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Vympel wrote:Not so much his obession with the Skywalkers (justified) as his overestimation of Vader's loyalty, IMO.

Irrelevent. We're talking Dark Empire here.

In order to avoid having to concede the point completely I point to the fact that Thrawn would have returned as a clone in the Hand of Thrawn Duology also if Luke and Mara had not sabotaged the clone's development.

Without him and the revelation that the Thrawn leading the Imperial forces was a sham forced the Galactic Empire into a peace treaty with the Republic.

This all took place after Dark EMpire, athankyou

BAM!

I'll admit i'm kinda stretching it with that one though.

In any case would the Imperial Remnant joining the Galactic Alliance include the Chiss as well?

Darth Fanboy wrote:In order to avoid having to concede the point completely I point to the fact that Thrawn would have returned as a clone in the Hand of Thrawn Duology also if Luke and Mara had not sabotaged the clone's development.

... What part of "the central government of the Empire disintegrated after Palpatine's death" do you not understand?

If the U.S. was conquered, and a later Rebellion restored a "United States of America" it would not be the same U.S.

The genetic fluff in the tank is irrelevent.

Concession Accepted.

Darth Fanboy wrote:Without him and the revelation that the Thrawn leading the Imperial forces was a sham forced the Galactic Empire into a peace treaty with the Republic.

I hate it when people read the EU and conclude that a "threat" to the New Republic is syonymous with "doom which will destroy the Republic totally and automatically resurrect the Empire."

Darth Fanboy wrote:In any case would the Imperial Remnant joining the Galactic Alliance include the Chiss as well?

The Chiss' dominion, Syndic Mitth'raw'norudo's House Phalanx, and the Imperial Remnant are seperate and independent entities.

The former two would almost certainly not join the Galactic Alliance. The latter, maybe.

I hate it when people read the EU and conclude that a "threat" to the New Republic is syonymous with "doom which will destroy the Republic totally and automatically resurrect the Empire."

I never said nor intended that. But the revelation of Tierce's hoaz was a severe blw to an Empire that showed it was still capable of fighting back. Just because i gave you one point about Dark EMpire doesn't give you the right to tell me what my thoughts are regarding the EU.
'

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
The Chiss' dominion, Syndic Mitth'raw'norudo's House Phalanx, and the Imperial Remnant are seperate and independent entities.

The former two would almost certainly not join the Galactic Alliance. The latter, maybe.

A quote of the cover text on the third book of Force Heretic, Force Heretic: Reunion.

In the depths of uncharted space, Luke, Jacen and Mara are set to recruit the most remarkable of allies. But this powerful force refuses to join the bloody and miserable war engulfing the galaxy. As Luke attempts to negotiate a reluctant partnership, the Yuuzhan Vong strike to shatter this tenuous alliance. In the path of the attack are Han and Leia, who once again face overwhelmingly terrible odds.

Now it could be Zenoma Sekot, but I doubt it; how much could the resources of one world contribute to a galaxy spanning war? It was barely able to beat back a single scout ship. Much more likely is the Chiss, though it could be the Ssiruuk.

And here are the covers

Remnant
Refugee
That is a ssi-ruuk the jedi is facing there, no doubt about it. Jaws open like a Raptor, holding a paddle beamer. I just wish I knew who the Jedi was.
Reunion
Looks like the Jacen-Dani thing might be right afterall. Personally, I liked him and Tenel Ka better. What is it about those of the Skywalker bloodline going for older men/women? Aniken and Padme, Leia and Han, Luke and Mara, Jaina and Jag, Jacen and Tenel or Danni... Aniken Solo was the only one different, and he died.

And the cover text for Refugee is
Luke Skywalker and his most trusted of Jedi venture into the heart of the Unknown Regions, seeking to unravel the mystery of Zonama Sekot, the rogue planet that may hold the key to victory against the Yuuzhan Vong. Meanwhile, on the edge of known space, on a world once loyal to the New Republic, the Yuuzhan Vong are stirring up long-forgotten vendettas. As Han and Leia continue their vital diplomatic missions, betrayal and deception await them.

I'm thinking the Vendettas are the Quarren-MonCal ones.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Vympel wrote:Not so much his obession with the Skywalkers (justified) as his overestimation of Vader's loyalty, IMO.

Irrelevent. We're talking Dark Empire here.

Ah- didn't notice.

Now it could be Zenoma Sekot, but I doubt it; how much could the resources of one world contribute to a galaxy spanning war? It was barely able to beat back a single scout ship. Much more likely is the Chiss, though it could be the Ssiruuk.

It is Zonoma Sekot, I know this for certain. I'm not quite sure I remember where I heard it was Zonoma Sekot, but you can just take my word for it, if you want.

That is a ssi-ruuk the jedi is facing there, no doubt about it. Jaws open like a Raptor, holding a paddle beamer. I just wish I knew who the Jedi was.

It looks like a very androgynous Kyp Durron to me.

this could get interesting, Ssi Ruuk that steal life to power thier machines going up against a civ that reveres life and hates machines.

Maybe we'll get some insight regarding the Chiss/Ssi Ruuk war?

Durran Korr wrote: It is Zonoma Sekot, I know this for certain. I'm not quite sure I remember where I heard it was Zonoma Sekot, but you can just take my word for it, if you want.

Alright then

It looks like a very androgynous Kyp Durron to me.

kyp has a purple sabre

It might be Kyp but depending on the length of Jacen Solo's hair im gonna say its him or maybe Zekk.

Darth Fanboy wrote:It might be Kyp but depending on the length of Jacen Solo's hair im gonna say its him or maybe Zekk.

It IS Zanoma Sekot. This has been said in interviews, IIRC.

The Chiss are xenophobic and comparitively weak (still getting back to Ossus on that) and it is about Zanoma Sekot's living nature that it is valuable.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Chiss are xenophobic and comparitively weak (still getting back to Ossus on that) and it is about Zanoma Sekot's living nature that it is valuable.

It's "Zonama Sekot", not the way you spelled it.

Darth Fanboy wrote:

It might be Kyp but depending on the length of Jacen Solo's hair im gonna say its him or maybe Zekk.

It IS Zanoma Sekot. This has been said in interviews, IIRC. The Chiss are xenophobic and comparitively weak (still getting back to Ossus on that) and it is about Zanoma Sekot's living nature that it is valuable.

Wait a sec I was talking about the Jedi on the cover, not the planet

OK, I grabbed this book earlier this afternoon and finished it in about 4 1/2 hours. It's a pretty good book, in my opinion; as far as the NJO goes, it's not quite in the same league as Star by Star or Traitor, but it's still pretty good. It was interesting to see some of the more undeveloped characters, like Saba, get a lot of emphasis in the book. Anyway, SPOILERS BELOW.





















OK, if you don't want the book spoiled, don't read. I'll try to be vague with some of these.

Kyle Katarn still exists somewhere within SW continuity. He is briefly mentioned early in the book.

Leia, Han, Jaina, and Jag depart on a series of diplomatic missions.

Luke, Mara, Jacen and co. go off to the Unknown Regions and The Empire in search of Zonoma Sekot. They go to ask the Empire permission to explore first, and arrive to find the Empire quite frankly getting its butt handed to itself by the Yuuzhan Vong, who have finally attacked it. The Vong take Bastion, killing millions of Imperial citizens and enslaving many more. Pellaeon himself would have likely died had not Luke and co. shown up.

Although I will not directly reveal what was to me the biggest surprise of the book, let's just say that after a Vong attack on a certain planet, there will not be another Black Fleet Crisis, so to speak.

Tahiri is borderline insane for much of this book.

After acquiring New Republic tactics on how to successfully deal with the Yuuzhan Vong, the Empire (again, with the help of Luke and co.) manages to beat back the Yuuzhan Vong, for the time being. Also, let me say this; even though he almost gets killed (twice), even though he spends much of the novel in a bacta tank, Pellaeon is THE MAN in this book. He basically makes both a Yuuzhan Vong commander and an insubordinate Moff his bitches.

The Empire has formed an alliance with the Galactic Alliance, thanks largely to Pellaeon. Hell, he even gave Luke and co. an Imperial escort to take them through the Empire and the Unknown Regions in search of Zonoma Sekot.

At the end, Leia and Han fly off to Bakura, around where the Ssi-ruuk are again active.

Luke, Mara, Jacen and co. go off to the Unknown Regions and The Empire in search of Zonoma Sekot. They go to ask the Empire permission to explore first, and arrive to find the Empire quite frankly getting its butt handed to itself by the Yuuzhan Vong, who have finally attacked it. The Vong take Bastion, killing millions of Imperial citizens and enslaving many more. Pellaeon himself would have likely died had not Luke and co. shown up.

NOOOOOOO!!!! NJO MUST DIE!!! They can't let Bastion fall to alien scum! ARG!

Heh. My claims about the Remnant were proved true.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Heh. My claims about the Remnant were proved true.

Pellaeon himself said the Empire at it's height couldn't have beaten the Yuuzhan Vong, if that matters for anything.

Well at least some Imperial, namley Pelleaon, is still a badass. Galactic Alliance my foot. Long live the Empire! I betcha Pelleaon has an ace up his sleeve I do. *mutters* He damned well better....

Durran Korr wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Heh. My claims about the Remnant were proved true.

Pellaeon himself said the Empire at it's height couldn't have beaten the Yuuzhan Vong, if that matters for anything.

Pelleon was operating off of projections of YV fleet strength. Nom Anor and the YV believe that the Empire would have squashed the YV.

Borderline insane? Tahiri seemed fine in Enemy Lines.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Durran Korr wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Heh. My claims about the Remnant were proved true.

Pellaeon himself said the Empire at it's height couldn't have beaten the Yuuzhan Vong, if that matters for anything.

Pelleon was operating off of projections of YV fleet strength. Nom Anor and the YV believe that the Empire would have squashed the YV.

Like I said, if it matters for anything.

The beating the Remnant takes at the hands of the Vong is similar to the early Vong victories against the NR; the Remnant is so taken by surprise by Vong warfare style and Vong technology that they don't know how to deal with it. After Luke and Co. arrive with the needed information (and years of experience of dealing with the Vong), the Imperials come back pretty successfully.

Durran Korr wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Heh. My claims about the Remnant were proved true.

Pellaeon himself said the Empire at it's height couldn't have beaten the Yuuzhan Vong, if that matters for anything.

Excuses.

People were claiming the pitiful Remnant would do so much better against the Vong when the Republic had been easily 1000 sectors, and the Remnant is fucking 8.

The Remnant is only pitiful in my eyes because its a bastard confederation of warlords w/ some bueracrats and an officers who took two generations to make captain as a dictator fancying itself as the Empire. Sick. Just let it die if you're going to subject it's memory to that.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

Durran Korr wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Heh. My claims about the Remnant were proved true.

Pellaeon himself said the Empire at it's height couldn't have beaten the Yuuzhan Vong, if that matters for anything.

Excuses.

People were claiming the pitiful Remnant would do so much better against the Vong when the Republic had been easily 1000 sectors, and the Remnant is fucking 8.

The Remnant is only pitiful in my eyes because its a bastard confederation of warlords w/ some bueracrats and an officers who took two generations to make captain as a dictator fancying itself as the Empire. Sick. Just let it die if you're going to subject it's memory to that.

Hey, I'm agreeing with you completely. If Luke and co. hadn't shown up when they did it doesn't seem unreasonable that the Vong would have finished the Remnant in a very short time.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Excuses.

People were claiming the pitiful Remnant would do so much better against the Vong when the Republic had been easily 1000 sectors, and the Remnant is fucking 8.

The Remnant is only pitiful in my eyes because its a bastard confederation of warlords w/ some bueracrats and an officers who took two generations to make captain as a dictator fancying itself as the Empire. Sick. Just let it die if you're going to subject it's memory to that.

Wellthatwas weird. What was claimed there (and not necesarily true) is the Empire at its HEIGHT (ie-TESB era or something) wouldn't have been able to handle the Vong.

He nowhere mentioned the Remnant. Not that I think the Imperials could have beaten the Vong with only their Remnant anyways. But at its HEIGHT, according to Nom Anor, the Empire could've handled the YV.

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Excuses.

People were claiming the pitiful Remnant would do so much better against the Vong when the Republic had been easily 1000 sectors, and the Remnant is fucking 8.

The Remnant is only pitiful in my eyes because its a bastard confederation of warlords w/ some bueracrats and an officers who took two generations to make captain as a dictator fancying itself as the Empire. Sick. Just let it die if you're going to subject it's memory to that.

Wellthatwas weird. What was claimed there (and not necesarily true) is the Empire at its HEIGHT (ie-TESB era or something) wouldn't have been able to handle the Vong.

He nowhere mentioned the Remnant. Not that I think the Imperials could have beaten the Vong with only their Remnant anyways. But at its HEIGHT, according to Nom Anor, the Empire could've handled the YV.

Of course, and Nom Anor is obviously more in touch with the history of the Imperial military than a fucking Grand Admiral...