping its sublight engines running at lower power to keep them prepared for immediate use upon realspace reversion.) "

Oh, I just noticed this with the hyperdrive/gravity effect:

"Hyperdrives do not operate effectively in regions of space affected by strong gravitational distortion. It is not possible to jump to hyperspace within the immediate vicinity of a planet or other large celestial body due to the natural gravity well. A starship must move out to at least several planetary diameters before it is safe to make the jump into hyperspace. The gravitational influence of an average habitable planet makes the jump calculations impossibly imprecise out to distances of about twelve planetary radii"
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/hyperspace.html#collisions

Perhaps I should've started a new thread, but Dan Wallace has published a few details about the first draft of the atlas here:

the book is equal parts cosmology, planet profiles, political structure, colonization, history, the sweep and scale of wars, and bulleted lists presenting miscellaneous items of kewlness

Starglider wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:It is no more helpful to explain why there is no extragalactic travel. A better explanation is fuel economy problems and isolation.

It certainly sounds like a lousy rationalisation (I haven't read the relevant EU novels so I can't be sure). But I don't see how fuel economy or psychology are any better, if you accept the comparison to the Milky Way/Andromeda as valid. 18 days in hyperspace should be nothing for an ISD that carries 'consumables for 6 years' (and we've seen them operate independently for long periods in the novels). Psychology could explain an official reluctance to try, but in a galaxy with thousands of species, millions of inhabited worlds and billions of starships, someone is bound to try from time to time.

Consumables does not include energy resources (likely it refers to life support and expected crew endurance). Ender's energy consumption shows ISDs can sustain peak acceleration for only a few hours and peak power output for only a half a day or so. Additionally, trans-galactic warships in AOTC and ROTS have only 250,000 light-year peak range without refueling (Acclamator-class assault transport) and 40,000 light-year effective range without refueling (Venator-class destroyer/carrier).

Bluewolf wrote:For some reason it won't load probley.

Try this:
http://insd.swcombine.com/insd/mapintro.htm

WTF?
This map places Rishi in the Farfin sector, but as far as I know, Rishi is in the dwarf galaxy the Rishi Maze.