Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
Moderator: Alyrium Denryle
Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
Actually, only the LRO took pictures of landing sites with definitive detail. Kaguya and Chandrayaan both had rather poor resolution, though you can corroborate the mountains of other evidence for the landings:
Kaguya composite photograph of Apollo 15s landing site
Chandrayaan-1 composite photo of the same
LRO photo of Apollo 14's site
Kaguya only had a 10m/pixel resolution, so you can only see the distrubance in the soil left by the lunar lander. Chandrayaan can show you more: there are tracks left by the lunar rover. The LRO shows not only foot tracks, but even the larger individual pieces of equipment, as well as the lunar lander.
Of course, for the hoaxers, all the above photos are faked or of "poor quality". If they were better, then it would be evidence for them being faked (because they'd be too good, you see )
Kaguya composite photograph of Apollo 15s landing site
Chandrayaan-1 composite photo of the same
LRO photo of Apollo 14's site
Kaguya only had a 10m/pixel resolution, so you can only see the distrubance in the soil left by the lunar lander. Chandrayaan can show you more: there are tracks left by the lunar rover. The LRO shows not only foot tracks, but even the larger individual pieces of equipment, as well as the lunar lander.
Of course, for the hoaxers, all the above photos are faked or of "poor quality". If they were better, then it would be evidence for them being faked (because they'd be too good, you see )
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
- Zixinus
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
Ah, wasn't paying attention. Sorry.uhm... That was what Simon_Jester was obviuosly refering to, why would you try to explain it to someone who namedrops the incident?
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
The other night my dad and I had an interesting discussion on the nature of "Conspiracies" as a whole. One of the things we discussed, which I had forgot about, was an incident in the 70's that involved the Glomar Explore
For those that don't know, around 1968, a Russian Sub, the K-129, sunk in deep water. The Russian Government was unable to locate it, however later that year its location was pinpointed by an American sub. Fast forward to 1973 and the CIA decides it is going to 'recover' the soviet sub. Thus Project Jennifer was born. A scheme to build a machine that could deep into the ocean and physically lift the sub to the surface. At the time, some in the CIA Were very resistant, stating that such an action could amount to an Act of War if the Soviets ever found out about it. Eventually construction of a ship that could haul the sub to surface began under incredible secrecy. Every aspect of the project was closely monitored and those involved watched and inspected.
Eventually the grand project went ahead. There was an elaborate cover story cooked up that was fed to the media and the press . Howard Huges evidently had built a ship to try and mine the riches of the Ocean bottom. For the length of the operation, the story was received and believed by the media. However by the ned of 1974, a single Reporter, Seymour Hersh, had uncovered the story. The CIA evidently asked him not to publish the story, instead the LA Times waited until after the operations completion, and published the story in 1975.
Now...
What does all this have to do with a Moon Hoax?
Basically, the events of the 'Glomar Explorer' are perhaps the largest and most well documented "conspiracy" that is known about. It was a top secret operation that very well could have started war with the Soviet Union, all aspects where supposed to be kept forever secret. Yet, a single reporter, acting on a few leads, uncovered the entire operation. Compared to what is involved in a Moon Hoax, the Glomar Explore is a fraction of the size, cost as well as people involved.
The thing about the Moon Hoax, is that in order for one to actually believe it, you have to believe that the whole operation has been held in "Perfect" Secracy not just for a few years, but almost 40 years. Compare that to the Glomar Explore, in which the entire thing was exposed before the operation had even finished. The crux of the Moon Hoax is that it must be ongoing, that 'if' it existed, that there must be an organization that keeps a constant and forever vigil of stealing evidence, discrediting sources, and 'silencing' anyone that comes forward. Here again we compare things with 'Glomar' the Moon Hoaxers routinely bring up 'reports' that several NASA engineers as well as Astronauts "died mysterious" the implication being that the Government killed anyone that might expose the Moon Hoax. If this where the case, how hard would it have been to 'silence' Seymour Hersh? At the time that he uncovered the story, he was the only one that knew about it. Even after he went to the LA Times, there were less then a half dozen where had been told about it. Surely for an operation that could very well cause Nuclear War if uncovered, wouldn't the government 'silence' these people?
All together, in order for the 'Moon Hoax' to be believed, we have to accept that, for the past 40years, the US government, throughout multiply administrations, has continuously, and almost 'perfectly' kept any form of evidence or person from coming forward that would expose the hoax.
If the events of the Glomar Explore, an operation that used a Fraction of the people, money, and resources as what the Moon Hoax would need; If the Glomar Explore could not be kept in the same amount of secrecy, for less then a single year, how could anyone expect us to believe the staggering Scale of what a 40year long Moon Landing Hoax would involve.
For those that don't know, around 1968, a Russian Sub, the K-129, sunk in deep water. The Russian Government was unable to locate it, however later that year its location was pinpointed by an American sub. Fast forward to 1973 and the CIA decides it is going to 'recover' the soviet sub. Thus Project Jennifer was born. A scheme to build a machine that could deep into the ocean and physically lift the sub to the surface. At the time, some in the CIA Were very resistant, stating that such an action could amount to an Act of War if the Soviets ever found out about it. Eventually construction of a ship that could haul the sub to surface began under incredible secrecy. Every aspect of the project was closely monitored and those involved watched and inspected.
Eventually the grand project went ahead. There was an elaborate cover story cooked up that was fed to the media and the press . Howard Huges evidently had built a ship to try and mine the riches of the Ocean bottom. For the length of the operation, the story was received and believed by the media. However by the ned of 1974, a single Reporter, Seymour Hersh, had uncovered the story. The CIA evidently asked him not to publish the story, instead the LA Times waited until after the operations completion, and published the story in 1975.
Now...
What does all this have to do with a Moon Hoax?
Basically, the events of the 'Glomar Explorer' are perhaps the largest and most well documented "conspiracy" that is known about. It was a top secret operation that very well could have started war with the Soviet Union, all aspects where supposed to be kept forever secret. Yet, a single reporter, acting on a few leads, uncovered the entire operation. Compared to what is involved in a Moon Hoax, the Glomar Explore is a fraction of the size, cost as well as people involved.
The thing about the Moon Hoax, is that in order for one to actually believe it, you have to believe that the whole operation has been held in "Perfect" Secracy not just for a few years, but almost 40 years. Compare that to the Glomar Explore, in which the entire thing was exposed before the operation had even finished. The crux of the Moon Hoax is that it must be ongoing, that 'if' it existed, that there must be an organization that keeps a constant and forever vigil of stealing evidence, discrediting sources, and 'silencing' anyone that comes forward. Here again we compare things with 'Glomar' the Moon Hoaxers routinely bring up 'reports' that several NASA engineers as well as Astronauts "died mysterious" the implication being that the Government killed anyone that might expose the Moon Hoax. If this where the case, how hard would it have been to 'silence' Seymour Hersh? At the time that he uncovered the story, he was the only one that knew about it. Even after he went to the LA Times, there were less then a half dozen where had been told about it. Surely for an operation that could very well cause Nuclear War if uncovered, wouldn't the government 'silence' these people?
All together, in order for the 'Moon Hoax' to be believed, we have to accept that, for the past 40years, the US government, throughout multiply administrations, has continuously, and almost 'perfectly' kept any form of evidence or person from coming forward that would expose the hoax.
If the events of the Glomar Explore, an operation that used a Fraction of the people, money, and resources as what the Moon Hoax would need; If the Glomar Explore could not be kept in the same amount of secrecy, for less then a single year, how could anyone expect us to believe the staggering Scale of what a 40year long Moon Landing Hoax would involve.
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Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
Also, take note of the difference in stakes: what the CIA did threatened to spark a crisis which could, potentially, lead to a massive nuclear holocaust. Yet, all they did when they found out the operation's been compromised, was ask the LA times not to publish it. Of course, it probably looked something like "If you publish the story now, your newspaper will be in a lot of trouble", but there was pretty much no retribution once it went public in 1975.
On the other hand, the only stake in the moon hoax is national pride ; There was no threat of megadeaths and cities destroyed by nuclear fire ; Yet NASA supposedly murders the people involved? And, of course, they're all too stupid to take basic precautions, like stashing away copies of incriminating evidence somewhere, or releasing a book exposing the hoax after they're dead.
===============
Naturally, hoaxers will use a (decent) argument that it doesn't matter why, if the evidence points to a conclusion, it has to be true. Of course, their evidence is based on ignorance and lies, but they firmly believe otherwise
What I like the most, though, is the fact that no hoaxer ever has reported NASA to their local DA's office. Think about it: they (claim to) believe that NASA has murdered several astronauts and civilian workers in order to cover up the hoax. Yet, they make blog posts and website about it, instead of reporting what is a heinous crime. Shouldn't they be pestering their DAs with reports? Demanding an investigation in the media? Raising all sorts of hell? Hell, if the DA threw their report away (likely), doesn't it give them more ammunition?
It's pretty obvious their little escapades are all about the thrill, rather than actual search for truth. Same with 9/11 troofers who spend their time analyzing youtube videos instead of actively trying to abolish a government they (claim to) believe murdered 3000 US citizens in cold blood.
On the other hand, the only stake in the moon hoax is national pride ; There was no threat of megadeaths and cities destroyed by nuclear fire ; Yet NASA supposedly murders the people involved? And, of course, they're all too stupid to take basic precautions, like stashing away copies of incriminating evidence somewhere, or releasing a book exposing the hoax after they're dead.
===============
Naturally, hoaxers will use a (decent) argument that it doesn't matter why, if the evidence points to a conclusion, it has to be true. Of course, their evidence is based on ignorance and lies, but they firmly believe otherwise
What I like the most, though, is the fact that no hoaxer ever has reported NASA to their local DA's office. Think about it: they (claim to) believe that NASA has murdered several astronauts and civilian workers in order to cover up the hoax. Yet, they make blog posts and website about it, instead of reporting what is a heinous crime. Shouldn't they be pestering their DAs with reports? Demanding an investigation in the media? Raising all sorts of hell? Hell, if the DA threw their report away (likely), doesn't it give them more ammunition?
It's pretty obvious their little escapades are all about the thrill, rather than actual search for truth. Same with 9/11 troofers who spend their time analyzing youtube videos instead of actively trying to abolish a government they (claim to) believe murdered 3000 US citizens in cold blood.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
Reminds me of a line from the recent Batman movie, spoken to a man who threatens to reveal Batman's identity unless he's paid off:
"Let me get this straight: You think that your client, one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands. And your plan is to blackmail this person? Good luck."
I'm always amazed by either the stupidity* or the misplaced courage** of conspiracy theorists.
*It takes a very small brain to claim the conspiracy is a killer in one breath and then hawk the book you've written about them in the next.
**If you really believe that the conspiracy kills people, and are not quite dumb enough to miss the implication that "people" includes "you," then it takes a great deal of courage to keep talking about the conspiracy. Of course, this courage is utterly wasted because you're being brave in the face of a nonexistent threat, but you are still being brave. Foolishly so, in all likelihood.
"Let me get this straight: You think that your client, one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands. And your plan is to blackmail this person? Good luck."
I'm always amazed by either the stupidity* or the misplaced courage** of conspiracy theorists.
*It takes a very small brain to claim the conspiracy is a killer in one breath and then hawk the book you've written about them in the next.
**If you really believe that the conspiracy kills people, and are not quite dumb enough to miss the implication that "people" includes "you," then it takes a great deal of courage to keep talking about the conspiracy. Of course, this courage is utterly wasted because you're being brave in the face of a nonexistent threat, but you are still being brave. Foolishly so, in all likelihood.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
It's like being the prince in the Prince's exam: you don't need to actually do the exam, the professor is too fucking scared of your family's power to even think about giving you a bad grade, you can ask the professor to just write up the damn thing and pass it out without insulting his intelligence.
But you do it because you pretended to be a humble student excelling at the same thing as the filthy non-aristocrats do, while knowing full well that you haven't studied or made as much effort as they did. So you can watch as you make the most atrocious bullshit up and the professor trying to justify it.
(This is a comedy gig that dates back between the world wars).
But you do it because you pretended to be a humble student excelling at the same thing as the filthy non-aristocrats do, while knowing full well that you haven't studied or made as much effort as they did. So you can watch as you make the most atrocious bullshit up and the professor trying to justify it.
(This is a comedy gig that dates back between the world wars).
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
I don't know, it may be just an inflated sense of their own importance. I've seen that argument proposed in response to the question "Why didn't the government kill those two jerkoffs responsible for Loose Change, if they had no trouble murdering 3000 people in the towers?"Simon_Jester wrote: **If you really believe that the conspiracy kills people, and are not quite dumb enough to miss the implication that "people" includes "you," then it takes a great deal of courage to keep talking about the conspiracy. Of course, this courage is utterly wasted because you're being brave in the face of a nonexistent threat, but you are still being brave. Foolishly so, in all likelihood.
The answer? If they killed them, that would be proof the government is responsible for destroying the WTC!
Because, obviously, when the Black Helicopter Brigade decides to kill somebody, they leave a little note saying who did it. And naturally, The People would rally to the cause if these guys had an accident and their little movie was taken down for "copyright violation", rather than mostly forgetting they ever existed.
It's just another reason I think they don't really believe what they say is true, or they'd be terrified and paranoid. Or at least use proxy servers to post about the murderous shadow government,because...well, goddamn, man, it's the freakin' internet
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
- Zixinus
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
This is what I call the Andrew's Law of Exciting Conspiracy theories: people who make up conspiracy theories in their free time, as opposed to people who do it professionally and therefore paranoid and terrified out of their life, always go for the most exciting explanation rather than the most simple one, regardless of logic, evidence or feasibility of that explanation.Also, take note of the difference in stakes: what the CIA did threatened to spark a crisis which could, potentially, lead to a massive nuclear holocaust. Yet, all they did when they found out the operation's been compromised, was ask the LA times not to publish it. Of course, it probably looked something like "If you publish the story now, your newspaper will be in a lot of trouble", but there was pretty much no retribution once it went public in 1975.
On the other hand, the only stake in the moon hoax is national pride ; There was no threat of megadeaths and cities destroyed by nuclear fire ; Yet NASA supposedly murders the people involved? And, of course, they're all too stupid to take basic precautions, like stashing away copies of incriminating evidence somewhere, or releasing a book exposing the hoax after they're dead.
For example: the above. Sure, they threatened the reporter. But they just as easily could have bribed him. I am sure that almost no one here would at least not consider keeping silent about some military types digging up a wreck if they are told they don't have to pay taxes for the rest of their lives.
It could be money, it could overlooking certain tax practises, it could be forgetting that the reporter forgot to renew his driver's license, a random audit for the reporter's apartment regarding safety standards, towing away his car because he violated some minute parking regulation, etc.
The government doesn't need black hawk helicopters and super-commandos to silence someone when there are plenty of cheaper, more effective legal means to make someone's life hell to the point that they'll agree to anything.
And we're not even talking about criminal means that a government could act. Incriminating documents ranging from photos to video tapes that can be even fabricated if none is available, using financial ransom, creating a drug addiction that makes the reporter too busy wanting his next fix to bother about revealing the truth, etc.
So why murder? Because murder is exciting. It triggers something viscerally exciting in people and if you hear that "and all of this was kept in the dark by killing hundreds of people" you have something gripping and exciting. People will want to read more and learn more, and in the process feel that they have acquired a gem of pure Truth.
If they hate the government, they have further proof (in their minds) that the government is evil and must be destroyed. If they hate science, they have further proof that science is evil.
A theory that says that NASA hired some undiscovered talent movie actors, a couple of guys from Hollywood to make a Moon scene and none of these people talk because they don't have to pay income tax for years and because they are given a fat, rich paycheck isn't exciting. It's boring and therefore, less worthy of attention, thus less worthy of consideration. A juicy tale about secret killings and massive conspiracies of powerful and paranoid nutters is much more interesting to talk about at the office water cooler.
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
It would also make no sense: somebody built the Saturn V, which always launched with a massive audience.Zixinus wrote: A theory that says that NASA hired some undiscovered talent movie actors, a couple of guys from Hollywood to make a Moon scene and none of these people talk because they don't have to pay income tax for years and because they are given a fat, rich paycheck isn't exciting. It's boring and therefore, less worthy of attention, thus less worthy of consideration. A juicy tale about secret killings and massive conspiracies of powerful and paranoid nutters is much more interesting to talk about at the office water cooler.
I had once tried to figure out the minimum number of people who would need to be in on the conspiracy. Of course I failed, since I can't really be bothered to check how many engineers worked for Grumman and other companies on the Apollo project, but even with easily available data, the number quickly spirals out of control.
Let's consider the question: Who would need to know the entire thing was a sham? Certainly, all the astronauts who allegedly landed on the moon. You have seven lunar missions, six landings and one abort - that's 21 people who need to be bribed or threatened into lying for the rest of their lives in just the primary crews. I suppose backup crews wouldn't need to know.
Then there's the top movers: a conspiracy that large needs to be organized. Under a minimalistic theory, NASA built all the hardware as if it was real, but had no actual capability to land on the moon and return from it. Let's put aside the fact it's a retarded theory: under it, we can cut the number of astronauts to 18, since Apollo 13's crew didn't need to know, and none of the engineers, managers etc. didn't either, since they lived under the impression that they were, in fact, shooting for the moon.
But! Wait, we need to fake the photos, right? There's about 6000 frames from a lunar surface. Let's go minimalistic again: we need a studio, props and at least one actor, a photographer and lightning tech to make the baseline photographs, then somebody to make them look as if they were made on the Moon. There's no way one person can fake 6000 frames in reasonable time ; Even if it takes a mere 10 minutes to arrange the photo, airbrush it, add details, shoot and develop the fake, that's 1000 man-hours, or 125 working days for a single person. A more realistic figure is something like an hour per frame, though. An you need someone to supervise the process and catch any mistakes before they get reprinted in the press.
And then you need someone to manage the archive during the process and afterwards.
So we have 18 astronauts, three people on the set itself plus a prop man, at least two techs to fake the pics plus their supervisor, and someone managing the archives: 26 people just on the technical end of the process need to know they're faking the landings.
Ah, but we also have movies and rock samples! That adds another actor and a camera operator at the least: 28 people. We also need sound techs to manage fake transmissions in order to fool mission control: probably something like five people to make sure telemetry and chatter look believable (astronauts could do the chatter, no need to get another person in). Then you need to get a lab in which to fake the moon rocks: how many techs? Let's say merely two would be enough, though I seriously doubt it.
So, a total of 35 people is the lower limit for the technical side of a conspiracy so ridiculously minimalistic that NASA might've just gone ahead and landed anyway, since it assumes they had all the gear in working order, just not the capability for whatever reason. And of course none of these people decided to secretely write a book about it and publish it 40 years later.
If we use a more reasonable theory, like "We couldn't get the lunar lander to work", you suddendly get an influx of hundreds of engineers, techs and managers at Grumman who need to be bought/threatened. Again, just on the technical side: what about the people who coordinated and planned it all?
Really, the way NASA handled it is totally counterproductive to building a conspiracy, which I suppose it's kind of the point: they decided to release as much material as possible to make it absolutely certain for anyone with a brain the landings happened. I mean, how do you get the Soviets to lie to the public when you give them Moon rocks that don't chemically match their own lunar soil samples (they had a small quantity of lunar dust from their Luna program)? Why give them any rocks at all?
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
- Zixinus
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
Of course it made no sense. Whether that theory made any sense is irrelevant to my point, because I know that my theory is silly: my point is that it's not only silly but also boring.
It would also make no sense: somebody built the Saturn V, which always launched with a massive audience.
If you go out trying to show lies as truth by bullshit logic, you might as well make the lie interesting because people remember interesting lies. Putting in murder, something that is actually always just a little bit more complicated than most people would like to think, makes it interesting. All as long as it allows a more childish world-view where the teller and his audience is put into positive light, you can get away with it.
Conspiracy theories are stories and I would reckon that part of the reason people like it so much is because it gives them similar gratification that good stories do. Except they play with suspension of disbelief by saying that everything they say is all true. The rest is psychology. Point is that a story should be exciting, and they make it exciting by black hawk helicopters and super-assassins.
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Chat with me on Skype if you want to talk about writing, ideas or if you want a test-reader! PM for address.
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Re: Is this a decent argument for moon landing hoax debate?
<<SNIPP huge summery>>
WELL SAID! you've basically put some meat and bones on my initial augment and make a great point. The whole thing with Hoaxers is that there is NO POINT in 'debating' them. No amount of logic or evidence will discredit their views point by point.. The fake photos, the murders, the sets built somewhere... Nothing you could say or show would ever make them change their minds.
The only way to truely come to terms with this whole nonsense is the sheer SCALE required for a 40year conspiracy.
WELL SAID! you've basically put some meat and bones on my initial augment and make a great point. The whole thing with Hoaxers is that there is NO POINT in 'debating' them. No amount of logic or evidence will discredit their views point by point.. The fake photos, the murders, the sets built somewhere... Nothing you could say or show would ever make them change their minds.
The only way to truely come to terms with this whole nonsense is the sheer SCALE required for a 40year conspiracy.
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!