Oh, that's easy - he was in a lead-lined fridge then. Obviously invulnerable to any nuke.LordOskuro wrote:Pice of cake compared to surviving a nuclear explosion.

Moderator: NecronLord
Oh, that's easy - he was in a lead-lined fridge then. Obviously invulnerable to any nuke.LordOskuro wrote:Pice of cake compared to surviving a nuclear explosion.
I totally believe that Indiana Jones can do this.Duckie wrote:Subs are very tight and cramped, and there's maybe two dozen people onboard. They'll all know eachother personally. To survive on the inside, Indie has to kill every single nazi down there and somehow run the boat himself.
It's all clever, but it depends on your interpretation. Remember that the Grail is supposed to be protected by the power of God, and the miracles that happen around it (highly localized earthquakes, healing bullet wounds, guys turning into skeletons in about five seconds) suggest that it really is. In that case, trying to rig a way to get the Grail out of the temple isn't going to work, because you'll just get your ass smited in some other way.I.Jones (Lost Ark)
No one knew about the seal.
Also; What would have prevented the Nazi's from figuring a way around it? I mean, come on, put it back on the other side of the seal, attach a big rope to it or something (or destroy the seal), and you can still take the Grail out. (Just ideas)
Not quite.Drooling Iguana wrote:That Last Crusade bit could also apply to Raiders: If Indy had just stayed home, the Nazis would have found the Ark, opened it, and had their faces melt off. I don't remember Crystal Skull that well as I've only seen it once, but I'm pretty sure that things would have worked out the same way there without Indy's involvement: CommieChick gets skull, wakes up aliens, gets vaped, aliens go home. Really, Temple of Doom was the only time Indy's involvement didn't do more harm than good.
You make a new timeline and the Collective gets no benefit out of it.TC Pilot wrote:The Star Trek IV problem applies to First Contact, too. If the Borg sphere could travel back in time, why didn't the Cube do it, say, before it ran into the Federation fleet? Or why not launch the sphere right away and travel back in time?
Mainly a matter of getting your own asses out of the bad timeline you've found yourselves in, I expect.Samuel wrote:Of course why the Feds still use timetravel escapes me- perhaps they hope that the universe they are helping to fix will send a mission to them similtaneously?
Is that argument suppoused to actually make sense? Of course the Collective benefits. They assimilate Earth, as is blindingly obvious when the entire bridge crew sees the Borgified Earth. That also doesn't change the fact that the Borg did go back in time. So why not do it with their vastly larger, vastly more capable Cube while avoiding the entire Federation fleet in the process?Samuel wrote:You make a new timeline and the Collective gets no benefit out of it.
Possible, though that's a pretty weak cop-out, considering the Enterprise-E didn't have any trouble going through or recreating it to return home.LordOskuro wrote:Maybe whatever magic tech they used for time travel didn't work with the cube? It could be something as arbitrary as the geometry not being right, or something as understandable as "The cube is too massive".
No, the Collective in the new time line benefits. The Collective in this time line? They get nothing. If you have nothing else to do, you can send in the sphere on the off chance the super-powerful collective in the new time can get back to them and help them, but it's seriously a long shot anyway.TC Pilot wrote:Is that argument suppoused to actually make sense? Of course the Collective benefits. They assimilate Earth, as is blindingly obvious when the entire bridge crew sees the Borgified Earth. That also doesn't change the fact that the Borg did go back in time. So why not do it with their vastly larger, vastly more capable Cube while avoiding the entire Federation fleet in the process?Samuel wrote:You make a new timeline and the Collective gets no benefit out of it.
Where does this new/old timeline nonsense come from? We clearly see Earth Borgified after the sphere went back in time and before Enterprise followed them, so they're not creating some divergent universe independent of the old one. The Borg just went back in time and changed history.Darth Smiley wrote:No, the Collective in the new time line benefits. The Collective in this time line? They get nothing. If you have nothing else to do, you can send in the sphere on the off chance the super-powerful collective in the new time can get back to them and help them, but it's seriously a long shot anyway.
Ah, so it's a retcon in order to help butt-hurt fans get over the reboot. Pretty flimsy excuse, I'd say.The Romulan Republic wrote:As near as I can gather, it is assumed by a lot of people that time travel in Trek does not actually change anything, but merely creates an alternate timeline where events precede differently. Why one should assume this holds true 100% of the time I'm not sure, but this is as I recall the official explanation of what happened with Spock and Nero in the new Trek movie (all the old Trek still exists, its just another reality that Nero made).
So what about the alien Nazis in Enterprise season 4? Or that TOS episode where McCoy jumps through that portal and changes the outcome of World War II by saving that woman? Should we just retcon all that into some interdimensional nonsense so a few fans don't cry quite as hard about a reboot?Slacker wrote:Maybe some weird effect by the tunnel displaced the Enterprise into the future of the altered universe. Or something like that. With the time line fixed, they bounce back to their own quantum shenanigans.
I'm sorry if that's the impression I gave. The theory that time travel in Trek simply results in an alternate reality existed well before the new movie. I simply referenced the movie as a rare example where it is explicitely stated that this was the case.TC Pilot wrote: Ah, so it's a retcon in order to help butt-hurt fans get over the reboot. Pretty flimsy excuse, I'd say.
Is the distinction even remotely relevant to this, though? From the time traveller's perspective, there will be a change. For the Borg in First Contact, they'll return to a reality in which they've assimilated Earth. For the Klingons/Romulans in ST:IV who fly around a star at warp, they'll return to a reality in which their empire reigns supreme. It's not as if, having completed their mission, the time traveller will return to their original dimension.The Romulan Republic wrote:I'm sorry if that's the impression I gave. The theory that time travel in Trek simply results in an alternate reality existed well before the new movie. I simply referenced the movie as a rare example where it is explicitely stated that this was the case.\
Edit: To be honest, I kind of empathize with the writers' position here. A lot of fans were going to be pissed off if it was declared that the new movie canon overrode the old canon, perhaps even if the question were simply left unanswered. It could have been handled better, but the "alternate timelines" explanation in and of itself wasn't a terrible idea.