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Odd question: Does the game allow there to be more than one of each class in the game at a time? If so is there some avatar customisation so you can tell each other apart?

Also "Emo guys" hawk interests me because I like AI pets, what kind of things can it do? I noticed in one video it had the acid damage type applied to its attacks - can you do this with other damage types and how is it handled?

You sure can; something I'm pretty thankful about. The 'four treasure seekers' thing is just a framing plot you'll forget in twenty seconds.

The hawk isn't really a pet; it's like a status effect attack. It's a fast-cooldown thing that can be set up to do a few different things. It seems pretty useful with the stun effect on it.

EDIT - You can change 3 colours on your outfit, so it's not terribly customisable, but there's constant nametags so there's not much scope for confusion. Even though I keep confusing Chairman's character with a badguy...

Aaron Ash wrote: Also "Emo guys" hawk interests me because I like AI pets, what kind of things can it do? I noticed in one video it had the acid damage type applied to its attacks - can you do this with other damage types and how is it handled?

There are talent calculators on the official website (www.87bazillion.com). I'm more interested in him as a sniper class, so I haven't really looked at the pet stuff, but it can enhance loot drops, stun things, attack things, and be made to attack more targets at once and the like.

I pretty much just want to play the black guy (it's my fetish, okay?). Admittedly the hunter dude having skills specifically for revolvers appeals to me for some reason.

For some reason I didn't find any revolvers until past level 15. I'm sure this is just bad luck, though. I've only seen a single rocket-launcher too, and that has saved me from dying dozens of times.

Stark wrote:The idea anyone would play this coop and not cooperate makes me laugh. Running around in +3 areas getting mad loot and varying tactics with the good guns is mad. I just hope weapon skills don't max at 10 as they appear to.

It was a friend's little brother who bought it for 360, he wasn't bad-bad, but he rarely waited to try and get rezed/second wind and we rarely targeted the same bullet-sponge at the same time. Didn't help that I couldn't find my 360 mic.

The weapon skills do indeed go well past ten. My SMG's sitting at 15 now, and it's got some nice accuracy, reload speed, and damage buffs because of it.

Hah, little brother disease.

With regard to second wind, it's actually really neat how it means your teammates either need to heal you (if you're close and in cover) or help soften up other badguys, but not kil them. I played last night and my partner kept killing all the nearly dead guys close to me so I couldn't cheese it. Lucky I have a giant rocket launcher. Then again, the 'nearly dead' guy is immune to damage while being healed, so crouchign behind them to heal = funny stuff.

Can you tell me what the scale is like at 10+ proficiencies? I'm curious if the bonuses slow down (ie, +1% rof etc) or if the levels become harder to get, because I've got pretty fast progress on several weapontypes and I'm afraid it'll turn into '+150% accuracy' and the like. I'm pleased the different weapons get different bonuses - the reload bonuses on launchers really helps rocket spam get you second wind.

I wanted to note for people who hate level requirements that the level req on weapons is not always closely linked to weapon power. I have a shield that needs level 20 that isn't that great, and I have a level 9 gun that I still use at 18 because it's so awesome. The requirements pace you before you can use it, but they don't generally become useless as you level (rather, you tend to replace them yourself). It isnt' a very aggressive and narrow system, which is good because I hate level requirements.

It stays low but constant so far... But the speed at which you get them slows up considerably. 1-4's probably a couple dozen bad guys? I spent the last thirdish primarily using my second Double Anarchy SMG, and it's only just hit 16 today, on my second playthrough. (With a sprinkling of Triple-rocket acid launcher for Lance, and an accurate S&S Machine Gun for long distance targets.)

I don't quite recall the bonuses, but nothing had made it above 30%, iirc. (Might have had recoil or something at 36. Damage is still at 9.) But the three buffs are different from weapon to weapon.

That's reassuring. Game progress all around seems to be very fast, which bothers me with regard to the longevity of the game. Even levelling is very fast.

Stark. Is this better than Gears?

Uhh... depends? I'm liking it, and it's as much fun coop as horde, but it lacks that intensity and it's got a bit of the Fable 2 style 'walk over here now' thing. It is a shitload of fun regardless. Definately a game we'll be cooping for a while.

Oh and my guy is blue with yellow goggles and his name is Baird. Case closed.

It seems to be the same deal with the character levels... 1-15~ go by in damn near a blink, and most weapons prior to that are obsolete very quickly. But I was only 35 by the time I beat the game, and after doing about half the quests in Fyrestone again, I'm only 36.

(And I beat EVERY quest my first go round, "Fully Loaded" and both "Made in ___" achievements.)

I kinda wish there was an option to make a level 25 on a second go through then; the whole Fyrestone area is basically a noob zone and I don't want to do it half a dozen times.

Yeah, it's rather a pain. As you do -everything- over again. ECHO-device HUD boot, slaughter-stroll through the bandits... ultra-nub questline, -including- the "Buy a grenade" TKBaha quest...

On the bright side: Base level started at 33 for the Skagg Pups. (Who're now ANGRY!) And I'm running into a -lot- of tougher mobs. Including one encounter on the Bladeflower quest in Skagg Gully which had an Alpha Skagg, a BA Corrosive Skagg, and a BA Skagg all at once. Died twice to that.

correction on the proficiency: At 18, my SMG gives me +18% Damage, +36% Reload Speed, and 54% Accuracy... If the Launcher skill follows the same progression, it still shouldn't be an issue.

The hard levelling really hurts this game. If they doubled the 'totally one-sided' space, the game would be a lot more 'explore-y' or flexible, instead of the pretty linear and short experience it is now. Whoever decided 3-4 levels was enough to reduce incoming damage to basically zero was an idiot, especially considering there are other systems in place to create 'tough fights'. It just limits the players to a very narrow strip of content at a given level that isn't piss easy or incredibly tiresome ammo-runs.

I agree rather whole heartedly. Though I was waiting on your take, given your stance on being too low level to kill something in an RPG in the prelaunch thread.

I haven't noticed it being a problem outside of the Fyrestone region, where you can stumble into the mine and get decimated by the crab worms. But it really hurts the ability for people to just jump into each other's games.

Have you managed to complete it?

Obviously level relationships have to be meaningful, but when they already have same level guys that are hard/easy to kill, I don't know why they went with the 'omg 3 levels up = you doomed' nonsense. Playing in a low-level game is utterly boring and playing in a high-level game is just frustrating. Magically reducing my gun's damage based on level relationships is not how to make a game hard; but I guess they fucked themselves by not having values for defence.

I'm not sure I'll ever complete it; outside of coop I'm not really interested in playing it anymore. The game needs either way more content or random levels to be interesting.

Ghetto: For those waiting for the PC version, it of course looks much better with way better textures. However, when they said the PC would have a different, specifically PC interface, that was about as true as the whole random level generation thing. The interface is exactly the same, just word-swapped, and you can't even drag in the inventory. The dpad slots that show you which way to press don't even have the numbers 1-4 on it; they're just empty.

There's just enough bad choices visible in the development that it's rather disappointing... It's good fun that first playthrough... but round two is effectively wiping all the quest flags, dumping you back in Fyrestone and bumping everything up 34~ levels...

The lack of mic control on the PC version also proved annoying today... as my friends stopped being able to hear anything over the ingame voice, and decided to use our ventrillo... which means I had about an hour of hearing everything double...

On the one hand, I hope the DLC adds a fair few hours, (Like, actual God Damned expansion...) and comes quickly, on the other... Even my grindy loot whoriness... is starting to wear thin... Ah well, still got MHFU & R-Type Command... And Ratchet & Clank drops another title this week... If only I wasn't broke.

The sad thing is that if Borderlands was a real MMO (as opposed to a coop MMO-em-up) the devs would fix the problems to maintain their cashflow. It seems pretty unlikely Borderlands will be patched to reach it's potential, which is a shame because it's great looking and great fun (and even a good shooter) but just not all there.

I remember hearing that, in addition to the guns, both the levels and enemies would also be randomly generated - to what extent is this true? Also for anyone who has played it for a while: are there any character skills to avoid or which are too specialised to be really useful?

Anyway even taking into account the issues raised here I am still really looking forward to this. Here's hoping my PC copy arrives today, although apparently it won't be playable until the official release date on Thursday (seems a bit mean as the PC had to wait a week anyway).

A few of the skills appear to be broken or don't do anything (especially the Siren ones). The class mods don't show you how/where the skill bonuses are either; the game lacks a Diablo-em-up standard 'what is my overall list of bonuses' thing, and a gun with accuracy 50 and +23% accuracy doesn't tell you if it's 23% of base, skill modified, etc. Do skill bonuses apply to zero-level skills? 5/5 skills? Who knows.

The randomness appears to be a complete load of bullshit to me. The areas are large and loot spots are random-ish and spawns are flexible, but the idea that you'd go out into a new instanced area and meet badguys with new and interesting capabilities to keep the game fresh is simply not true. You'll play the same quests every single time with the same badguys everywhere on the same maps.

Stark wrote:and a gun with accuracy 50 and +23% accuracy doesn't tell you if it's 23% of base, skill modified, etc.

The accuracy displayed is the final accuracy with any applicable bonuses.

Do skill bonuses apply to zero-level skills? 5/5 skills? Who knows.

No and yes, in that order.

Aaron Ash wrote:I remember hearing that, in addition to the guns, both the levels and enemies would also be randomly generated - to what extent is this true?

Not very. Levels are fixed environments, the enemies that spawn in them are slightly random, so an area that spawns bandits could spawn a different mix of melee and shooty bandits with different weapons, but it will always be bandits.

Overall, it's a game that needs co-op, it's just not rewarding enough solo.

Weapon design is excellent genius, though. I reloaded a shotgun and was stunned to discover that it was a top break revolver and that you feed the shells in with a giant speedloader. Incredible!

Stark wrote:The hard levelling really hurts this game.

You know, I was actually surprised when I ran into a level 10 Adult Skag when I was level 3 and it completely murdered me in two hits. I guess playing lots of games with levelled content DOES make you forget how RPGs were originally designed.