Gungans VS Borg

[Stark]

Concievably they could attempt to use their shields to protect them as they pass through. I'm not sure what I doubt more - that it would work, or that the borg would think of it in eight million million years.

[General Brock]

The Borg would eventually take Gunguns, assuming they don't short out when immersed in (salt?) water. But why would they?

There's nothing about Gungun tech that should interest them. Without the rest of the SW universe, the Gunguns are plenet-bound, with no interest in interstellar travel or producing the kind of technology that seems to attract the Borg.

[Stark]

You know, you just contribued totally unsupported statements, some of which fly in direct opposition to evidence already presented. The Gungans have a base on their moon, for chrissakes. They're not Mormons.

[General Brock]

Huh? I thought they established that colony with foreign, imported tech, not indigenous tech, after the humans arrived.

The OP said the humans weren't there, so I assume they never arrived and the Gunguns were isolated enough from the rest of the SW galaxy to have to face the Borg alone.

My mistake then. I haven't read the EU stuff, just the SW site. Must be having mis-memory problems again.

[General Brock]

As for the Borg, well, my impression was that they only went after interstellar species that could threaten them or whose tech could enhance their own. Maybe Gungun tech could, but I'm not sure how; its supposed to be organic, something grown from the planet, whereas the Borg seem to prefer more processed technology.

[General Brock]

Edit: OK, double checked the SW Databank; the Gunguns don't have indigenous space faring tech. Their force sheilds and city tech are all based on an energy goo, so the Borg might be interested in those, if for whatever reason that come to their attention.

[General Brock]

OK, re-read the thread, and the OP was modified to include the Gungun moon colony. Another mistake; skimming instead of reading.

Since the Gunguns are primitives by galactic standards, they won't have the most advanced warships, because they can't possibly have the credits to buy them or ability to copy them, nor can their raw planetary resources barter for advanced tech, or Naboo would have been a more important planet than it was in the movies.

Warships aren't needed for colonizing an uninhabited moon either. The Borg will be interested in the SW tech, and attempt to assimilate what ships they can nab as well as the moon colony. This should give them the ability to determine if the Gunguns planetside are worthy of assimilation. It should also be possible possible because the Gungun space navy would consist of cargo ships for trade, passenger ships for the colony, and maybe a few token fighters and a light corvette or two below galactic standards, perhaps even designed for trade with low/alternative-tech species like the Gunguns. At best they would have mercenary crews, or green Gungun crews, further reducing their combat effectiveness.

Based on what I've been able to see or read about the Borg, they have demonstrated no ability to assimilate a deep aquatic civilization or engage in unnecessary warfare against an opponent that can't significantly harm them. Although, if they have assimilated whole planets, you'd think they'd have have dealt with deep oceans. Hammering Naboo with asteroids would be unnecessary and jeaporadize further acquisition of Gungun technology. The more advanced non-Gungun space faring and war-making technology would be a more obvious target for concern and acquisition. The Gunguns, on the other hand, can't possibly wage war beyond their planet's surface with an army that is ceremonial and without air/space capability. Furthermore, Gungun civilization is unlikely to bridge that kind of tech gap on their own any time soon.

Upon assimilating low level Gungun and SW galactic tech and the knowledge of assimilated Gunguns and any other aliens, isofar as they can, the Borg will then cease hostilities at the moon. Based on my limited understanding of the Borg, they are a combination of crocodile and amoeba, and engage in hostilities only if a species triggers an assimilation response, and when they can win without significant losses, or when they have no choice. They will spend millenia trying to figure out what to do, perhaps sending out the occasional probe, and learning to incorporate SW tech with their own, while Gunguns write off their off-world adventure.

[Singular Intellect]

Maybe Gungun tech could, but I'm not sure how; its supposed to be organic, something grown from the planet, whereas the Borg seem to prefer more processed technology.

That wouldn't explain their massive interest in Species 8472, a purely biological technology species...

[General Brock]

I'm not even sure how that fight began. I always assumed they did the usual Borg routine of acquiring samples, and Species 8472 decided to kill them all for their trouble. Unlike most aliens the Borg antagonize, Species 8472 responded to Borg curiosity the way everyone else in the normal galaxy wants to but can't. The Borg were fighting a defensive war, as far as I can tell, not trying to assimilate a new dimension of space.

[Lord Pounder]

they where trying to assimilate 8742 initially but couldn't, then where overwhelmed when 8742 counter attacked.

[General Brock]

OK, then; time for a quick trip to Memory Alpha... haven't been here in a while...

The Borg want distinctive technology, based on potential utility to the collective, which seems to be defined in terms of ability to maintian space superiority.

Species 8472 had DNA tech overall superior to Borg nannies. The Gunguns posess nothing that should invite mass-assimilation. The Gungun colony should yeild examples of both indigenous and imported tachnology.

The likley end result would still be, the Gunguns lose in space, and the Borg stop after taking the lunar colony and any spacecraft that remained in the system, ending a versus confrontation. They won't bother to assimilate the Gungun homeworld, because the Gunguns aren't remotely ripe for harvest in any branch of technology other than shield generation. Even then, SW starship shields are more important to the Borg. Gunguns are irrelevant in the context of the greater, more potent new galaxy.

The Borg then experience episodes of blue screen of death, trying to program nanites to duplicate hyperdrives and hypermatter reactors usable to the collective based on a few examples and limited raw materials. With only transwarp drive, they are limited in their ability to expand into the SW galaxy.

Realizing they are decades and more from being a match for myriad non-Gungun aliens, but could soon be repeating a version of the Species 8472 war, the Borg leave, collapsing the wormhole behind them. The Gunguns don't notice, because their isolationist factions have been vindicated and nothing outworld interests them anymore, as long as it doesn't come to them.

[Batman]

OK, then; time for a quick trip to Memory Alpha... haven't been here in a while...
The Borg want distinctive technology, based on potential utility to the collective, which seems to be defined in terms of ability to maintain space superiority.

Oh really. Why, pray tell, did they intend to assimilate the E-D, which was by and large considerably inferior to the tech they already had?, Oh, and 'we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.' So much for them only being after technology.

Species 8472 had DNA tech overall superior to Borg nannies.

Which the Borg likely didn't KNOW when the started to try to assimilate them.

The Gunguns posess nothing that should invite mass-assimilation.

It's Gungans and possess. And a point could be made that neither did the vast majority of species' the Borg DID assimilate. Especially since you're wrong. The Gungans have Wars-tech shields and weapons, be they organic (yech!) or technological.

The Gungun colony should yeild examples of both indigenous and imported tachnology.

IOW they DO posses something inviting assimilation. Make up your mind.

The likley end result would still be, the Gunguns lose in space,

Based on-what? The Gungans as per the OP are spacefaring, and in Wars the vast majority of spacefaring societies are more or less on the same level, i.e. on a level where they can bitchslap the Borg without trying. What makes you think the Gungans aren't?

and the Borg stop after taking the lunar colony and any spacecraft that remained in the system, ending a versus confrontation.

And you know they can do so because?

They won't bother to assimilate the Gungun homeworld, because the Gunguns aren't remotely ripe for harvest in any branch of technology other than shield generation.

Which is already vastly superior to what the Borg have. Plus they have Wars-level firepower, might have Wars-level propulsion, metallurgy, communications, AI, power generation...

Even then, SW starship shields are more important to the Borg.

And that's a completely different technology from ground shields because of...?

Gunguns are irrelevant in the context of the greater, more potent new galaxy.

Which the Borg don't know shit about yet. Mind you, the Borg probably ARE too stupid to realize that assimilating the Gungans would likely get them a lot of useful knowledge ABOUT said galaxy.

The Borg then experience episodes of blue screen of death, trying to program nanites to duplicate hyperdrives and hypermatter reactors usable to the collective based on a few examples and limited raw materials.

And where would those examples come from? Either the Gungans don't have them, in which case the Borg won't get their hands on them on account of none being around, or the Gungans DO, in which case they either kick the Borg royally in the behind, or if the don't have the numbers/firepower to do that, run away/hide under their shields. Either way, the Borg don't get their hands on them.

With only transwarp drive, they are limited in their ability to expand into the SW galaxy.
Realizing they are decades and more from being a match for myriad non-Gungun aliens,

Try millenia. And since as per your scenario they DON'T try to assimilate the Gungans (which, I might add, is contrary to their standard MO) how would they know they ARE that far behind?

[General Brock]

Batman Wrote:

>snip<

Eh... one Gungun lunar colony made with imported tech they at best only have the manuals for, is equivalent in star-faring and manufacturing experience of a self-made empire spanning 1/4 of a galaxy?

I'm sorry, is this debate or discussion? Feel free to put out your own scenario of what would happen Gungun Vs. Borg. It sounds a lot more exciting than my own.

The Borg couldn't possibly screw this up even if Berman were directing.

[darthbob88]

Batman Wrote:

>snip<

Eh... one Gungun lunar colony made with imported tech they at best only have the manuals for, is equivalent in star-faring and manufacturing experience of a self-made empire spanning 1/4 of a galaxy?

I'm sorry, is this debate or discussion? Feel free to put out your own scenario of what would happen Gungun Vs. Borg. It sounds a lot more exciting than my own.

The Borg couldn't possibly screw this up even if Berman were directing.

Discussion; what Bats is asking, as I see it, is for you to support this assertion of yours that the Borg would be satisfied with assimilating tech but not people, and that the Gungans are not worth assimilating en masse save for their technology, which would give the Borg fits anyway.

[Stark]

Yeah, he seems to think the Gungans are Zulus or something, nowhere near SW-standard technology. He seems to think all examples of Gungan capability are 'imported' and that the Gungans don't understand them. Probably because they have big ears and talk funny.

[Batman]

Batman Wrote:
>snip<
Eh... one Gungun lunar colony made with imported tech

which is several millenia ahead of anything the AQ has,

they at best only have the manuals for,

As evidenced by? They have colonized the moon and thus have the technology. Prove they don't understand and can't replicate it. Hell even if that were the case, it would STILL represent technology millenia ahead of what the Borg have. Nor worth assimilating my ass.

is equivalent in star-faring and manufacturing experience of a self-made empire spanning 1/4 of a galaxy?

Except the UFP doesn't span a quarter of a galaxy. 150 planets spread across 8000 lightyears. Not that the UFP is self-made to begin with what with most of their technology being scrounged off the Vulcans and other AQ races. As for manufacturing experience, the Wars galaxy (and thus by extension the Gungans) has several ten thousand years of it.

I'm sorry, is this debate or discussion?

I wasn't aware there's necessarily a difference.

The Borg couldn't possibly screw this up even if Berman were directing.

The Borg actually likely WOULD screw this up even if they were written intelligently for a change, thanks to being outgunned six ways from sunday.
The only reason the Borg are a threat at all in Trek is because they outgun most of the AQ/DQ races something fierce. They most definitely do NOT WRT Wars.

[Stark]

Except the UFP doesn't span a quarter of a galaxy. 150 planets spread across 8000 lightyears. Not that the UFP is self-made to begin with what with most of their technology being scrounged off the Vulcans and other AQ races. As for manufacturing experience, the Wars galaxy (and thus by extension the Gungans) has several ten thousand years of it.

He's talking about the Borg - he thinks they fill the DQ, apparently. Chockers with cubes it is. Totally under the control of the Borg.

[Batman]

One wonders why Voyager didn't run into a Borg cube twice every episode under these circumstances...

[Imperial Overlord]

How is UFP, of which Vulcan and Andor are prominent members, not be a self made nation because it uses Vulcan and Andorian technology?

The whole Alpha-Beta Quadrant thing is spectacularly stupid. The Klingons, UFP, Romulans et. al. are all clustered in one small part of a single spiral arm and they decide to slice up the galaxy in such a way that the Klingons are in one quadrant and the UFP is in another. Chopping up the local area that way, into spheres of influence, makes some sense but to draw the galactic dividing line along the UFP/Klingon border is silly.

[Batman]

How is UFP, of which Vulcan and Andor are prominent members, not be a self made nation because it uses Vulcan and Andorian technology?

That's a fair enough complaint. The reason I said that is throughout TNG and what I've seen of ENT, the UFP is made out to be human dominated.
So while the UFP may be technically self-made, humanity's domination of it certainly isn't, at least where technology is concerned.

[Imperial Overlord]

The Federation doesn't even exist in ENT. The later seasons of ENT suggest that humanity may end up playing a large role in the Federation because the Romulans and Andorians are much more willing to trust humans than each other. The shows focus on humans for obvious reasons (budget, audience identification) but we know that non humans win the presidency of the Federation, that several nonhuman species have are influential within the Federation (Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, etcetera), and there are ships in Starfleet with largely nonhuman crews as well.

[General Brock]

Batman Wrote:

>snip<

Eh... one Gungun lunar colony made with imported tech they at best only have the manuals for, is equivalent in star-faring and manufacturing experience of a self-made empire spanning 1/4 of a galaxy?

I'm sorry, is this debate or discussion? Feel free to put out your own scenario of what would happen Gungun Vs. Borg. It sounds a lot more exciting than my own.

The Borg couldn't possibly screw this up even if Berman were directing.

Discussion; what Bats is asking, as I see it, is for you to support this assertion of yours that the Borg would be satisfied with assimilating tech but not people, and that the Gungans are not worth assimilating en masse save for their technology, which would give the Borg fits anyway.

Oh... OK.

The Borg assimilate both, usually at the same time. A small civilian lunar colony and its staff, as well and any defending spacecraft which at best would be a smaller, cheaper version of the Naboo Royal fleet would be easier than a whole planet. Assuming they succeeded, this would give the Borg the information they need to either continue or pull back.

It might take a few dozen cubes, and a few ten thousand drones, but it would hardly be impossible, since these are Gunguns learning a new field of technology, not clone troopers. Gungun tech appears to match SW in general only in shielding, and that only in theatre shields and those personal models used by Gungun warriors.

I said the Borg couldn't possibly screw up the battle, not that it wouldn't be costly. The Borg would have to weigh the merits of assimilating the Gungun homeworld against the potential for more losses, knowing from assimilated Gunguns and a mix of captured technology that the Gunguns are primitives relative to their neighbors.

[Batman]

And this shows the UFP isn't largely human-dominated how?

[General Brock]

One wonders why Voyager didn't run into a Borg cube twice every episode under these circumstances...

It would be like running into a needle in a haystack the size of a few football fields, probably. ST has a silly sense of scale, but even taking it seriously, the odds of running into Borg ships in that volume of space is remote outside plot device.

[Batman]

One wonders why Voyager didn't run into a Borg cube twice every episode under these circumstances...

It would be like running into a needle in a haystack the size of a few football fields, probably. ST has a silly sense of scale, but even taking it seriously, the odds of running into Borg ships in that volume of space is remote outside plot device.

Then so is the idea of the Borg actually controlling said space.