V-GER vs. the Death Star

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-19 10:41am

Eaglewood wrote:But what about these funny looking lizard aliens... I think Vadaur or Veedwaur or something like that in Voyager? They were in stasis for 1,000 years under their ruined city and when Voyager crew told them about the Borg, the Veedwaur said that the Borg were weak, only a few planets / systems during their era.

How reliable is their source of information?

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-02-20 12:58am

Yeah, they could have had a really mighty empire so the borg to them seemed like a weak non-threat. Imagine, you take a roman from around the time of the birth of christianity and put them in stasis then in 1000 years and see what they have to say when you tell them how big christianity has become.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-02-20 12:59am

BTW i know that puts them in the early 1000's but christianity was a major religion at that point and to say now would be 2000 years which would be un un-fair comparision.

Eaglewood · Post by **Eaglewood** » 2003-02-20 01:27am

darthdavid wrote:BTW i know that puts them in the early 1000's but christianity was a major religion at that point and to say now would be 2000 years which would be un un-fair comparision.

All right. Lets take a hard look at Star Wars tech and Star Trek tech.

I'm not a numbers guy, so I'll just go with the abilities of each universe.

1. Civilian ships in Star Wars has Hyperdrive, which is probably a little faster than Slipstream. The Federation barely is able to enter a SlipStream, and isn't able to maintain a stable Slipstream like they do with Warp Drive.

2. Star Wars has millions of planets, millions of civilizations, etc. Star Trek has perhaps 200 species that we've seen and heard about, not counting the 9000 or 10,000 species the Borg may have assilimated. That gives the Milky Way at least 12,000 species max. That is still a far cry from Star Wars.

3. The Old Republic has been around for over 1,000 years. I'm confused if it's 1,000 or 25,000 years. I remember the 25,000 year from a book but forgot its name. I think it was probably one of the books of the Thrawn trilogy.

Even if it's only 1,000 years, there's still the Sith history and all that. That means the Star Wars galaxy had hyperdrive and turbolaser or weaker versions of it for quite a few millennia.

You'd think over all the millennia, they'd come up with drastically improved tech, or god-like tech, using our history as comparison. 5,800 years of slow tech growth in history, then the last 200 a fast growth in tech.

Just throwing around ideas. I'm open to ideas or debates.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-20 12:50pm

Eaglewood wrote:3. The Old Republic has been around for over 1,000 years. I'm confused if it's 1,000 or 25,000 years. I remember the 25,000 year from a book but forgot its name. I think it was probably one of the books of the Thrawn trilogy.

As far as canon goes, Palpatine mentions a 1000 year figure in AOTC, but Obi-wan mentions 1000 generations in ANH. Since a generation is approximately 25 years, the 25K year figure does match with canon. Palpatine may have been referring to one particular form of the the republic government. And even at the beginning of the Old republic 25K years before the movies, the SW civilization was still acnient even then.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-02-20 02:35pm

If V'ger could digitize entire galaxies, why did it need to travel to earth. Couldn't it simply have digitized the milkyway, which would have achieved its goal of "joining" with the creator.

On the next level: Digitizing planets. Couldn't it also have just digitized the earth for similar reasons?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-20 02:59pm

Zoink wrote:If V'ger could digitize entire galaxies, why did it need to travel to earth. Couldn't it simply have digitized the milkyway, which would have achieved its goal of "joining" with the creator.

On the next level: Digitizing planets. Couldn't it also have just digitized the earth for similar reasons?

"Digitizing" is a total pile of BS anyway.....

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-20 05:58pm

So it sucks up planets through a modem or data port using plasma. Looks like someone at Paramount didn't finish 6th grade science.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-21 05:28am

Admiral Johnason wrote:So it sucks up planets through a modem or data port using plasma.

Replace plasma and it rings of AOL....

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-02-21 07:26am

Admiral Johnason wrote:So it sucks up planets through a modem or data port using plasma. Looks like someone at Paramount didn't finish 6th grade science.

feed it janeway porn then. It'll go away quick enough if it doesn't implode

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-02-21 03:26pm

I'm pretty Trek-ignorant. Could someone tell me what the heck V-Ger is?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-21 03:29pm

Badme wrote:I'm pretty Trek-ignorant. Could someone tell me what the heck V-Ger is?

The mysterious cloud/unstopable ship that was threatening to destroy Earth in the first Trek movie.

Ah, a noobie.

*NUCLEAR FUSION DEATH POKE*

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-21 03:30pm

Badme wrote:I'm pretty Trek-ignorant. Could someone tell me what the heck V-Ger is?

Big unknown unstoppable alien ship that shows up at Earth in Star Trek the Motion Picture.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-21 05:13pm

I believe that at the end of the movie, it unveiled its Doomsday weapon: a lot of glowing energy balls that would circulate around the planet and sterilize its surface (I think it would have taken about an hour, but it's been many years since I saw the film).

Mind you, since a single ISD can do the same thing, this is not exactly the sort of thing which will terrify the Death Star.

Eaglewood · Post by **Eaglewood** » 2003-02-21 06:55pm

Hmmm...

I don't get it. Why is Janeway porn terrible? I don't watch Voyager that much. I'm curious why Janeway is depised so badly, and also why porn of her can make Imperials wither up and die, as you guys seem to implicate.

I think a better debate would be........

V'Ger vs 1 or 2 ISD's.

How about that?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-22 09:50pm

Eaglewood wrote:Hmmm...

I don't get it. Why is Janeway porn terrible?

If you're gay, you should have just said so right away, so as to avoid confusion.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-02-22 10:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:I believe that at the end of the movie, it unveiled its Doomsday weapon: a lot of glowing energy balls that would circulate around the planet and sterilize its surface (I think it would have taken about an hour, but it's been many years since I saw the film).

Mind you, since a single ISD can do the same thing, this is not exactly the sort of thing which will terrify the Death Star.

Its been a long time since i seen the movie but if i remember correctly V-Ger want to fuse with its creator to evolve at the next level.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-02-24 07:37am

Darth Wong wrote:I believe that at the end of the movie, it unveiled its Doomsday weapon: a lot of glowing energy balls that would circulate around the planet and sterilize its surface (I think it would have taken about an hour, but it's been many years since I saw the film).

I don't recall this. The balls divided and were to strike Earth's surface in a single volley. The actual destruction would have been very short, it took only time to deploy them.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-02-24 09:51am

The Nomad wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I believe that at the end of the movie, it unveiled its Doomsday weapon: a lot of glowing energy balls that would circulate around the planet and sterilize its surface (I think it would have taken about an hour, but it's been many years since I saw the film).
I don't recall this. The balls divided and were to strike Earth's surface in a single volley. The actual destruction would have been very short, it took only time to deploy them.

What a dumbo. Ignore this.

What I meant is that I believed that I recalled that V'Ger cancelled or slowed down its attack when Kirk promised it to contact the creator.

I'll have to *sigh* watch TMP to confirm this with 100% certitude

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-24 11:23am

The Nomad wrote:I don't recall this. The balls divided and were to strike Earth's surface in a single volley. The actual destruction would have been very short, it took only time to deploy them.

Why would the time be so short? When V-ger digitized the Klingon ships and the Fed Space station, it tood several seconds and thats just a few hundred meters. How much longer would this effect take to cover the surface of the earth?

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-02-24 01:20pm

Darth Servo wrote:
The Nomad wrote:I don't recall this. The balls divided and were to strike Earth's surface in a single volley. The actual destruction would have been very short, it took only time to deploy them.
Why would the time be so short? When V-ger digitized the Klingon ships and the Fed Space station, it tood several seconds and thats just a few hundred meters. How much longer would this effect take to cover the surface of the earth?

It's not the "digitization" effect ( blue balls with lightnings surrounding ), but a "big blast kaboom" effect ( yellow fireballs ). Quite not the same thing.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-24 02:01pm

The Nomad wrote:It's not the "digitization" effect ( blue balls with lightnings surrounding ), but a "big blast kaboom" effect ( yellow fireballs ). Quite not the same thing.

IIRC, the only difference between the balls shot at the ships and the balls shot around the earth was one of magnitude and size, not color. I'd retract this statement if someone will post a screen shot. Until then, since the attack on earth never actually occured, you have no evidence that the effect would be any different.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2003-02-24 02:21pm

Darth Servo wrote:IIRC, the only difference between the balls shot at the ships and the balls shot around the earth was one of magnitude and size, not color. I'd retract this statement if someone will post a screen shot. Until then, since the attack on earth never actually occured, you have no evidence that the effect would be any different.

Vertigo1 already did :

Tactical view of V'Ger orbiting Earth

White plasma ball (ship digitizer)

Uber plasma ball launch

Uber plasma ball #2

Difference of color. We can IMHO safely assume that the effect would be different.

But evenso that doesn't change the fact that the probability of a V'Ger victory is [understatement]extremely low[/understatement]. Stop beating the horse, it's already dead.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-24 02:52pm

The Nomad wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:IIRC, the only difference between the balls shot at the ships and the balls shot around the earth was one of magnitude and size, not color. I'd retract this statement if someone will post a screen shot. Until then, since the attack on earth never actually occured, you have no evidence that the effect would be any different.
Vertigo1 already did :

OK. I retract the first sentence of my last post.

Difference of color. We can IMHO safely assume that the effect would be different.

Leap in logic. Different beam weapons on different ships have different colors but the same effect.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-24 05:56pm

Darth Servo wrote:
The Nomad wrote:I don't recall this. The balls divided and were to strike Earth's surface in a single volley. The actual destruction would have been very short, it took only time to deploy them.
Why would the time be so short? When V-ger digitized the Klingon ships and the Fed Space station, it tood several seconds and thats just a few hundred meters. How much longer would this effect take to cover the surface of the earth?

Good point. Let's say it takes 10 seconds to "digitize" a GCS. That would be a rate of around 650,000 cubic metres per second (assuming a GCS volume is 6.5E6 m^3). Now, let's extrapolate that to digitizing the Earth's 510 million square km surface area to a depth of 10 metres (thus ignoring surface structures taller than 10 metres or anything buried deeper than 10 metres). At that rate, it would take roughly ... two hundred and fifty years.

So, even if it fires off a hundred of these things and each one is a thousand times more powerful than the one which struck the Klingon ship, we're still looking at a timeframe of more than 20 hours.

I think this thing would have a helluva time dealing with an ISD, never mind the Death Star.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

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