Vong? Who needs Vong when you can rip off franchises...

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Borg adapting to Physical Weapons[/url]

[Admiral Johnason]

Why don't the Borg just send a hue fleet of cubes to Earth and just overwhelm the Federation?

[neoolong]

Funny how in FC, Worf was able to kill one with a blade, and Picard did the same with a Tommy Gun.

Thanks, I didn't remember those. But how long did those examples last. From what I remember (and it's been a long time since I've seen FC), Picard killed a few in the holodeck before they could adapt. Ditto for Worf. Besides, it stretches the imagination to think that the Borg are incapable to adapt to projectile weapons. All it would take is a force field.

It wasn't simultaneous. Which means that the Borg, being a collective and all should have been aware of the problem enough to optimize shields to protect against the later. Unless, they can't. After all they are pretty small force field projectors. Might not have the physical equipment for that type. Or they are just really really dumb.

[xianseeker]

Thanks for the cool pic...i may use it as my avatar, but there a point other than the one made by neoolong?

[neoolong]

Why don't the Borg just send a hue fleet of cubes to Earth and just overwhelm the Federation?

Because that would be the logical thing to do.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Force Fields use energy. Impacts drain the Force Field, forcing more energy needed. Borg Cubes do not have infinite energy.



This is of course, ignoring the whole squishing vital organs and such.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Funny how in FC, Worf was able to kill one with a blade, and Picard did the same with a Tommy Gun.

Thanks, I didn't remember those. But how long did those examples last. From what I remember (and it's been a long time since I've seen FC), Picard killed a few in the holodeck before they could adapt. Ditto for Worf. Besides, it stretches the imagination to think that the Borg are incapable to adapt to projectile weapons. All it would take is a force field.

But if the Borg can **RESIST** projectile weapons using force field, it is not necessarily ADAPTATION. If the Borg can resist CERTAIN AMOUNT OF KE using force field, it doesn't automaticaly mean that the Borg can ADAPT to projectiles like they adapt to frequency-dependent weapons like phasers.

A Borg using force field to deflect projectiles (assuming they have such FF) will be in no different situation from ANYONE ELSE who use the same force field: sufficient amount of KE will **penetrate** the force field.

[Darth Servo]

But if the Borg can **RESIST** projectile weapons using force field

Key word: IF. Where is the evidence they can do this?

[xianseeker]

But if the Borg can **RESIST** projectile weapons using force field, it is not necessarily ADAPTATION. If the Borg can resist CERTAIN AMOUNT OF KE using force field, it doesn't automaticaly mean that the Borg can ADAPT to projectiles like they adapt to frequency-dependent weapons like phasers.

A Borg using force field to deflect projectiles (assuming they have such FF) will be in no different situation from ANYONE ELSE who use the same force field: sufficient amount of KE will **penetrate** the force field.

They wouldn't necessarily have to deflect projectiles. A FF with a gentle slope that would redirect the projectiles would be sufficient. Also, a well aimed high energy laser and small wedge FF could slice the projectile such that the two pieces would miss the cube.

Also, absent acceleration, it would take the same amount of energy to start the projectile moving as to stop it. I think I have the physics right on this....F=ma...no acceleration...no increase in force...I'm trying to picture this w/o drawing a free body diagram...I think this is correct. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Key word: IF. Where is the evidence they can do this?

The evidence that they can project force fields? I would think this would be a given. If not, tractor technology could do the same. Come to think of it, a tractor beam could be used to stop or reverse the vector of a projectile weapon.

Since no one commented on it, I'll assume that my comment about adaptation to plasma being simple is accepted.

I think that the best advantage the the vong would have against the borg would be the vongs ability to send smaller, fast moving ships against the borg. Since combat in Star Trek is more naval, we've never seen the borg against an attack like that. However, they have demonstrated the ability to defend and succeed against multiple enemies.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

But if the Borg can **RESIST** projectile weapons using force field, it is not necessarily ADAPTATION. If the Borg can resist CERTAIN AMOUNT OF KE using force field, it doesn't automaticaly mean that the Borg can ADAPT to projectiles like they adapt to frequency-dependent weapons like phasers.

A Borg using force field to deflect projectiles (assuming they have such FF) will be in no different situation from ANYONE ELSE who use the same force field: sufficient amount of KE will **penetrate** the force field.

They wouldn't necessarily have to deflect projectiles. A FF with a gentle slope that would redirect the projectiles would be sufficient. Also, a well aimed high energy laser and small wedge FF could slice the projectile such that the two pieces would miss the cube.

Also, absent acceleration, it would take the same amount of energy to start the projectile moving as to stop it. I think I have the physics right on this....F=ma...no acceleration...no increase in force...I'm trying to picture this w/o drawing a free body diagram...I think this is correct. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Key word: IF. Where is the evidence they can do this?

The evidence that they can project force fields? I would think this would be a given. If not, tractor technology could do the same. Come to think of it, a tractor beam could be used to stop or reverse the vector of a projectile weapon.

Since no one commented on it, I'll assume that my comment about adaptation to plasma being simple is accepted.

I think that the best advantage the the vong would have against the borg would be the vongs ability to send smaller, fast moving ships against the borg. Since combat in Star Trek is more naval, we've never seen the borg against an attack like that. However, they have demonstrated the ability to defend and succeed against multiple enemies.

You missed my entire points.
- the Borg adapted to the likes of phasers and distruptors because the nature of the weapon itself (frequency dependency)
- against RAW ENERGY WEAPONS (projectiles, plasma, etc) which is not frequency-dependent, it will be NOTHING SPECIAL about the Borg's defence. They have to fight energy with energy, and unlike their adaptation to phasers and distruptor, this kind of defence have **LIMIT**.

Since the Borg doesn't have UNLIMITED energy, they won't adapt to projectiles like they have adapted to phasers and disruptors.

Key word: IF. Where is the evidence they can do this?

I was just hypotheticaly speaking. My point is: **IF** we see any instance that the Borg resisting projectiles, it is NOT necessarily adaptation.

Consider this: If I wear a bulletproof vest, then I can resist bullets. But does it mean that I can **adapt** to any projectiles like the Borg adapting to phasers? Of course not. Sufficient amount of energy will overwhelm my defence.

Same goes with the Borg. Against raw energy (projectiles, heat, etc), they'll no longer have the luxury of adaptation. They have to fight energy with energy, and unlike adapting to phasers, such defence have limit.

[Admiral Drason]

I dont think the Borg can adapt to bulits. They should have encountered more species with that same type of tech.

Plasma is not phase based. The Borg have never once shown that they can adapt to any thing but phasers and disrupters.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

The Vong are shooting rocks and plasma. How can they adapt to that?
Vong weapons arent phase based like trek weapons. The Borg cant adapt to that stuff.

I don't know that the borg ever faced something like a projectile weapon (rock), but adapting to it shouldn't be difficult. As soon as the weapon was shot, one or two would get through before the borg got finished analyzing it.

Uhuh... uhuh... so if I can ANALYZE nuclear warhead, then I could magically adapt to nukes, eh?

After that it would be a simple matter of a force shield against the vector of the rock.

So energy is non-factor? Then please explain how the force field can handle projectiles using vector alone.

Tank armor also optimizes its KE resistance capability using vector (by arranging its curvature). But sufficient amount of KE will still PENETRATE it.

And since plasma is simply highly ionized gas, a field that would cause the atoms and free electrons to become stable would stop plasma weapons.

Very clever, you point out how things work while completely refusing to discuss their ***CAPABILITY***. Of course a field that can stabilize atoms and free electrons MAY STOP CERTAIN AMOUNT of plasma. The problem is how many amount of plasma it will stop. How many atoms and free electrons it capable to stabilize before it is overwhelmed by the amount of atoms and electrons.


Yet your points are pointless in the discussion about Borg adaptation capability. The Borg NEVER exhibit any adaptation against plasma and bullets.

Since no one commented on it, I'll assume that my comment about adaptation to plasma being simple is accepted.

Oh, please.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Sorry typo it should be quote=Darth Servo

Key word: IF. Where is the evidence they can do this?

I was just hypotheticaly speaking. My point is: **IF** we see any instance that the Borg resisting projectiles, it is NOT necessarily adaptation.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

But if the Borg can **RESIST** projectile weapons using force field, it is not necessarily ADAPTATION. If the Borg can resist CERTAIN AMOUNT OF KE using force field, it doesn't automaticaly mean that the Borg can ADAPT to projectiles like they adapt to frequency-dependent weapons like phasers.

A Borg using force field to deflect projectiles (assuming they have such FF) will be in no different situation from ANYONE ELSE who use the same force field: sufficient amount of KE will **penetrate** the force field.

They wouldn't necessarily have to deflect projectiles. A FF with a gentle slope that would redirect the projectiles would be sufficient.

A FF with gentle slope would NOT be sufficient if it doesn't have the required amount of energy to STOP the projectiles.

Also, a well aimed high energy laser and small wedge FF could slice the projectile such that the two pieces would miss the cube.

So a sliced projectiles will magically CHANGE DIRECTION sufficiently to miss the cube? OMFG.....

Also, absent acceleration, it would take the same amount of energy to start the projectile moving as to stop it. I think I have the physics right on this....F=ma...no acceleration...no increase in force...I'm trying to picture this w/o drawing a free body diagram...I think this is correct. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

You can get bigger KE by using bigger guns. Even IF (note the word IF) the Borg have forcefield that can resist assault rifle bullets, you cannot guarantee that the said forcefield can resist howitzer shells.

I think that the best advantage the the vong would have against the borg would be the vongs ability to send smaller, fast moving ships against the borg. Since combat in Star Trek is more naval, we've never seen the borg against an attack like that. However, they have demonstrated the ability to defend and succeed against multiple enemies.

Methods is less relevant than energy. Be it small ships, large ships, as long as you can deliver sufficient amount of energy, the Borg will be TOASTED.

Vong has SW-level firepower. I'd like to see how the Borg adapt to *that*.

[Slartibartfast]

I never understood why turning on a force field is adapting.

1 of 3: "Let's invade their ship with our forcefields disengaged, yeah."
3 of 3: "Me first."

3 of 3 gets shot.

1 of 3: "What to do, what to do..."

1 of 3 gets shot.

2 of 3: "Look, they are firing at us, let's turn on our forcefields."

2 of 3 flips a switch. Phaser bounces at 2's forcefield.

Security Officer: "Oh no, they've adapted! We'll have to wait until they forget again and turn it off... er I mean, until we find a way to remodulate our frequencies."

[Pcm979]

I never understood why turning on a force field is adapting.

1 of 3: "Let's invade their ship with our forcefields disengaged, yeah."
3 of 3: "Me first."

3 of 3 gets shot.

1 of 3: "What to do, what to do..."

1 of 3 gets shot.

2 of 3: "Look, they are firing at us, let's turn on our forcefields."

2 of 3 flips a switch. Phaser bounces at 2's forcefield.

Security Officer: "Oh no, they've adapted! We'll have to wait until they forget again and turn it off... er I mean, until we find a way to remodulate our frequencies."

That's the best explanation yet!

[jegs2]

I dont think the Borg can adapt to bulits. They should have encountered more species with that same type of tech.

Plasma is not phase based. The Borg have never once shown that they can adapt to any thing but phasers and disrupters.

Reminds me of the movie, Hunt for Red October, in which Ramius says, "Be careful ... some things in there don't react well to bullets."

[Darth Yoshi]

Speaking of plasma, shouldn't the queen have adapted to the plasma in the engineering section? After all, several drones were caught in the flood.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I guess Drones can take 16" shells and 10 ton .1c railgun shots right?