Is Clinton Dirty Tricks proving Obama not ready?

[Stravo]

On Fox News the other night they had Dick Morris on and while I usually blow him off whenever he talks about the Clintons you should sit up and notice because he knows them all too well and some of the things he predicts they end up doing, He predicted the Clintons would drag race into this right at the start of the campaign, even going so far as predicting that Bill would be the attack dog on that issue.

He stated that Hillary's strategy will now turn to pushing for these states that have had their delegates frozen out to be reinstated and she will cloak it in terms of "We want every voice to be heard." bullshit and all it is is a naked grab for more delegates to put her over the top. He noted she was the last candidate to sign the agreement about not actively campaigning in those states and agreeing to not accepting those delegates.

She is such a wanton oppurtunist and just unlikable bitch that it really upsets me that she is still in the running and has a very good chance at actually pulling this through. It says a lot too that the Republicans are really hoping that she gets nominated. They know they can have a field day with her during the election. Sean Hannity is virtually masturbating to the idea of a Clinton candidacy.

The party really needs to think about this one. Hillary is one of the most polarizing figure in US politics right now and you have an inspirational candidate with very few apparent negatives on the other hand who is energizing the young and making people excited about the one thing the Dems should be running on - change. Reject this woman now before it is too late.

[Darth Wong]

Why should anyone be surprised that the Clintons are trying to use race to their advantage? They're from Arkansas, for fuck's sake.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Right-on, Stravo; an intra-party Obama-swiftboating followed by a Clinton candidacy, especially a failed one, will send the younger generation back from the polls and years more irrelevancy for the Democrats. They have a huge opportunity here, so many activists and voters I know want to turn out for Obama being able to vote for the first time and having never known anything but a Bush White House. Do the Democrats want to capture the loyalty and vigor of these up-and-coming voters?

[Darth Wong]

Heh. Both of the Clintons would be considered arch-conservatards here in Canada. Hell, by signing the DoMA, Bill Clinton did more to hurt gay marriage than Bush did. Maybe the younger crowd is into Obama because they hope he'll offer them something genuinely different.

[Illuminatus Primus]

It is; as I said in the other thread not only am I an active Obama supporter, but I reject this whole "Clinton experience" thing or "we want Bill back" sentiment. I don't believe in Republitards gross distortion of Clinton's '90's record on bullshit like terrorism, but it stands to reason that many of the systemic problems we dealt with these 8 year and will have to the next 8 years are the product of irresponsible stewardship by Bill Clinton's administration. We want Obama because he really is, I don't know...an opposition.

[Adrian Laguna]

Heh. Both of the Clintons would be considered arch-conservatards here in Canada.

The Duchess will have to forgive me if she didn't want her opinion known, but she said a while back that if Hillary Clinton were a Republican, the entire right wing of the United States (save the perhaps the Evangelicans) would be tripping overthemselves to show their support for her.

[Uraniun235]

She is such a wanton oppurtunist and just unlikable bitch that it really upsets me that she is still in the running and has a very good chance at actually pulling this through. It says a lot too that the Republicans are really hoping that she gets nominated. They know they can have a field day with her during the election. Sean Hannity is virtually masturbating to the idea of a Clinton candidacy.

As one of my professors put it, the Republicans have been dreaming about how to campaign against her for over a decade. They know exactly how they would run a campaign against her. I'm not sure why so many Democrats think this makes for a good Presidential candidate.

[Darth Wong]

Mind you, I'm sure they have a gameplan for Obama too, and it probably has a lot to do with an up-front attack on his "patriotism" combined with a down-under attack on his race.

[Surlethe]

The party really needs to think about this one. Hillary is one of the most polarizing figure in US politics right now and you have an inspirational candidate with very few apparent negatives on the other hand who is energizing the young and making people excited about the one thing the Dems should be running on - change. Reject this woman now before it is too late.

My grandfather is 88, a bit racist, conservative, watches Fox News, and he's said he thinks Obama is the "next Lincoln". It's not just young people getting excited about him. He's a real breath of fresh air; even if it's just rhetoric, since there's little substantial difference between his platforms and Clinton's, the rhetoric makes a difference.

[Stravo]

The party really needs to think about this one. Hillary is one of the most polarizing figure in US politics right now and you have an inspirational candidate with very few apparent negatives on the other hand who is energizing the young and making people excited about the one thing the Dems should be running on - change. Reject this woman now before it is too late.

My grandfather is 88, a bit racist, conservative, watches Fox News, and he's said he thinks Obama is the "next Lincoln". It's not just young people getting excited about him. He's a real breath of fresh air; even if it's just rhetoric, since there's little substantial difference between his platforms and Clinton's, the rhetoric makes a difference.

My dad, arch conservative and a bit of a rascist too was really impressed with Obama's opening speech during the Kerry Nomination at the Democratic convention. His response went along the lines of "Wow. He might be a candidate some day."

I remember that speech too and it made me sit up and take notice. If Obama can get past the fucking Clinton smear machine and dirty tricks brigade we might have ourselves a real exciting election this year. We have stodgy old crazy white guy in the form of McCain and exciting young vibrant agent for change in Obama. I think nothing sums up the difference between both parties than that.

[Guardsman Bass]

Mind you, I'm sure they have a gameplan for Obama too, and it probably has a lot to do with an up-front attack on his "patriotism" combined with a down-under attack on his race.

Don't forget the under-handed smear attack on his religion, by trying to imply that he's a Muslim Manchurian Candidate (when the guy has been a Christian for nigh on 12 years as part of one church).

That's mostly what I'm worried about with Obama. We all know that Clinton will probably get slimed out the fucking ass, but I'm wondering what the 527 Groups will do on Obama (namely, I'm wondering if some equivalent to the 2004 Swiftboaters will actually produce a television ad calling him an Evil Stinking Muslim).

[Adrian Laguna]

That's mostly what I'm worried about with Obama. We all know that Clinton will probably get slimed out the fucking ass, but I'm wondering what the 527 Groups will do on Obama (namely, I'm wondering if some equivalent to the 2004 Swiftboaters will actually produce a television ad calling him an Evil Stinking Muslim).

Thing is, Obama has this charm about him. It's possible he could bitchslap the bastards and make them look like fools and still look like he hasn't sunk to their level. Though quite frankly I think their effect is overstated, Kerry was going to lose in 2004 regardless.

[Fire Fly]

If Clinton wins the nomination, she can kiss the new voters and the independents Obama is bringing in goodbye. She does not have the political acumen of Bill nor does she have his charm. Republicans might not like McCain but I'm sure they'll vote McCain (if he wins) just to spite her. A Clinton nomination will unite the Republicans like Bush unites the Democrats.

[CaptainChewbacca]

[quote="StravoI remember that speech too and it made me sit up and take notice. If Obama can get past the fucking Clinton smear machine and dirty tricks brigade we might have ourselves a real exciting election this year. We have stodgy old crazy white guy in the form of McCain and exciting young vibrant agent for change in Obama. I think nothing sums up the difference between both parties than that.[/quote]

I think Obama is really becomming the candidate people WANT to believe in. Hope he lasts.

[Patrick Degan]

Right-on, Stravo; an intra-party Obama-swiftboating followed by a Clinton candidacy, especially a failed one, will send the younger generation back from the polls and years more irrelevancy for the Democrats. They have a huge opportunity here, so many activists and voters I know want to turn out for Obama being able to vote for the first time and having never known anything but a Bush White House. Do the Democrats want to capture the loyalty and vigor of these up-and-coming voters?

There's the rub.

If the theory advanced by the late historian Walter Karp is valid, the controlling party machine (in this case, the DLC), would easily sacrifice elections simply to keep an iron grip on power within the party and to discourage activists from attempting to stand up and demand their say, since they represent the primary threat to that power. Which means in terms of the present contest that they would do everything to discourage the loyalty and vigor of young voters and grass-roots insurgents and the surest way to accomplish that is to sabotage the Activist (Obama) candidate by every means necessary to put the nomination in the hands of the Party Hack (Hillary).

[brianeyci]

Well then there is hope.

Hillary is looking more and more like the maverick now, whining for the DNC to let in the rogue states. Let's hope rules and red tape prevails and they're incensed enough at Hillary flaunting the rules that they crush her.

Not even Hillary can stand up to the bludgeon of bureaucracy.

[Illuminatus Primus]

There's the rub.

If the theory advanced by the late historian Walter Karp is valid, the controlling party machine (in this case, the DLC), would easily sacrifice elections simply to keep an iron grip on power within the party and to discourage activists from attempting to stand up and demand their say, since they represent the primary threat to that power. Which means in terms of the present contest that they would do everything to discourage the loyalty and vigor of young voters and grass-roots insurgents and the surest way to accomplish that is to sabotage the Activist (Obama) candidate by every means necessary to put the nomination in the hands of the Party Hack (Hillary).

I think Kennedy's endorsement shows at least some cracks in the facade of the Old Guard.

[Patrick Degan]

There's the rub.

If the theory advanced by the late historian Walter Karp is valid, the controlling party machine (in this case, the DLC), would easily sacrifice elections simply to keep an iron grip on power within the party and to discourage activists from attempting to stand up and demand their say, since they represent the primary threat to that power. Which means in terms of the present contest that they would do everything to discourage the loyalty and vigor of young voters and grass-roots insurgents and the surest way to accomplish that is to sabotage the Activist (Obama) candidate by every means necessary to put the nomination in the hands of the Party Hack (Hillary).

I think Kennedy's endorsement shows at least some cracks in the facade of the Old Guard.

Perhaps. But Ted's never really been DLC material, has he?

[Illuminatus Primus]

I wouldn't say the DLC is really the solidified Party Machine (TM); Clinton seems to be the outlier that characterizes the DLC's centrist stance, whereas Kerry was really a throwback to the old Northeast Liberalz (TM).