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Had this happened, i'm sure the mandametal armor would be much more effective:


Apparantly, Lucas originaly planed to have everyone use lightsabers, even the storm troopers...

Meh, it all comes down the the cost benifit of the concept though. We know plenty of things are lightsaber 'resistent' without being funky weird metal. Just some semblence of density.

TF blastdoors didn't drop like a curtain, it took time to melt/sheer or whatever. That's all that is required for anti-saber armor. It doesn't have to be impervious to the damn things, just provide enough protection that in a fight you get out of it with all your limbs intact.

But add in the weight of the material to the likelyhood of facing a Jedi at close range and honestly the tactics involved in killing a Jedi, and a full kit of anti-lightsaber armor just doen't make sense.

The cortosis glove doesn't fit, we must aquit.

I'm not asking if it's cost-effective, I'm asking if, given the materials both natural (Before the Clone Wars, Mandalore was part of the Republic; I also have a hard time understanding why no other planets in the system would have these materials either) and synthetic as well as the knowledge, could the Republic mass-produce this stuff and how much would it affect the economy. I didn't ask 'Is this Cost Effective'.

If you really want to argue cost effectiveness, assume a time period where the Jedi and Sith can amass armies.

I rather suspect the cost effectiveness of those things WOULD affect the economy. Something fierce if they're expensive enough.

Wait, it's not an artificial compound? Are you saying it's mined on Mandalore? Nowhere else has it? Please tell me this isn't as retarded as bacta.

I wouldn't be surprised if it started out as a state/trade secret by the Mandalorian Crusaders and their arms manufacturers at war, and by the movie era is a registered trademark of some Mandalorian firm, or simply a "brand" of armor that must be from Mandalore to be marketed as "Mandalorian Iron" - like real Champagne sparkling wine must be from Champagne, by definition in law. Phrik could just be a generic popular term, generalization, or a transliterated acronym for some exotic composite in Basic (by translation/transliteration interpretation of Basic dialogue and text under SoD), of which "Mandalorian Iron" is just the most famous variety and made on Mandalore.

But I abhor the Dungeons and Dragons-esque "magic/funny ore/crystals/gem/metal that can only be mined on one planet for some reason and only occurs in some places, and has absurd physical properties despite being naturally-occurring...ooh isn't it fun to insert magic RPG nonsense into a sci-fi setting? hur hur!"

Yeah, I'd assumed it was manufactured, but Schatten kinda talks about it like it's physically limited to Mandalore. If so, that's retarded: the first Mandalorian killed would be sent to metallurgy labs, and there goes your trade secret.

Early on, it would make sense that the Mandalorians (being very anti-Jedi) would perfect and prefer a anti-lightsabre armour whereas others would find less use for it. There are all kinds of good reasons for it to be limited beyond 'lol magic rocks lol'. It's really quite sad that the EU has so much 'magic rock/animal' nonsense, when you'd think they'd have super-materials that far outstrip any natural substance. Take those stupid force-lizard things: you'd think if it was THAT EASY to defeat the force, they'd have build a simple device that did it, rather than relying on some stupid lizard bullshit. But noooooo.... And if anything is useful against lightsabres, you'd figure it'd be the result of deliberate development and not something someone dug up one day. Sigh.

CaptHawkeye wrote:

General Schatten wrote:

CaptHawkeye wrote:What next? Lightsaber spearmen?

You were saying?

New policy, no saying, 'At least they don't have light<weapon>'... you'll just be giving them ideas.

So God does exist. What else could explain these punishments seemingly aimed at us?

Cut them some slack. The lightspear actually makes some sense. It would be awkward for deflecting blaster bolts, but if you were facing off in melee combat, you'd have the advantage of reach.

Or it might be useful if, say, a Jedi was charging at you while riding a varactyl.

Don't get me wrong, the lightwhip is (more) impractical, and the lightsaberchucks are just plain retarded. But if Darth Maul and Exar Kun can get double-bladed lightsabers, I don't see why everyone else has to limit themselves to "Look, my one-handed single-bladed lightsaber has a slightly different-looking hilt than everyone else's! Plus its blade is a slightly brighter shade of blue/green/red!"

Stark wrote:Yeah, I'd assumed it was manufactured, but Schatten kinda talks about it like it's physically limited to Mandalore. If so, that's retarded: the first Mandalorian killed would be sent to metallurgy labs, and there goes your trade secret.

No, I didn't actually, I specifically said earlier that I'd find it hard to belief if the materials for the alloy were to only be found on Mandalore.

General Schatten wrote:I'm not asking if it's cost-effective, I'm asking if, given the materials both natural (Before the Clone Wars, Mandalore was part of the Republic; I also have a hard time understanding why no other planets in the system would have these materials either) and synthetic as well as the knowledge, could the Republic mass-produce this stuff and how much would it affect the economy. I didn't ask 'Is this Cost Effective'.

If you really want to argue cost effectiveness, assume a time period where the Jedi and Sith can amass armies.

WTF?

If it isn't cost effective than it could affect the economy especially when you're talking about billions of troops if not trillions in a galactic army.

Edit; to elaborate a bit. For a good comparison, look at the US war effort in WWII. They massively exanded and reequiped a huge army in a realitively short time. To make sure the factories had the resources as quick as possible to produce the equipment as soon as possible, wide spread rationing in the civilian secotors happened. Just a thought for you're 'would it affect the economy' question.

So could they? Sure, that can afford armor on their starships and blastdoors that are lightsaber resistent. The material exsists and even in the case of Vader, limited production if not a custom job. I see no reason why they couldn't mass produce it, the question is then 'why would they'.

Even in the PT there were only 10 thousand Jedi in the galaxy. With billions of troops to equip, spread accross one million member planets and millions more systems, the actual chances of comeing across a Jedi should be microscopic in odds.

General Schatten wrote: I didn't ask 'Is this Cost Effective'. .

As far as I can tell, that's exactly what you asked. The first question was "could it be mass-produced?", in which you defaulted a yes (canon doesn't seem absolute either way). The follow-up question then was "why didn't the Republic do so?"

You've got your answer.

I always assumed that Mandalorian Iron armor couldn't be massed produced because it was hand crafted by a Master'oa-osmitha, useing a secret'oa Ao'proceeduresoa and only during a full lunar eclipse on the planet Mandalor. The person being fitted for the armor only after he/she is deemed worthy by completing a Honor'oa quest'oa and trial by Combat'oa.

CaptHawkeye wrote:I await what further insults to European and Japanese fuedalistic history the EU has in store for us. What next? Lightsaber spearmen?

As for the uber armor, it's possible that the supply was lost throughout the thousands of years between the Mandolorian wars and CW. Or that advances in lightsaver technology made it impractical. Unless Vader's armor was a kind of Mandolorian armor.

Just what would be so bad about that? I mean, as a form of cerenmonial weapon, a lightspear would be very impressive, and actually more useable for normal troops.

Of course, it would be totally worthless against blasters and the like, but I can imagine combat droids armed with such analogs, used to board and capture starships.

I want to know why there isn't a combined lightsaber/blaster. It worked so well in Ulysses 31. Or has some remote part of the EU done this already and I missed it?

Starglider wrote:I want to know why there isn't a combined lightsaber/blaster. It worked so well in Ulysses 31. Or has some remote part of the EU done this already and I missed it?

I've always found gunblades to be about as idiotic as the lightsaberchucks, but of course in that regard history backs me up with the poor performance of gunblades.

Wouldn't be surprised if someone somewhere's done it, though.

Though there was this one guy in a Star Wars tabletop RPG I played in. We were all Jedi. This guy had a lightspear. But it wasn't an ordinary lightspear. Oh no, on end opposite the blade, he installed a launcher that fired small (but still high yield) rockets. Could only hold one round at a time, but still. Gotta love the ridiculousness of the lightspearzooka.

The same one to come up with lightchucks?

this reminds me of a web comic, 8-Bit Theater, in which the big dumb fighter said "swordchucks, yo!" but that was a fighter is stupid joke, not a serious proposal.

(name here) wrote:

The same one to come up with lightchucks?

this reminds me of a web comic, 8-Bit Theater, in which the big dumb fighter said "swordchucks, yo!" but that was a fighter is stupid joke, not a serious proposal.

I'm almost positive that he wields sword-chucks in a few strips against bosses, though, so...

Still, a gunsaber could be doable. Maybe may it underbarrel and have the pistol grip curved like Dooku's...

Or maybe even a lightbayonet.

Shadowtraveler wrote:

(name here) wrote:

The same one to come up with lightchucks?

this reminds me of a web comic, 8-Bit Theater, in which the big dumb fighter said "swordchucks, yo!" but that was a fighter is stupid joke, not a serious proposal.

I'm almost positive that he wields sword-chucks in a few strips against bosses, though, so...

Still, a gunsaber could be doable. Maybe may it underbarrel and have the pistol grip curved like Dooku's...

Or maybe even a lightbayonet.

You are correct, he does indeed wield the swordchucks, he also made staffchucks for black mage, which had the property of randomly casting various destructive spells.

Anyway, if a lightsaber is really just some oddly managed blaster bolt that is contained and bent on itself, then couldn't you make a simply gunsaber such that the protective forcefield stops, thus emitting the energy out like a blaster bolt? Although this would pose a problem of running out the battery far faster then normal.

avatarxprime wrote:Anyway, if a lightsaber is really just some oddly managed blaster bolt that is contained and bent on itself, then couldn't you make a simply gunsaber such that the protective forcefield stops, thus emitting the energy out like a blaster bolt? Although this would pose a problem of running out the battery far faster then normal.

No, that was the older lightsabers, they looked like link, and are described as 'frozen blaster technology' and most data says they are wholly different from newer lightsabers in all but appearence and use.

General Schatten wrote:No, that was the older lightsabers, they looked like link, and are described as 'frozen blaster technology' and most data says they are wholly different from newer lightsabers in all but appearence and use.

That's an odd picture. Since when was Hathor worshiped in the Star Wars galaxy ?

Anyway, the light-spear is one of the more sane inventions. Provided you coated it with 'electrum' (The list of things that'll block lightsabers is sometimes embarassing) or phrik or some such to prevent it simply being chopped in two.

It might even be practical for anti-blaster work if you could make it extend like the Minbari fighting pike from Babylon 5.

Civil War Man wrote:I've always found gunblades to be about as idiotic as the lightsaberchucks, but of course in that regard history backs me up with the poor performance of gunblades.

True but in real life a sword blade adds a lot of weight and completely unbalances a pistol, and quite probably vice versa. In a sci-fi setting for an energy blade, there isn't necessarily any extra weight over a normal heavy pistol and the balance issues won't be any worse than a normal sabre. The real challenge, assuming you have the tech to get all the components into a pistol casing, is designing a grip that works well for both applications.

Ultimate gunchucks strip.

NecronLord wrote:Provided you coated it with 'electrum' (The list of things that'll block lightsabers is sometimes embarassing) or phrik or some such to prevent it simply being chopped in two.

Luckily it has only the name and color in common with real electrum. Ah, and where's the quote from? The movie doesn't agree with the novel in this scene.

I've never heard of "electrum" having lightsaber-resistant properties (and even Wikipedia seems to disagree with that idea) so one has to question the claim.

General Schatten wrote:

avatarxprime wrote:Anyway, if a lightsaber is really just some oddly managed blaster bolt that is contained and bent on itself, then couldn't you make a simply gunsaber such that the protective forcefield stops, thus emitting the energy out like a blaster bolt? Although this would pose a problem of running out the battery far faster then normal.

No, that was the older lightsabers, they looked like link, and are described as 'frozen blaster technology' and most data says they are wholly different from newer lightsabers in all but appearence and use.

Maybe I wasn't clear, what I meant is that the energy of the blade folds back into itself.

Star Wars wiki wrote:An internal superconductor was introduced which transferred the returning looped energy from the negative-charged flux aperture back into an internal power cell. With this modification, the power cell would only expend power when the energy loop was broken (when the lightsaber blade cut into something)"

If you disable that the shot would simply come out like a blaster bolt, although the power would drain quickly.

Yeah i think this thread was hijacked somewhere in the first page. Either no one noticed or no one cared. Anyways...

Really, the lightspear is all right. What is really ridiculus is the lightreaper. Really? A lightreaper? Now that's just stupid. It's already bad enough enough to assume that any effective medieval weapon would rock as a light weapon, but the reaper isn't even a real weapon! It's a symbol, not a combat item, and just because the Grim Reaper wields it does not make it uber-awesome.