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No Shit Sherlock. So are we, Ghost Rider only mentions the novel series one bit, mentioning how it is more lame than the comics.

It looked like you were only talking about LOTF, not the actual thread subject.

"When gone am I, the Last of the Jedi you will be..."

One of the most powerful lines in Ep VI, but it doesn't have the same meaning thanks to the EU.

Doesn't mean anything if there's people who are no longer Jedi. Remember Obi-Wan's little line from two films before? "I was once a Jedi Knight, same as your father." Also "Now the Jedi are all but extinct" does not automatically translate to "It's just me and some guy in a swamp".

Technically, there's nothing in the movies to suggest there are no more Jedi beyond Luke, Leia, Vader and Palps.

Aside from that, I dislike yet another "lol Tatooine"-connection. Then again, I cringed at the mention of Prequel-era Jedi from this planet in the first place, as well as the one from Naboo. Fucking small galaxy.
I'm going to wait and see if this story turns to shit, at least I get to read it for free, so there's no loss on my part.

As far as Quinlan Vos is concerned, I hate that guy and his faux drama with a passion. Republic 83 was wonderful up until he survived and met up with his tramp girlfriend. He's the main reason I awaited Legacy to be a disaster, but the writing seems better and the events are a little more entertaining.

Hett is Darth Krayt?

BULLSHIT.

How long was he on Korriban?

How many times would Palpatine (and possible Vader) have visited Korriban to speak with the Sith spirits? Palpatine is supposed to have done that on a regular basis. i.e Shortly after the Death Star was lunched.

Quite frankly, if Hett had been on Korriban when Vader or Palpatine had shown up, he'd have be dead so fucking fast...

Hell, even disregarding that, we'd effectively have TWO SEPERATE SITH ORDERS.

As in two rivals.

That completely, utterly, and totally disregards and SHITS on everything we knew of the modern Sith. One master, one apprentice. Not two competing franchises!

How long was he on Korriban?

Some time after the YV War, apparently. Darth Krayt was "born" around the time that war ended.

VT-16 wrote:Technically, there's nothing in the movies to suggest there are no more Jedi beyond Luke, Leia, Vader and Palps.

Oh? How about "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."

Mange wrote:

VT-16 wrote:Technically, there's nothing in the movies to suggest there are no more Jedi beyond Luke, Leia, Vader and Palps.

Oh? How about "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."

Yoda was probably not including Jedi who had given up using the Force or fallen to the Dark Side in there.

Solauren wrote:Quite frankly, if Hett had been on Korriban when Vader or Palpatine had shown up, he'd have be dead so fucking fast...

Then odds are he wasn't.

Hell, even disregarding that, we'd effectively have TWO SEPERATE SITH ORDERS.

Quite unlike the two Sith Orders between Ruusan and the Original Trilogy: Bane's Order and Darth Millenial's Prophets of the Dark Side.

As in two rivals.

That's assuming Krayt had created his Order while Bane's still existed.

That completely, utterly, and totally disregards and SHITS on everything we knew of the modern Sith. One master, one apprentice. Not two competing franchises!

You'd have a point except the fact Krayt isn't part of Bane's Order. The Sith Order formed after the Battle of Ruusan was destroyed six years after the Battle of Endor.

2 rival Sith Lords isn't something that hasn't happened before (infact that exactly was the reason for the Rule of 2) while Darth Caedus and Darth Krayt might be rivals (depending if Krayt was active then or not as Krayt wasn't "born" until after the Yuuzhan Vong war (whether Hett had already fallen to the Dark side or not is irrelevant) he cannot be a rival for Darth Sidious or Darth Vader.

I don't blame the writters exclusively for the amount of post purge Jedi. SW fans want Jedi. If Yoda and Obi Wan, were the last, as they should have been, they wouldn't be selling as many comics.

Luke brought the Jedi Order from 1 (him) to hundreds of Jedi in 40 years. Which is BS, since we have seen that even a Jedi as great as Obi Wan wasn't considered ready to be a Jedi until he was in his 20s. And he was trained since birth.
Luke was basically grabbing guys off the street and making them Jedi in less then 10 years. The only Jedi there should be, are the Solo kids since they actually had been training their entire lives.

As far as SW comics goes. I prefer Dark Times over Legacy. Mostly because it isn't trying to establish history or recreate it (rehash would be a better word). It is just a story set in a time period. And I like the art better, which to myself is more important than the writting. Go figure

Lord Revan wrote:

Mange wrote:

VT-16 wrote:Technically, there's nothing in the movies to suggest there are no more Jedi beyond Luke, Leia, Vader and Palps.

Oh? How about "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."

Yoda was probably not including Jedi who had given up using the Force or fallen to the Dark Side in there.

C'mon that is just silly. Why wouldn't Yoda include them. He had pretty much stopped using the Force as a common Jedi would, but he claimed himself as a Jedi.

If anything his time, 20 years, on Dagobah spent meditating and communing with Qui-Gon would have opened him up even more to the Force and he would know which Jedi were left.

I'm guessing that Yoda is a pretty good authority on the subject.

Mange wrote:

VT-16 wrote:Technically, there's nothing in the movies to suggest there are no more Jedi beyond Luke, Leia, Vader and Palps.

Oh? How about "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."

Please read the rest of my post where I use quotes from another film to justify my position.

havokeff wrote:He had pretty much stopped using the Force as a common Jedi would, but he claimed himself as a Jedi.

Unlike Obi-Wan, who said he was once a Jedi.

havokeff wrote:I don't blame the writters exclusively for the amount of post purge Jedi. SW fans want Jedi. If Yoda and Obi Wan, were the last, as they should have been, they wouldn't be selling as many comics.

This is not a new trend at all. There have been Old Republic Jedi since Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire.

Luke brought the Jedi Order from 1 (him) to hundreds of Jedi in 40 years. Which is BS, since we have seen that even a Jedi as great as Obi Wan wasn't considered ready to be a Jedi until he was in his 20s. And he was trained since birth.

It should be pointed out there haven't been many Jedi as great as Obi-Wan in Luke's order.

VT-16 wrote:

Mange wrote:

VT-16 wrote:Technically, there's nothing in the movies to suggest there are no more Jedi beyond Luke, Leia, Vader and Palps.

Oh? How about "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."

Please read the rest of my post where I use quotes from another film to justify my position.

I'm well aware of what you wrote, but you're stretching it too far. It's perfectly clear what the movies are conveying. Still, I agree that your position has merits as well.

TC Pilot wrote:

havokeff wrote:I don't blame the writters exclusively for the amount of post purge Jedi. SW fans want Jedi. If Yoda and Obi Wan, were the last, as they should have been, they wouldn't be selling as many comics.

This is not a new trend at all. There have been Old Republic Jedi since Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire.

Oh yeah, I know, but at least those were/are more plausible then Kryat is turning out to be. C'boath was a clone made BY Palpatine. Vima was a complete wretch and barely had any connection with the Force, and as silly as the King of SW Steampunk was, at least he had been lost in that funky cloud/space place and cut off from the rest of the galaxy.

Kryat is now suposed to have been around when Palpatine was at the height of his power? How dumb is that? It has been established that Palpatine was routinly hunting down other Dark Siders and either incorporating them into his New Order or destroying them. H ejust happened to MISS an up and coming Sith Lord?

Luke brought the Jedi Order from 1 (him) to hundreds of Jedi in 40 years. Which is BS, since we have seen that even a Jedi as great as Obi Wan wasn't considered ready to be a Jedi until he was in his 20s. And he was trained since birth.

It should be pointed out there haven't been many Jedi as great as Obi-Wan in Luke's order.

Good point. Maybe Anakin might have gotten there, but they killed him off.

What I find funny is that he was hiding out on Tatooine. Seriously, for a planet that is supposed to be a backwater no name hole on the edge of the galaxy, a whole freakin' lot of important traffic blows through there.

Gil Hamilton wrote:What I find funny is that he was hiding out on Tatooine. Seriously, for a planet that is supposed to be a backwater no name hole on the edge of the galaxy, a whole freakin' lot of important traffic blows through there.

Are you kidding?
Well... Jabba made it his base of operations, so some amount of interesting trafic should flow through there, but stll.

What really bothers me about the current EU is how blatantly formulaic it is and how it relies entierly on recyclinc old concepts (just like TNG era ST and onwards did, really.). And like ST its often poorly recycled concepts. Let's look

6 years post Endor: Dark Empire. New Republic falls apart. Understanable: No Jedi around, Palpy still active and a potent force in the galaxy, had been manipulatin gthings behind the scenes to ensure chaos and weaken the Republic. DE eventually kinda sucked but it still wasn't hard to believe. New republic eventually reforms.

Some 20-25 years later Coruscant falls to the Vong. Setting aside for a minute how crappy the Vong were, and how incompetent the New Republic was, it actually was somewhat plausible (if still stupid) - the Vong had undermined the galaxy for Decades supposedly, knowingly combating Palpatine and his efforts to unite against the predicted Vong incursion, and in wartime the Republic was lead by idiots. Though it did't really "fall" in the sense it reorganized like the Republic-Empire transition (though it was messier than in the Prequels.) I could still kind of buy that, even if I wish the Republic had been more competent and they'd picked a better enemy.

Legacy of the Force era: Now we're starting to see the blatant and poorly-conceived formulaic bullshit start, and its far more worse than anything in the NJO. So bad that not even Denning AND Allston together can salvage it. Anakin- err I mean Jacen, is treading the Path of the Sith because of love for Pad- I mean tenel Ka and his twin-err daughter. And Palp-I mean Lumiya is trying to manipulate him (and it further emphasizes the sadness of this seris to think of Lumiya as playing a Palpatine role.) The "Republic"- err GFFA is facing rebellion from the Confeder- Err Corellians and their allies, who want to secede from the REp-Err GFFA. Throw in some transparent 9/11 bullshit (w hich was ALSO thrown into the clone Wars for no fathomable reason.)

Basically you've got a rehash of the prequel era plot, right up to Jacen being as stupid, inconsistent, and psychotic as Anakin was.

Legacy era: the recycling becomes even more blatant and pathetic. Recycled Sith Order (complete with recycled clone wars era Jedi recycled from Tattooine.) The empire has arisen again (recycled), yet falls again to a transfer of power to a new Sith Lord (recycled from ROTS), and the GFFA once again FALLS in relatively short order. Apparently the concept of "galactic stability" that had characterized the REpublic for over a thousand years has been forgotten now, and the SW galaxy at this point has turned into 40K - where THERE IS ONLY WARRRR!!!! Minus orks and Eldar, that is.

I will admit they had the grace to actually let the Republic stay active for 100 years before recycling the plot, which is probably the longest period of "peace" in the Post ROTJ era, but that's not much given that we had to suffer through at least one "crisis" recycled from ealrier sources (and knowing the EU, there will be others.) Andthat grace is destroyed by the heavyhanded plagarism of earlier plots.

You know, maybe with all the reboots going on, they might do it for the EU... Well, I can dream anyway.

VT-16 wrote: Doesn't mean anything if there's people who are no longer Jedi. Remember Obi-Wan's little line from two films before? "I was once a Jedi Knight, same as your father." Also "Now the Jedi are all but extinct" does not automatically translate to "It's just me and some guy in a swamp".

Ooh good point, I suppose then I can forgive hack EU writers because of this bullshit technicality.

Technically, there's nothing in the movies to suggest there are no more Jedi beyond Luke, Leia, Vader and Palps.

Except for Yoda telling Luke that he is, you know, the Last of the Jedi. But hey, he's just Yoda what the fuck does he know?


EDIT: fixed quote tags.

havokeff wrote:You know, maybe with all the reboots going on, they might do it for the EU... Well, I can dream anyway.

The rehashing of all th eother plots qualify as reboots, they just don't want to admit it.

H ejust happened to MISS an up and coming Sith Lord?

Like I said in an earlier post in this very thread, he didn't become a Sith Lord until 19 years after Palpatine died.

As for rebooting, rebooting into WHAT? "Oh, so you didn't like our wars, well, they didn't happen! Oh and by the way, here's some wars. They're gonna contain some cool surprises and twists this time, we promise!"

If anything, Lucas and the higher ups care more about the tv series anyway these days. Haven't heard them do anything with the comics or books in any way.

Darth Fanboy wrote:Ooh good point, I suppose then I can forgive hack EU writers because of this bullshit technicality.

I didn't say anything about the stories or their quality, I refered to something that was in the fucking movies when you claimed the EU made that up.

Except for Yoda telling Luke that he is, you know, the Last of the Jedi. But hey, he's just Yoda what the fuck does he know?

Since Obi-Wan said two movies back that he used to be a Jedi, i.e. wasn't any more, I guess he's just a senile old fuck, then?

He also said Darth Vader killed and murdered his father, Obi Wan wasn't entirely being honest with Luke at this point.

Obi Wan saying that he was once a Jedi Knight does not implyin any way that there are more Jedi living elsewhere still alive. Obi Wan making a statement that implies he is no longer a Jedi Knight does not mean there are more! The whole Original Trilogy was about Luke fucking Skywalker becoming the last of the Jedi Knights, not about how he is training to kill the Emperor so that one day he can bring all the other Jedi back out of hiding and train new ones to face the evil organic tech threat and raise children to fight the Sith of the future when the Empire one day returns!

There is not ONE FUCKING PART of the Original Trilogy that claims that more Jedi survived the Purge! Granted because of the EU we now have that, but it still fucking cheapens the whole main storyline of the OT. So sorry if I think the EU fucked this one up pretty badly by keeping shitty comic characters alive past their usefulness.

havokeff wrote:Are you kidding?
Well... Jabba made it his base of operations, so some amount of interesting trafic should flow through there, but stll.

And Jabba was, what, on a galactic scale? Of the millions upon millions of star systems and worlds out there, people keep ending up on Tatooine or came from Tatooine or has fauna from Tatooine. It's a big galaxy, but they keep using the same locations.

Connor MacLeod wrote:Basically you've got a rehash of the prequel era plot, right up to Jacen being as stupid, inconsistent, and psychotic as Anakin was.

They even had the balls to name the Separatist (Confederacy of Independent Systems) rehash the freaking Confederation.

I haven't read a lot of the SW novels, even from the Bantam era. Despite how much I hear they suck, I've thought about reading some of them just to know what happens, and out of the possibility that I might actually enjoy them. But I don't think I even want to waste my time reading this Legacy of the Force series, which is so blatantly copying the prequel trilogy.

Gil Hamilton wrote:

havokeff wrote:Are you kidding?
Well... Jabba made it his base of operations, so some amount of interesting trafic should flow through there, but stll.

And Jabba was, what, on a galactic scale? Of the millions upon millions of star systems and worlds out there, people keep ending up on Tatooine or came from Tatooine or has fauna from Tatooine. It's a big galaxy, but they keep using the same locations.

Uh... yeah. I was agreeing with you.
It was like "Are you kidding? They put another main character on Tattooine? That is fucking stupid!"

VT-16 wrote:

H ejust happened to MISS an up and coming Sith Lord?

Like I said in an earlier post in this very thread, he didn't become a Sith Lord until 19 years after Palpatine died.

As for rebooting, rebooting into WHAT? "Oh, so you didn't like our wars, well, they didn't happen! Oh and by the way, here's some wars. They're gonna contain some cool surprises and twists this time, we promise!"

If anything, Lucas and the higher ups care more about the tv series anyway these days. Haven't heard them do anything with the comics or books in any way.

Yes. That is pretty much what a reboot is. It starts from the second the credits roll in ROTJ. I mean why not?
Marvel did it.
DC does it every 10-15 years.
Transformers just did it.
The Batman movies.
The Superman movies.

Marvel and DC do it to clean things up, and the movie franchises do it when they start to suck.
The SW EU falls equally into both these categories right now.