I'm sorry, I looked for "Stormbringer" and "removed" in my search. I wasn't aware not finding it made me a
liar. You may wish to be more cautious in your accusations, Stormie.
Where's the bit about why, again? I mean, you did say there was a why. If there's no why, does that make you a liar?
I don't really care what your personal opinions of me are or aren't. The fact of the matter is that three years ago the staff handled the matter so far as SDN is concerned and if you don't like that then it's just too bad for you. As far as the board is concerned the matter is over. And if that means that you can't possibly be civil or refrain from ranting about a vendetta then that's your problem, not mine.
Yes, the staff handled the matter. Does this mean I have to like you or put up with bullshit that's a thinly vieled vendetta of your own? No, it doesn't. You've misrepresented my points and constructed a strawman. Why? Because you can't read, or because you don't like me and are willing to misinterpret whatever I say into what you can most easily attack? Take your pick, because it's one or the other. Either you're a moron, or you've got your own axe to grind.
I've not said shit about Space Empires at any time. That was Beowulf's post, not mine.
I'm sorry, I assumed that you leaping to his defense again and supporting his point meant that you agreed with him, especially since you focused rather heavily on the rules bit yourself.
As for rules, it has to do with the idea that you think we're too stupid to manage with out setting up some iron-clad system. I don't mind a degree of regulation but given your contempt for what has been done in previous STGODs, I think we simply have a disagreement on how and what an STGOD should be.
To be fair, I don't think everyone here is stupid. I mean, you are, but you're not everyone. You're special.
Meanwhile, you keep saying over and over and OVER again that there's some sort of fundamental difference in how much regulation there should be. I've already drawn my line in the sand. Where's yours?
I would also note that my other reason, that you seem to have a disdain for STGODs, is drawn from the post in the very origin thread of this current game. And your paranoid, bitter ranting has hardly lead me to change my mind about your overall regard for such games.
I have a disdain for what STGODs have been. I have no interest in seeing another STGOD if it's just going to keep repeating the same mistakes that made all the previous ones unenjoyable.
Hotfoot wrote:Frankly, yes. STGODS are "dead art", and to be honest, I kind of hope it stays that way. Every STGOD I've witnessed has boiled down into a massive debate on how to play the game, virtually every battle sparked some kind of argument or another, one person would say such and such was a good idea, someone would say it's a bad idea, arguments would commence in the OOC thread, then whoever won the debate would invariably win the battle, unless they were feeling "gracious". Then you'd get into debates of what would make sense, what would be lame, etc., you'd always get some lame motherfucker trying to get some stupid technology approved so they could do some unblockable, untraceable shit without really putting any thought behind the plot. Invariably, by the time a sensible method of combat, ship construction, tech, etc. had been hammered out, the game was already over.
Add to this, any game that started with decent structure never went anywhere because people were informed enough not to make fucking stupid decisions, which of course are the catalyst for any STGOD, because the first person to fuck up calls in the bangbus, and only from that point can people capitalize on the lesser mistakes people made in joining the bangbus to start larger conflicts over a longer scale.
Moreover, these affairs are multi-month games with tremendous scale, but god help you if you're not online 24/7, because people will bitch you out for being offline for classes, work, or being in the fucking hospital, and if you miss one of the posting sprees, well tough shit for you.
I fail to see where in any of that I was calling for more and more rules, Stormbringer. Backpedal more, please.
Moreover, I fail to see how any of that was "paranoid". Bitter, sure, because several games that could have been good devolved into stupid bullshit. But then I don't have the memory of a goldfish like you do, so I guess the concept is alien.
Are you claiming that previous games were flawless? That my criticisms don't strike home are aren't relevant? That games haven't been brought to a grinding halt by the things I've mentioned, or that the enjoyment of players hasn't been reduced because of them? In a thread where everyone was seeing STGODs with rose-colored glasses, I showed everyone the shit that can happen, because you fucking can't go into one of these games with the attitude that everything will work itself out as you go. That's not worked well in the past, and franly it's just a general tenent of life. You have to plan what you do before you do it. While sitting around and waxing poetic about something is nice and all, if you go to Vegas without packing, getting money for gas, plane tickets, or whatnot, you're not going to get there very easily.
Now if people are willing to either change those flaws or deal with them, by all means, let them play. Most people seem willing to change the ones that need changing, but you are just whining that I showed things as they were.
Beowulf wrote:Hotfoot wrote:Tell me I'm wrong. Show me an example. Yes, I am implying that it's virtually impossible to organize an STGOD that's fun. Too much structure, and people bitch and moan that you're limiting their "creativity", too little structure, and people turn water into untraceable nukes. You can see right here in this thread that every person has a different idea on how to make an STGOD work, and many of them are mutually exclusive. Points, no points, more freedom, more mod control, etc. I'm sure if you ran a survey of how everyone would like to run an STGOD, you'll get a tremendous list of stuff that you really couldn't do anything with.
If people don't know what to expect from the game, they'll make their own assumptions, and they'll rabidly defend those assumptions when they are challenged, and unless they're really good debators or happen to have a reasonable assumption (and thus more support from other players), they're going to lose the debate, the battle, and quite possibly the game. They're going to be sore about it because if they had known what the result would have been beforehand, they would have altered their action to suit.
But make it so that everyone knows what to expect, and nobody makes a move, for fear of the bangbus.
You might not like that I'm pointing these things out, but frankly these are problems that need to be addressed any time someone suggests an STGOD if they expect it to go anywhere, on top of the usual, "who's going to be a mod" and other managerial stuff. So excuse me for taking the rose colored glasses off of your image of what an STGOD is, but how many times have you decided, "gosh, I had such a good time with the old ones, I wonder if we can get a new one started" and had it go nowhere now? Three times? Four? How many failed attempts have their been since STGOD4?
emphasis added.
You've been against this from the beginning, as shown by my and Stormy's quotes. Why the hell do you even want to mod this?
I've been against people going "lol let's STGOD wee" since the beginning because it's a fucking moronic attitude to take when trying to organize a game. The old games where far from flawless and the newer ones either didn't have the population to manage an effective game or ignored previous pitfalls that helped to ruin previous games. The only reason I'm even bothering to try modding this one is that it doesn't look like it's fucked to hell yet.
Meanwhile, neither one of you have said anything about my critisms of games past. Granted, part of that is probably because you know that you're both at the core of some of my most serious criticisms for what has helped to ruin otherwise halfway decent games.
Here's something you should maybe have highlighted instead:
Hotfoot wrote:You might not like that I'm pointing these things out, but frankly these are problems that need to be addressed any time someone suggests an STGOD if they expect it to go anywhere, on top of the usual, "who's going to be a mod" and other managerial stuff.
But I guess THAT wouldn't have made for as strong an argument against me, hm?
Look you two, the bottom line is that organizing and moderating a game is WORK, not just a fucking feather in your cap. It can be fun, but most of the time it's work, and an STGOD without effective structure or moderation might as well be a TGOD. If you think you can make an STGOD without doing the grutnwork to get it off the ground and keep it running, you're both insane. This sort of game is the sort that lasts months, possibly even years if done right, but it won't last a day if there isn't a proper structure in place and people willing to enforce the agreed upon rules in a fair manner.
What's most hilarious about all this is that once I pointed out the flaws from previous STGODs, I got people thinking about how to avoid them in THIS STGOD. You might not like my methods, and you might not like me, but I think the results speak for themselves.