Posted: 2007-10-30 07:50pm
Publius hasn't finished restoring his website, so all of Test of Wills isn't availble. 

Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid ideas
http://stardestroyer.dyndns-home.com/
Like father, like son, eh?Ryan Thunder wrote:Who also suffered the most anti-climactic villain death in the whole saga. Seriously.Kurgan wrote:I would hazard to say that the present form of Episode II and III could be said to be a direct result of the strength of Fett-fanboyism.
So even if Fett-wanking existed prior to DE, it and sources like it gave it a major boost, and contributed (however indirectly) to Lucas inserting him into the SE and Prequels.
I mean for crying out loud... he's now a clone of his dad who is the template for the Stormtroopers and instrumental in the Clone Wars!
"His jetpack stopped working."
"No, dammit, I was looking forward to that fight. Now you've ruined it for me, asshole!"
The original trade paperback of DE had a bunch of liner-notes and annotations after the end which explained Palpatine's reasoning and why Luke fell, etc. Basically, it was supposed to be a grand arc about good intentions and ends justifying the means - Luke was supposed to reflect Ulic Qel-Droma's noble sacrifice of himself to infiltrate the Krath (as he does Palpatine) to destroy them from the inside when they are too strong to do so from without (much like Palpatine). Eventually this struggle between genuine collaboration or conversion and infiltration or sabotage amounts to a contest of wills between the two (hence the title of Publius' fan fic).Alexian Cale wrote:I'd personally call this writer's fiat, but as for an in-universe explanation, you must remember that Emperor Palpatine was losing his grasp on sanity by this point and losing rationality, which -- in some cases -- would make him even more dangerous. He's still brilliant and perceptive, he was aware from the beginning that Luke was rebelling (and I doubt Luke was aware of that), and he's certainly still Luke's intellectual superior by far. But his arrogance and desperation force him to accept Luke's ill intent because Palpatine is that determined to make him his apprentice.I've gone ahead and actually read the written sections after the comics (reference guides or something), and yeah, it's stated that Palpatine allowed Luke to betray him in little things (such as sending the Rebellion the code to destroy his World Devestators), and his idea is basically to the effect of "if my dark apprentice isn't full of anger and spunk, he's not worth it." But it still seems like Palpatine is overestimating his control over Luke, and Luke's purpose of turning to the Dark Side in the first place was to destroy Palpatine from within. And Palpatine knows that, yet he's still so full of himself that he lets Luke doing that. It would be excusable if Palpatine really acted like he was the master manipulator that he was (as opposed to a run-of-the-mill villain with neat gadgets and Force storms), but he's stupid enough to allow Leia to steal the Jedi holocron that he showed off to her. And stupid enough not to protect his cloning rooms better.
As for Leia stealing his holocron, again, you can credit this to hubris. I doubt he thought she'd attack him, since (if you remember), she tried it once before -- and he kicked the shit out of her without any real effort.
But I will say that Luke Skywalker was uberpowerful at this point. There probably wasn't enough that Palpatine could guard his chambers with that Luke wouldn't have eventually cut down anyways.
Thanks for the elaboration. It has been over a year since I've had the pleasure of reading Publius's novelization (which convinced me that Dark Empire should be novelized), but I do remember that he concluded that Luke's devotion to the light side of the Force was simply stronger than Sidious's devotion to the dark side, hence why he managed to best Sidious in their lightsaber duel.Illuminatus Primus wrote:The original trade paperback of DE had a bunch of liner-notes and annotations after the end which explained Palpatine's reasoning and why Luke fell, etc. Basically, it was supposed to be a grand arc about good intentions and ends justifying the means - Luke was supposed to reflect Ulic Qel-Droma's noble sacrifice of himself to infiltrate the Krath (as he does Palpatine) to destroy them from the inside when they are too strong to do so from without (much like Palpatine). Eventually this struggle between genuine collaboration or conversion and infiltration or sabotage amounts to a contest of wills between the two (hence the title of Publius' fan fic).Alexian Cale wrote:I'd personally call this writer's fiat, but as for an in-universe explanation, you must remember that Emperor Palpatine was losing his grasp on sanity by this point and losing rationality, which -- in some cases -- would make him even more dangerous. He's still brilliant and perceptive, he was aware from the beginning that Luke was rebelling (and I doubt Luke was aware of that), and he's certainly still Luke's intellectual superior by far. But his arrogance and desperation force him to accept Luke's ill intent because Palpatine is that determined to make him his apprentice.I've gone ahead and actually read the written sections after the comics (reference guides or something), and yeah, it's stated that Palpatine allowed Luke to betray him in little things (such as sending the Rebellion the code to destroy his World Devestators), and his idea is basically to the effect of "if my dark apprentice isn't full of anger and spunk, he's not worth it." But it still seems like Palpatine is overestimating his control over Luke, and Luke's purpose of turning to the Dark Side in the first place was to destroy Palpatine from within. And Palpatine knows that, yet he's still so full of himself that he lets Luke doing that. It would be excusable if Palpatine really acted like he was the master manipulator that he was (as opposed to a run-of-the-mill villain with neat gadgets and Force storms), but he's stupid enough to allow Leia to steal the Jedi holocron that he showed off to her. And stupid enough not to protect his cloning rooms better.
As for Leia stealing his holocron, again, you can credit this to hubris. I doubt he thought she'd attack him, since (if you remember), she tried it once before -- and he kicked the shit out of her without any real effort.
But I will say that Luke Skywalker was uberpowerful at this point. There probably wasn't enough that Palpatine could guard his chambers with that Luke wouldn't have eventually cut down anyways.
Do you mean that this idea should be implemented? Or are you saying that it was possible the entire time?Battlehymn Republic wrote:What does anyone feel about my idea of having Anakin return as a Force ghost at some point in DE to give Leia guidance/redeem Luke/pull Palpatine's spirit into Space Hell? Is that a cheesy idea, or does he still merit some visible role after ROTJ?
That'd be cool.Battlehymn Republic wrote:It's just a wild idea from me to connect Palpatine's return with the prophecy of the Chosen One (which was entirely nonexistent back when DE was conceived and made). I don't think it was possible, because I'm pretty sure Anakin's space ghost didn't do anything after ROTJ.
Anakin's Force ghost appears to Leia in The Truce at Bakura, and to Jacen Solo in The Unifying Force. He apparently also appears to Cade Skywalker in Legacy.Battlehymn Republic wrote:It's just a wild idea from me to connect Palpatine's return with the prophecy of the Chosen One (which was entirely nonexistent back when DE was conceived and made). I don't think it was possible, because I'm pretty sure Anakin's space ghost didn't do anything after ROTJ.
I must say that Fett should not have come back. Especially if that would've ended the wank.NecronLord wrote:I don't mind the "Fett-wank" of the prequels so much. Jango is a cool guy with a rocket pack and some guns. What's wrong with that?
Where various EU writers have taken that and written at length about all the admirable things he taught his clones, how wonderful Mandalorian culture is and such, that's just silly.
I think it would be an idea of merit; check out the Dark Emperor fanfic on theForce dot net. The series does connect the strings of Dark Empire to Palpatine's life and maturation, including how and when he discovered the secret. It also has Anakin warning Luke than Palpatine may return from death after Endor.Battlehymn Republic wrote:What does anyone feel about my idea of having Anakin return as a Force ghost at some point in DE to give Leia guidance/redeem Luke/pull Palpatine's spirit into Space Hell? Is that a cheesy idea, or does he still merit some visible role after ROTJ?
Well having spoken with him on the subject of themes, its basically an outgrowth of the duels between Sidious and Windu and Sidious and Yoda. Windu skirts the dark side and gives himself completely over to Vapaad - he is willing to die to destroy the Dark Lord, and Sidious isn't that willing to win, so he loses. Likewise, Yoda's preoccupation with the light side and his inability to totally give himself over causes him to "not have it" and to have "never had it" according to the ROTS novel. In ToW, Luke simply wants to protect his sister and unborn nephew from Palpatine beyond the value of his own life. He's willing to die to protect them. Palpatine isn't so willing. So he can't win.Alexian Cale wrote: Thanks for the elaboration. It has been over a year since I've had the pleasure of reading Publius's novelization (which convinced me that Dark Empire should be novelized), but I do remember that he concluded that Luke's devotion to the light side of the Force was simply stronger than Sidious's devotion to the dark side, hence why he managed to best Sidious in their lightsaber duel.
Would you say that this has merit to it? Because it's fairly obvious that, even then, Luke's Force powers are still inferior to Sidious's own (hence why Leia and the unborn Anakin Solo had to combine their power with Luke to stop the Emperor's Force Storm).
What could have been an interesting 'end' for Boba in Ep 6 is have him dueling Chewie and Lando on the barge, while Luke is busy cleaning up Jabba's barge.Ryan Thunder wrote:Who also suffered the most anti-climactic villain death in the whole saga. Seriously.
Sweet. Thanks Publius!Publius wrote:The desire to minimize the abruptness of Fett's return is one of the reasons why he is never referred to by name in The Test of Wills (the other being to restore him to his original role as "the man with no name" from The Empire Strikes Back, complete with jangling spurs). At the risk of being accused of self-promotion, The Test of Wills is being slowly restored to the Domus Publica site; in the meantime, it is available for download here.
Hey, don't get me wrong; I'm no fanboy. I was just looking forward to something a tad more interesting than "ZOMG teh jetpack dozn't work!"Kurgan wrote:Like father, like son, eh?Ryan Thunder wrote:Who also suffered the most anti-climactic villain death in the whole saga. Seriously.Kurgan wrote:I would hazard to say that the present form of Episode II and III could be said to be a direct result of the strength of Fett-fanboyism.
So even if Fett-wanking existed prior to DE, it and sources like it gave it a major boost, and contributed (however indirectly) to Lucas inserting him into the SE and Prequels.
I mean for crying out loud... he's now a clone of his dad who is the template for the Stormtroopers and instrumental in the Clone Wars!
"His jetpack stopped working."
"No, dammit, I was looking forward to that fight. Now you've ruined it for me, asshole!"
Seriously though, I think Lucas is "torn" between wanting to capitalize on the desires of fanboys, but also wanting to stick it to them with "his" vision of how things are (ie: not "admitting" he "made a mistake" in not making Boba Fett more prominent and giving him a "death worthy of ..." whatever).
I like that. I like that a LOT.Coalition wrote:What could have been an interesting 'end' for Boba in Ep 6 is have him dueling Chewie and Lando on the barge, while Luke is busy cleaning up Jabba's barge.Ryan Thunder wrote:Who also suffered the most anti-climactic villain death in the whole saga. Seriously.
They duel for a bit, but Lando is essentially an administrator, and Chewie has not been in good shape due to the improsonment, so Boba steadily overpowers them. It ends with Boba pointing his gun at Han, ready to pull the trigger.
Luke & Leia swing back, and we see the barge starting to blow up.
Boba looks at the barge, and asks L/L is Jabba was on board. Leia confirms so, and Boba puts his gun away. When Han asks him why, Boba explains that the Bounty on Han no longer applies, as Jabba is dead. He calls his ship, and just leaves.
All I got was a bunch of jibberish, Publius, for whatever reason.Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Sweet. Thanks Publius!Publius wrote:The desire to minimize the abruptness of Fett's return is one of the reasons why he is never referred to by name in The Test of Wills (the other being to restore him to his original role as "the man with no name" from The Empire Strikes Back, complete with jangling spurs). At the risk of being accused of self-promotion, The Test of Wills is being slowly restored to the Domus Publica site; in the meantime, it is available for download here.
That's 100 times better than most of the shit in the EU. Have you or Coalition written any fanfics featuring Mandalorians?Galvatron wrote:I like that. I like that a LOT.Coalition wrote:What could have been an interesting 'end' for Boba in Ep 6 is have him dueling Chewie and Lando on the barge, while Luke is busy cleaning up Jabba's barge.Ryan Thunder wrote:Who also suffered the most anti-climactic villain death in the whole saga. Seriously.
They duel for a bit, but Lando is essentially an administrator, and Chewie has not been in good shape due to the improsonment, so Boba steadily overpowers them. It ends with Boba pointing his gun at Han, ready to pull the trigger.
Luke & Leia swing back, and we see the barge starting to blow up.
Boba looks at the barge, and asks L/L is Jabba was on board. Leia confirms so, and Boba puts his gun away. When Han asks him why, Boba explains that the Bounty on Han no longer applies, as Jabba is dead. He calls his ship, and just leaves.
In fact, that would be his "Han shoots first" moment when he does something that's so fitting for his character that it seems stupid to do it any other way. I could even imagine the dialogue.
Han: "What are you doing? Giving up?"
Fett: "No. I'm just unemployed now."
Or something to that effect.