The High Cost of Poverty

[Ziggy Stardust]

No, my point was mainly that the examples that the article uses to indicate the plight of the poor are poorly selected with the exception of the last example. Each of the previous ones are remarkably easy to poke holes in and simply brush them aside as stupid people being stupid and doing stupid things to keep them poor. The last example is much better in showing the reality of the working poor while the previous ones simply indicate that people make stupid decisions and should know better without indicating that they in fact DO NOT know any better due to poor education, etc. Instead they quote a guy saying basically, "Yeah, I know they're fucking me, but who cares! stupid/lazy!".

I like how you don't even attempt to prove any of your claims, despite numerous attempts in this thread challenging you to do so. How is being unable to afford food an example of "stupid people being stupid and doing stupid things to keep them poor"? Are you honestly that out of touch with reality you dumb fuck? Do you really not understand that there are people who have to work long days and still don't make that much money?

[KrauserKrauser]

Go fuck yourself Ziggy. As many have stated, many of the examples given are not examples of the problems of poverty but stupid shit that stupid people do and when poor people do them its even worse because it only increases the likelihood that they will remain poor. In some respects it may be the reason they remain poor as they lack the intelligence or education necessary to first recognize their situation and then makes the necessary changes to change their situation. Be that due to poor education from a vastly fucked up public education system or simply human ignorance, the majority of the listed examples in the OP are not chronic symptons of being poor and for the most part are shitty examples of what people have to go through when poor.

Instead of showing people that are doing stupid things while poor to prove that being poor sucks, why not focus on teh example found in the last section of the article where if the account is to believed at face value, the person is attempting to better her situation but the system is not built correctly to help her to advance to the next step. That is a better leg to stand on when proposing that something needs to done than simply listing the action of a bunch of idiots and their idiotic justifications for their own actions.

Not to mention that the article does not delve in any depths as to the actual reasons for them being poor, or having bad credit, or not being able to make enough, or not being educated enough to get a fucking clue and not utilize the intensely convenient but ultimately too pricey corner store or check cashing place.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Go fuck yourself Ziggy. As many have stated, many of the examples given are not examples of the problems of poverty but stupid shit that stupid people do and when poor people do them its even worse because it only increases the likelihood that they will remain poor. In some respects it may be the reason they remain poor as they lack the intelligence or education necessary to first recognize their situation and then makes the necessary changes to change their situation. Be that due to poor education from a vastly fucked up public education system or simply human ignorance, the majority of the listed examples in the OP are not chronic symptons of being poor and for the most part are shitty examples of what people have to go through when poor.

Instead of showing people that are doing stupid things while poor to prove that being poor sucks, why not focus on teh example found in the last section of the article where if the account is to believed at face value, the person is attempting to better her situation but the system is not built correctly to help her to advance to the next step. That is a better leg to stand on when proposing that something needs to done than simply listing the action of a bunch of idiots and their idiotic justifications for their own actions.

Not to mention that the article does not delve in any depths as to the actual reasons for them being poor, or having bad credit, or not being able to make enough, or not being educated enough to get a fucking clue and not utilize the intensely convenient but ultimately too pricey corner store or check cashing place.

Once again, you completely ignore the point and continue spouting the same "It is their fault they are poor!" bullshit. I asked you to provide evidence for how the examples in the article, such as being unable to afford food, are examples of "stupid shit that stupid people do." Then prove how they are not chronic symptoms of being poor. Are you really this fucking out of touch with reality? You have NEVER been in a dire financial situation, have you? All you are doing is spouting the same crap without backing it up, and ignoring several request by people in this thread to do so, you dishonest little shit.

[Darth Wong]

Well, to be fair, it is partially their fault. They got dealt a shitty hand, but quite frankly, you're not going to tell me that it's not their own fault at all. My father got off the boat in the 1960s with nothing, worked his ass off to get a good education, and became successful. Not fabulously wealthy, but successful. When these people say that they couldn't succeed without a lot more help, they're lying. They could have, but didn't, because they didn't work hard enough when they were young and by the time they were mature enough to realize their mistake, they already had kids and the obstacles were now nigh-insurmountable.

Yes, others had it easier. Some people can even become President despite being useless drunkards for the first 40 years of their lives. But that doesn't mean these people were actually barred from success in such a manner that they could not overcome the circumstances of their birth.

Having said that, lecturing the poor will not solve this problem. Ironically, assigning blame on the poor for their bad judgment is a tactic which exactly matches Krauser's criticism of the article in the OP: it does not offer a solution. We need to make it easier for these people to move up, and we need to work harder on promoting the value of education to the children of the poor, to break the cycle.

And frankly, we need to stop promoting sports to poor kids. That's fucking retarded, and will not help the vast majority of these kids get out of the ghetto. I'm suck of hearing people talk about "inner-city youth sports" as some sort of solution. Sure, it may distract them from killing each other, but it won't actually help them achieve real change. Obama is a good role model for inner-city black kids; a pro basketball player is not.

[Themightytom]

I wonder how much studying you'd get done in a laundromat. Hint: they are loud and busy. That's hardly conductive to proper learning - especially since you're interrupted every half hour to change the load.

I'm baffled at the concept of needing a driver's license of all things to open an account. I can understand perfectly that the banks need to have some form of ID and that a license is the closest they'll get, but tying the ability operate a motor vehicle to virtually essential services seems asinine. What do the disabled do? Do they just issue driver's licenses to the blind so they can operate in society or are they SOL?

No they issue non driver's ID, I typically get the them for $10 instead of $50 but whats REALLY a pain in the ass is getting the birth certificate as a prerequisite, and the social security card, well you avhe to have an ID to get that??

Some states require an ID to get a birth certificate, which is an automatic catch 22, Connecticut gave us the option of either sending the client down there in person or talking a state employee into ordering one, and some other states have REALLY protracted processing times. Oregon cashed the check we sent and didn't actually mail the BC for three weeks. Massachusetts... if you even TRY to get anything done with them you're on hold for eighty minutes, which emans someone with a pay as you go phone just screwed themselves.

Then the most awesome part is that the nearest DMV is three miles from the nearest bus stop.

Also if you are an immigrant you have to go to the state capitol.

And frankly, we need to stop promoting sports to poor kids. That's fucking retarded, and will not help the vast majority of these kids get out of the ghetto. I'm suck of hearing people talk about "inner-city youth sports" as some sort of solution. Sure, it may distract them from killing each other, but it won't actually help them achieve real change. Obama is a good role model for inner-city black kids; a pro basketball player is not.

There is a vast gulf between the statement "Obama is a good role model for inner-city black kids; a pro basketball player is not." and "I'm suck of hearing people talk about "inner-city youth sports" as some sort of solution. Sure, it may distract them from killing each other, but it won't actually help them achieve real change. "

I agree for the msot part with the first, given that basketball players appear to be using inner city kids as their role models rather than the opposite. They figured out somewhere along the line that if they promote an urban atitude they get a bigger fan base derived from "Street cred".

On the other hand athletics aren't easy. Theres a lot of hard work involved in being good at anything, and I respect people who can legitimately put the time and effort into accomplishing amazing things. professional sports in general need massive rehabilitation however, even the olympics is a mess at this point.

The second part is absurd.

kids need exercise, ESPECIALLY Inner city kids, ESPECIALLY minorities. They are, ironically over-representated in poverty statistics meaning minorities make up a large percentage of those living beneath the poverty line (not african americans in my neighborhood, but hispanics). As described in the original post, youth living in poverty have a higher risk of obesity because of limited access to nutritious food, and a general lack of education among their parents about what is good to eat. Its an ongoing issue, as parents who were raised eating junk food pass that on to their kids.

http://www.1888pressrelease.com/generat ... 5g1d8.html

Inner city sports programs foster interactions that promote resilience. the chance to participate with others in activities, socialization, goal setting and personal accomplishment. Given that the media directed at kid is oversaturated with an emphasis on sports, inner city sports programs are a logical hook to get kids to participate in a moderated setting. putting them in a supervised protected setting is never bad in a poor urban setting, otherwise kids are exposed to criminal activity gang recruitment etc and are put in a situation where they noramlize conditions like poverty substance abuse and metnal illness.

In the suburbs gym class is for exercise and sports are for fun, in an urban situation they are a good reason to draw kids into a developemental framework, and keeping them off the streets. The one that i work at fosters positive interaction with police officers (Who are coaches and assistant coaches) so that kids learn respect for the law and to apprciate people who enforce it. Run effectiely sports can promote a sense of respect and self discipline which is transferrable later in life in terms of understanding business hierarchies, having the self confidence to do things like speak up and participate in class and reach for difficult goals.

Incidently its helpful to the parents to have a form of low cost childcare taht promotes healthy developement physically and mentally.

[KrauserKrauser]

Once again, you completely ignore the point and continue spouting the same "It is their fault they are poor!" bullshit. I asked you to provide evidence for how the examples in the article, such as being unable to afford food, are examples of "stupid shit that stupid people do." Then prove how they are not chronic symptoms of being poor. Are you really this fucking out of touch with reality? You have NEVER been in a dire financial situation, have you? All you are doing is spouting the same crap without backing it up, and ignoring several request by people in this thread to do so, you dishonest little shit.

I've already addressed the not being able to afford food with my proposals on increased offering of food stamps combined with subsidization of the "corner store" that the OP references to address the food concerns.

The laundry, same day check cashing and the whining about the buses not running on time are a few examples of how the article is not doing itself any favors when it is trying to show how the poor have it bad.

The buses are late and the poor are the predominate users of the buses, but is there any analysis of why the buses are late? Must be those greedy capatilist pigs or space aliens. No mention of a need for better city planning or proposals for change, simply anecdote after anecdote without any critical analysis.

The article is shit.

[General Zod]

The buses are late and the poor are the predominate users of the buses, but is there any analysis of why the buses are late? Must be those greedy capatilist pigs or space aliens. No mention of a need for better city planning or proposals for change, simply anecdote after anecdote without any critical analysis.

City planning is not going to eliminate the need for funding to properly run a bus fleet capable of servicing most parts of a city. If the predominant mindset is that buses aren't going to bring in a profit because only poor people use them, as opposed to an essential service that will help with a lot of issues, then the chances of them getting the proper funding is going to be slim.

[MKSheppard]

I hate to say it, but just about all the anecedotes in this story are of really fucking stupid morons.

Best example is:

On a hot spring afternoon, Jacob Carter finds himself standing in a checkout line at the Giant on Alabama Avenue SE. Before the cashier finishes ringing up his items, he puts $43 on the conveyor belt. But his bill comes to $52.07. He has no more money, so he tells the clerk to start removing items.

The clerk suggests that he use his "bonus card" for savings.

Carter tells the clerk he has no such card.

He puts back the liter of soda. Puts back the paper towels. Sets aside $9 worth of hot fried chicken wings. He returns $13 worth of groceries. "Y'all got some high prices in this [expletive]," he says, standing in Aisle 4, blue shirt over work clothes.

The clerk suggests that he take his cash off the conveyor belt, because if she moves the belt the money will be carried into the machinery. Then the money will be gone.

Carter, a building engineer, snatches up the money, then gives it to the clerk. His final bill is $39.07.

He looks at the receipt and then announces without the slightest indication as to why: "Just give me all my [expletive] money back. It's too high in this [expletive]." The clerk calls the supervisor, who comes over. The supervisor doesn't argue with Carter. She just starts the process of giving him a refund.

"I want my money back. This [expletive] is too high. My grandmother told me about this store."

The supervisor returns $39.07 in cash. "Sir," she says, "have a blessed day."

Let's zero in on the money quote:

Sets aside $9 worth of hot fried chicken wings. He returns $13 worth of groceries.

"I'm on a very limited budget, and what do I do? I buy processed food! Hot Wings, the daily essential part of the FDA's food pyramid!"

You get a lot more for your money's worth if you go to semi-fresh food; like going to the deli section and having them slice ham and swiss cheese for you; you can get a lot more ham/cheese than you would if you bought them in pre-processed packages.

Then going to the other sections, and getting Mayonnaise and Pickles, and topping it off with rolls.

It's five minutes' worth of work to get a pretty decent lunch meal out of those ingredients.

Disclosure Yes, I do from time to time buy pre-made subs from Shoppers', and from time to time go to Quiznos'; but my main lunch fare 95% of the time is of the abovementioned self-made sub.

Jesus; the clerks don't get paid enough to put up with loudmouthed morons like the abovementioned building "engineer".

[MKSheppard]

Things are more expensive when they are located within a city? SHOCKING!

You know, I think the simple way to solve the problem of corner grocery stores being so horrible; would be to reform liquor sales regulations in urban areas -- driving from Montgomery county into DC is like "Wow, what the hell?" when you see a liquor store on just about every other street corner. Imagine...if they were grocery stores, not booze stores...

[KrauserKrauser]

You've got it all wrong Shep any critical analysis of this piece of shit article of course makes it obvious that you hate poor people and want them to all starve to death. How dare you actually read some of the retarded stories and realize that the people they chose to show in this article are both poor and stupid and while one may not lead to the other it has in their cases.

Nope, any negative reactions to this story means you hate poor people. Ziggy taught me well.

[CarsonPalmer]

The buses are late and the poor are the predominate users of the buses, but is there any analysis of why the buses are late? Must be those greedy capatilist pigs or space aliens. No mention of a need for better city planning or proposals for change, simply anecdote after anecdote without any critical analysis.

The article is shit.

Come on, you knucklehead. People need to read articles saying that being poor in America sucks, because folks don't always accept that. It doesn't need to analyze why the buses are late, because its trying to get some sympathy for the working poor, something that is astonishingly rare.

[ArmorPierce]

Not owning your own washer/dryer. Well, shit, I guess conveniences are expensive huh? Can they afford half of a washer and dryer? Maybe have some friends in the neighborhood that want to get together for one? Nope? Well at least it isn't washing clothes in the river with rocks and a bar of soap. Hopefully you realize that the 2 hours waiting can actually be spent constructively and are reading a book to give you some marketable skills, that's what you're doing right? Watching soap operas instead? Idiot.

Because getting together with a bunch of people to buy something is so easy?

Reading a book and actually learning skills in a noisy and bustling laundromat with no where you can sit down and put the book in front of you so that you can actually understand the concept can be nearly impossible. Besides, what employer will care that you read a book?

[KrauserKrauser]

Come on, you knucklehead. People need to read articles saying that being poor in America sucks, because folks don't always accept that. It doesn't need to analyze why the buses are late, because its trying to get some sympathy for the working poor, something that is astonishingly rare.

Yeah, agreed, but the article would be better served highlighting situation like the last stated example and not providing a litany of poor people acting retarded as Shep brought up to prove their point.

I have a hell of alot more empathy for the last woman how just couldn't make it to that next step than for the guys that were too lazy to get an ID to avoid the check cashing fees and the guy that wouldn't take the 5 minutes to get a free discount card to lower the cost of the [expletive] groceries.

[KrauserKrauser]

Because getting together with a bunch of people to buy something is so easy?

Well it's either that or go to the laundromat unless you want to simply hand out conveniencies to the poor. Necesseties I can get behind, washers and dryers for everyone is a much weaker limb to stand on.

Don't forget there exist the opportunity to pool money among the family or to use the facilities of parents/grandparents. More options are open than simply laundromat or nothing.

Reading a book and actually learning skills in a noisy and bustling laundromat with no where you can sit down and put the book in front of you so that you can actually understand the concept can be nearly impossible. Besides, what employer will care that you read a book?

Your current employer? From company sponsored learning/college tuition to simply showing a desire for improving your own situation. Telling your supervisor what books you have read and asking them what they suggest can go a long way in advancing in a job.

Go to a different laundromat if that one is too busy or simply get books on tape from the library. Hell books on tape to learn a new language would be great especially if you are an immigrant with poor english speaking skills.

[Cairber]

I was a cashier for a long time and even now when I shop I can't help but check out what the person in front of me is buying; it never ceases to amaze me that people who are clearly living in or close to poverty (WIC customers, for example) will buy foods that are so expensive with little nutritional value and that have easy, cheap alternatives.

I know we had a long thread on this a while back, so I won't belabor the point, but I agree with the criticism of that part of the article.

In addition, where I live, the mass transit/buses are more likely to take you to the cheapo grocery stores (shop rite, walmart, etc) than they are the up scale ones like Geunardis.

[General Zod]

Your current employer? From company sponsored learning/college tuition to simply showing a desire for improving your own situation. Telling your supervisor what books you have read and asking them what they suggest can go a long way in advancing in a job.

Your problem is you think most employers will care that much.

Go to a different laundromat if that one is too busy or simply get books on tape from the library. Hell books on tape to learn a new language would be great especially if you are an immigrant with poor english speaking skills.

Who's talking about immigrants? Learning a language is one of the most time-consuming tasks someone can take on, and extremely difficult to retain without the opportunity to practice it frequently.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Because getting together with a bunch of people to buy something is so easy?

Well it's either that or go to the laundromat unless you want to simply hand out conveniencies to the poor. Necesseties I can get behind, washers and dryers for everyone is a much weaker limb to stand on.

Actually, having a washer/dryer would, like many other 'conveniences', save the average poor person a lot of money. Consider that the typical front-loading washer will have a price-per-load of between $0.07 and $0.34,depending on load size, and how hot the water is. Compare this to the $1.25 to $2.00 per load at a laundromat. This doesn't factor in the cost of detergent (considerable if someone only buys it at the laundromat,) and the cost of transporting the laundry to and from the laundromat. Speaking of having washers and dryers is well-and-good . . . if someone can afford to live in an apartment swanky enough and large enough for a W/D hookup.

Don't forget there exist the opportunity to pool money among the family or to use the facilities of parents/grandparents. More options are open than simply laundromat or nothing.

This assumes that,
A) The poor person's friends and family have any money left over from surviving to pool.
B) Anyone in the poor person's social circle has an apartment with a W/D hookup.
C) Their immediate relatives aren't similarly poor.

Reading a book and actually learning skills in a noisy and bustling laundromat with no where you can sit down and put the book in front of you so that you can actually understand the concept can be nearly impossible. Besides, what employer will care that you read a book?

Your current employer? From company sponsored learning/college tuition to simply showing a desire for improving your own situation. Telling your supervisor what books you have read and asking them what they suggest can go a long way in advancing in a job.

This assumes that the poor person in question has a job somewhere where the employer gives a shit about the welfare of the employees. All too often, someone with no marketable skills works in a place where low-level slaves of capitalism employees are typically considered expendable assets, not to be refurbished or upgraded.

Go to a different laundromat if that one is too busy or simply get books on tape from the library. Hell books on tape to learn a new language would be great especially if you are an immigrant with poor english speaking skills.

The above statement was clearly made by a person with no grasp of the reality of a person living near or below the poverty line. The time a person has to go to the laundromat is dictated by their work schedule, the bus schedule, distance from their residence, and the hours of the given laundromat. Going to a different laundromat is easy if one has lots of free time, and the money to waste on driving to a different laundromat (assuming one has a vehicle.) And, since many low-paying jobs are the sort where you must clock in and clock out at clearly defined times, a given poor person's free time will tend to fall in the same narrow window of time as that of a lot of other people.

Which, of course, leads to the question of when does a person like that have the time to go to the library to get books on tape? If they're spending time on the bus to the library, and spending time at the library, then they're not spending it something else. A poor person does not have the leisure time that someone who is better off does.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I don't see why anyone thinks these businesses are "preying" on the poor. Obviously, there's a demand for their business; if poor people didn't value those businesses, they wouldn't patronize them, so clearly poor people are better-off with those businesses than without them. It's just simple market economics at work - when DC imposed a cap on interest rates, a bunch of payday loan stores went out of business, and I'll bet there were lines at the ones that didn't. Passing that law must have decreased the welfare of poor people in DC.

Simply because a single person, or a community of class patronizes an establishment or purchases a product and consents to that transaction does not mean making it difficult or impossible for them to continue to do so reduces their welfare. Your reasoning could be applied in principle that if one could deny cigarettes to addicts through magic fiat, they'd still be worse off because they wanted them.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Sorry, but I'm with the heartless conservatives on the cheque-cashing stupidity:

You ask him why he didn't just go to a bank. But his story is as complicated as the various reasons people find themselves in poverty and in need of a check-cashing joint. He says he lost his driver's license and now his regular bank "won't recognize me as a human. That's why I had to come here. It's a rip-off, but it's like a convenience store. You pay for the convenience."

Since when do you need a driver's license to have a bank account? .

I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the U.S. you've needed a Social Security card and some form of photo ID (drivers licence being the most common) since the Patriot Act was signed. At least that was what I was told when I opened my account in 2004.

Getting a replacement licence or photo ID card can be a real hassle too, for example, the local DMV office in my area is only open one day a week, thursdays, till four PM. The next closest one is twenty-five miles away and is only open on thursdays and saturdays, and I'm not sure, but I think they're only open till one PM on saturdays.

[Aaron]

I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the U.S. you've needed a Social Security card and some form of photo ID (drivers licence being the most common) since the Patriot Act was signed. At least that was what I was told when I opened my account in 2004.

IIRC (it's been years since I did it) all you need is a piece of ID (license, health card, birth certificate) and a bill or two in your name. My wife has never had a DL but has opened accounts before without hassle. In my direct experience most Canadians have a copy of their birth certificate in their possession and if not it's a fairly simple matter to write to the provincial health ministry and request a copy. It costs 10$ I believe.

[LadyTevar]

Because getting together with a bunch of people to buy something is so easy?

Well it's either that or go to the laundromat unless you want to simply hand out conveniencies to the poor. Necesseties I can get behind, washers and dryers for everyone is a much weaker limb to stand on.

Don't forget there exist the opportunity to pool money among the family or to use the facilities of parents/grandparents. More options are open than simply laundromat or nothing.

Reading a book and actually learning skills in a noisy and bustling laundromat with no where you can sit down and put the book in front of you so that you can actually understand the concept can be nearly impossible. Besides, what employer will care that you read a book?

Your current employer? From company sponsored learning/college tuition to simply showing a desire for improving your own situation. Telling your supervisor what books you have read and asking them what they suggest can go a long way in advancing in a job.

Go to a different laundromat if that one is too busy or simply get books on tape from the library. Hell books on tape to learn a new language would be great especially if you are an immigrant with poor english speaking skills.

First off, Krauser, the TV in the laundrymat is controlled by the laundrymat's employees, not by the customers. In fact, most of the 'mats I've been in the TV is deliberately placed too high for the customer to change channels. So drop the shit here.

Second: Have you ever even USED a Laundrymat? I'm not talking the shared one in college, I'm talking hauled your 3-4 bags for blocks as you walk to the laundrymat, because you don't have a car and you don't live on the bus-line. Unless you've actually done this shit once in your life, your opinion is worth nothing. You're internet grandstanding, and that's it.

Now, I've lived three blocks from a laundrymat. Every two weeks, I'd walk over there, dragging bags of dirty clothes with me, and wait the 2-3 hours it took to get the damn things clean and dry. The washers were $2/load, and you were very lucky if the damn thing didn't catch your best blouse on a snag and rip a hole in it. The dryers were .25/10minutes. That meant the jeans that you wanted to get totally dry took 60 minutes. Add it up, jackass. On top of that, most of the dryers had broken heat settings so there was the good chance you'd scorch your delicates. I've taken my whites out of a dryer before with them SMOKING and smelling like burning cloth. I'd spend $30-50 dollars ever two weeks doing my laundry, and yet the owners couldn't even keep the machines running properly, much less have a clean toilet in the building.

Then it shut down. By that time I had a car, but it was still a two mile trip across the river to the nearest laundrymat. Same problems there -- washers that tear up your clothing, dryers with no heat settings, facilities dirty because the employees sat around watching Dr. Phil on the TV.
Then that one shut down.
And so did the other three that were within a 10mile drive.

Why? They claimed they couldn't afford utilities for the laundrymats anymore. So now, in my city, there is ONE and ONLY ONE Laundrymat left in a twenty mile radius. I was better off throwing my clothing in the car and driving the HOUR up to my Mom's and staying overnight to wash my clothing there!

So, you stupid ignorant jackass, until you've walked the last 8 years in my shoes, don't flap your goddamn mouth about things you have no clue about.

[Aaron]

I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the U.S. you've needed a Social Security card and some form of photo ID (drivers licence being the most common) since the Patriot Act was signed. At least that was what I was told when I opened my account in 2004.

Ghetto Edit:

Here is what the bank I deal with accepts as ID.

Two pieces of personal identification are required to open up a bank account. Either both pieces must be from the Schedule of Acceptable Identification (see below), OR one piece of identification from those listed in Part A of the Schedule of Acceptable Identification, if your identity is also confirmed by a client in good standing with Scotiabank, or by an individual of good standing in the community where your branch is located

Schedule of Acceptable Identification:
This list is provided per the 'Access to Basic Banking Services Regulations' under the Bank Act.
Part A

* A valid driver's licence issued in Canada, as permitted to be used for identification purposes under provincial law.i
* A valid Canadian passport.
* A Certificate of Canadian Citizenship or a Certification of Naturalization, in the form of a paper document or card, but not a commemorative issue.
* A Permanent Resident card or Citizenship and Immigration Canada Form IMM 1000, IMM 1442 or IMM 5292.
* A provincial health insurance card, as permitted to be used for identification purposes under provincial law.ii
* A Social Insurance Number card issued by the Government of Canada.
* An Old Age Security card issued by the Government of Canada.
* A certificate of Indian Status issued by the Government of Canada.
* A birth certificate issued in Canada.
* A document or card, bearing the individual's photograph and signature, issued by any of the following authorities:

o Insurance Corporation of British Columbia
o Alberta Registries
o Saskatchewan Government Insurance
o Department of Service Nova Scotia and Municipal Relations
o Department of Transportation and Public Works of the Province of Prince Edward Island
o Service New Brunswick
o Department of Government Services and Lands of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador
o Department of Transportation of the Northwest Territories
o Department of Community Government and Transportation of the Territory of Nunavut

Part B

* A credit card, issued by a member of the Canadian Payments Association in the name of, or bearing the name of, the individual and bearing the individual's signature.
* A Canadian National Institute for the Blind (CNIB) client card bearing the individual's photograph and signature.
* An employee identity card, issued by an employer that is well known in the community, bearing the individual's photograph.
* A bank or automated banking machine or client card, issued by a member of the Canadian Payments Association in the name of, or bearing the name of, the individual and bearing the individual's signature.
* A foreign passport.

We reserve the right to verify any identification presented by you, with the issuer.

[Starglider]

Like food: You don't have a car to get to a supermarket, much less to Costco or Trader Joe's, where the middle class goes to save money. You don't have three hours to take the bus. So you buy groceries at the corner store, where a gallon of milk costs an extra dollar.

I assume this is a consequence of US sprawl. In the UK you are rarely more than 30 minutes walk from a major supermarket, unless you live right out in the countryside. It is still a bit cheaper to get things in bulk from trade stores like Makro, but only a minority of people use those.

He puts back the liter of soda.

And you are buying soda why? That is a luxury item. Buy fruit concentrate if water is so distasteful, it's still something like a tenth the price of soda per litre.

They say houses are better, cheaper. But how are you going to get in a house if you don't have any money for a down payment?"

To be fair, properly implemented social housing is worth having, and I get the impression the US has very little of it compared to Europe (though unfortunately a lot of our social housing is an unqualified handout or worse an incentive to pop out welfare babies).

"The cheaper housing is in more-dangerous areas," says Reed, who lives in Southeast Washington.

Well yeah. Causation works both ways here.

I hate to say it, but just about all the anecedotes in this story are of really fucking stupid morons.

Well, it seems that way, but you can't really judge people based on a sentence or two carefully selected by a journalist trying to make a point.

Then the most awesome part is that the nearest DMV is three miles from the nearest bus stop.

Oh noes three whole miles! Why that's nearly as much as I used to walk to work every day! What are you, chronically obese?

That sounds like the guy is just trying to justify his own laziness and stupidity: the last line is where he shows a bit of honesty and admits he's willingly paying those exorbitant cheque-cashing fees because it's just more convenient. In short, he's a lazy short-sighted moron.

Agree, though there's a cultural aspect, in that if your parents and everyone you know doesn't have a bank account, it's easier to rationalise not getting one. If ACORN etc were going to do something useful actively going in and getting these people accounts would be better than encouraging poor people to get subprime mortagages.

Re; washers, can't you just get one from a second-hand store for $100 or so and give your buddy with the beat-up pickup truck a six-pack of beer for helping you get it home? Dryers are another unnecessary luxury, use a bloody drying rack, worked for me for eight years.

Re; learning skills, this is annecdotal, but in my industry you can learn everything except hardware and a few proprietary packages using a beat-up second hand PC ($200 at a store) and tools and material downloaded for free off the Internet (you don't even need your own Internet connection, take a USB stick to your local library). Sure it's not ideal, but it's doable - I learned something like 60% of my marketable skills from personal research and experimentation, 20% from formal training and 20% on the job.

[erik_t]

Or, you know, wash your clothes in a big tub and hang that shit on a rack. I understand it's possible. And shit, for twenty five bucks a week, I'd have done it in college when I had nothing better to do.

[LadyTevar]

I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the U.S. you've needed a Social Security card and some form of photo ID (drivers licence being the most common) since the Patriot Act was signed. At least that was what I was told when I opened my account in 2004.

IIRC (it's been years since I did it) all you need is a piece of ID (license, health card, birth certificate) and a bill or two in your name. My wife has never had a DL but has opened accounts before without hassle. In my direct experience most Canadians have a copy of their birth certificate in their possession and if not it's a fairly simple matter to write to the provincial health ministry and request a copy. It costs 10$ I believe.

With the Patriot Act, you cannot get a copy of your Birth Record or Social Security card without a photo-ID, or proof that you've lived in your place of residence for over 3 months. You cannot use a Social Security card to get a birth certificate, since they are too easily stolen and not a photo-ID. You have to have multiple copies of multiple months of bills/letters to your home address, because the mail could be stolen. If you are homeless, indigent, or have suffered a house fire or other calamity, you may present a letter of recommendation from the homeless shelter or care agency handling your case to obtain free copies of those records.
These are the Rules followed by the WV Vital Registration Office, in compliance with the Patriot Act. If you have none of the above, you're fucked. (BTW: WV Vitals is one of only TWO STATES that have a live operator answering phones. Push the "0", and you will hear a real person on the other end. We also have a 3-week turnover when you send in your order ... unless it's a credit card order, which has only a 3-day turnover (and is Much More Expensive) )