Rogue Trader RPG

[DPDarkPrimus]

What is "dos based damage", exactly?

As far as cinematic action goes, I can assure you that it does occur with higher-rank players. In a session I ran, the players were ambushed by a group of mercenaries who opened up combat by shooting the building they were in with a heavy-stubber, which blew gigantic holes in the wall and shredded a few NPCs. In the first round of combat, one of the players rolled Emperor's Fury on a targeted shot to the heavy stubber's ammo pack, causing him to explode in a gigantic ball of flame and shrapnel that eliminated half the mercenary group on the spot.

[Darmalus]

"dos based damage" sounds like Degree of Success based damage. I haven't played Rouge Trader, but the systems I've seen with DoS systems seem to work petty well most of the time, with some hilarious outliers if there is no built-in method of controlling runaway success (a friend of mine blew up a tank in Deadlands when he shot it with a pistol, expecting it to be a final, futile, gesture of defiance before his character died).

[Gunhead]

Darmalus is right. Dos = Degrees of success.
He's also right dos systems need a method for controlling the amount of successes or it can lead to odd results.

-Gunhead

[Lord Relvenous]

WRT the DH combat system, I just have to say is:

1. It's a quick system. My players aren't bogged down into multiple-hour long snore fests when we get into combat, unlike many games. Instead, they are actually excited about the prospect.

2. It's a straightforward system that while not 100% realistic, has enough realism to not be stupid. For example, in DnD, adding armor makes you harder to hit, not hurt. What? In DH, the armor has an impact on the damage taken by the character, and the benefits of said armor can be adjusted by what is hitting it.

3. As a GM, there are multiple ways that the results gives me help in describing the flow of the combat. Hit location gives me (obviously) a description. Penetration vs. Armor gives me an indication of how the attacks interaction with the armor should be narrated. Damage vs. Toughness bonus tell me whether it's just a scratch (After armor, 5 damage to a TB 4 character), or if this attack will have a noticeable effect and should be described as such (12 damage to a TB3 character).

4. The Critical Damage system adds tension to taking damage, and allows for great cinematic sequences and kills. In other systems that just incorporate a "at 0 you drop unconscious, at (arbitrary number) you are dead" players are rarely punished for dropping below 0, and thus if they can keep their characters alive, they have no ill-effects from the encounter after some rest/healing. An unlucky DH character that takes a nasty hit to the hand could very well lose the hand to a single shot, or if the damage was not that bad, lose blood and become stunned and weakened. However, they are still on their feet albiet with a nasty injury as you would expect. Critical Damage regularly defines in some ways my players' characters as the sessions go on, as a player who loses a leg to a booby-trapped door will forever have to deal with that loss, and will treat reaching 0 as an event of pure terror, not one of "Oh, well make sure I don't die and I'm fine." Also, describing the effects of a character's kill in full gory detail (along with game effects) adds atmosphere to the combat and increases player enjoyment.

5. Finally, it's a fun system. Now this is a subjective one, but I personally find the DH combat system intuitive and easy to grasp for players, allowing players to quickly become comfortable with their characters' abilities and find ways to implement tactics and strategies into their combat past "let's flank him, and then hit him repeatedly". This allows them to effect the combat in more subtle ways than straight damage dealing and again, increases player enjoyment as they are more completely involved with the combat.

Personally, I think the DH system has its flaws, but I don't think combat overall is one of them. The DH system means I can give my players who want combat a fight or two each session and still have time left for roleplaying and out of combat interaction, rather than having to devote whole sessions to completing an overly long combat that lost my players interest long ago.

For clarity purposes, I should tell you that my RPG experience is limited to Scion, Star Wars (both editions), 3.5 and 4.0 Dnd, DH, and Pathfinder, so there could very well be systems that incorporate some or all of my points mentioned above. That's great. However, that does not discount the value of the DH system.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Yeah, the combat is not super-realistic, but it's a Warhammer 40,000 role-playing game. It's much more about cool factor than realism.