Obama shows foreign leader respect, pisses off idiot critics

[The Duchess of Zeon]

This was an unacceptable gesture. People of equal rank do not bow to each other,

Flat wrong. In America, you shake hands when you meet; in Japan, you bow. Bowing lower than the other person is a sign of deference, but in this case Obama's not doing it right anyway so it's clear he's not put that much thought into this. And it's not clear to me that in the Hirohito/Reagan picture, the Emperor obviously is bowing as well; whereas in Obama's picture he obviously is not. Not that it matters one whit anyway.

I'm talking about in terms of international etiquette between people of rank, not Japanese etiquette. Note that Putin doesn't show one inch. It was okay when Nixon bowed in the proper manner and it was reciprocated, even if it wasn't what we'd consider truly appropriate etiquette between leaders.

[Gil Hamilton]

I'm talking about in terms of international etiquette between people of rank, not Japanese etiquette. Note that Putin doesn't show one inch. It was okay when Nixon bowed in the proper manner and it was reciprocated, even if it wasn't what we'd consider truly appropriate etiquette between leaders.

I'm failing to see your outrage. Who exactly cares if President Obama gave a bow to Emperor Akihito again? It was a photo op because someone in the White House staff decided it would be a good idea to show Obama is multiculture and respects Japanese culture. That's transparant enough. So why flip your wig over a publicity stunt? It's not like Obama is actually submitting to the Emperor of Japan or that anyone thinks he is. It's a publicity gesture.

[Duckie]

Not only that- granted, the man is Emperor, but even to Tenno Heika it looks like a bit much in the modern day when the dude isn't worshipped as a god, and it's especially much given that as a non-Japanese person he's not actually expected to do anthing like that. He could have easily gotten away with something that looked more like a bowed head or a nod.

[Razorgeist]

Who gives a fuck? Oh no, he bowed to a member of foreign royalty! Oh no, he didn't do it right!

The economy is in shambles, we're in two wars, the conservative filth grow ever more strident and violent in their screaming, and we're to care how the president bows to Japan's emperor? Yeah, no. An awkwardly-performed gesture of respect shouldn't be high on anyone's priorities.

Pretty much my thoughts on the subject as well. It sucks because the 2 right-wing wackjobs i work with were making a big deal out of this.

[Prannon]

As someone who lives in Korea and has seen a lot of bowing, it does look like the emperor is at least ducking his head in response to Obama's bow. It's also been the case that whenever I bow deeply, such as when I meet the parent of a student that I teach, the other person laughs a little and seems a little surprised that I would show that much deference and respect. It's not something expected of foreigners. My guess is that the emperor was surprised and at least ducked his head to acknowledge the admittedly awkward bow.

The actual act of bowing isn't something that people should get all bent out of shape over. It's very much a part of the culture and it's how people greet each other. It's the way that Obama does it, in grandiose fashion, while also shaking the emperor's hand, that irks me. It also sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the other heads of state, which I don't consider a good thing publicity-wise. It makes it seem like all that much more of a publicity stunt rather than an acknowledgement to the culture.

That said, I have no problems with Obama bowing to the emperor. I'd rather have a respectful gentleman in the White House than an arrogant asshole.

[TimothyC]

I'm failing to see your outrage. Who exactly cares if President Obama gave a bow to Emperor Akihito again? It was a photo op because someone in the White House staff decided it would be a good idea to show Obama is multiculture and respects Japanese culture. That's transparant enough. So why flip your wig over a publicity stunt? It's not like Obama is actually submitting to the Emperor of Japan or that anyone thinks he is. It's a publicity gesture.

It's outrage because it is a further example of the stupidity in the Obama administration when it comes to international protocol, after insulting the British Prime Minister, The Queen, and Poland. Honestly, someone should be fired for this.

[ray245]

I'm failing to see your outrage. Who exactly cares if President Obama gave a bow to Emperor Akihito again? It was a photo op because someone in the White House staff decided it would be a good idea to show Obama is multiculture and respects Japanese culture. That's transparant enough. So why flip your wig over a publicity stunt? It's not like Obama is actually submitting to the Emperor of Japan or that anyone thinks he is. It's a publicity gesture.

It's outrage because it is a further example of the stupidity in the Obama administration when it comes to international protocol, after insulting the British Prime Minister, The Queen, and Poland. Honestly, someone should be fired for this.

I don't see how has Obama pissed off people in those nations.

[Vaporous]

It's outrage because it is a further example of the stupidity in the Obama administration when it comes to international protocol, after insulting the British Prime Minister, The Queen, and Poland. Honestly, someone should be fired for this.[/quote]

In the case of the Queen, the breach of protocol actually seemed to go over pretty well.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I understand she liked that Ipod, did Obama get a PS3 for the kids on his visit to japan?

[Guardsman Bass]

I'm failing to see your outrage. Who exactly cares if President Obama gave a bow to Emperor Akihito again? It was a photo op because someone in the White House staff decided it would be a good idea to show Obama is multiculture and respects Japanese culture. That's transparant enough. So why flip your wig over a publicity stunt? It's not like Obama is actually submitting to the Emperor of Japan or that anyone thinks he is. It's a publicity gesture.

It's outrage because it is a further example of the stupidity in the Obama administration when it comes to international protocol, after insulting the British Prime Minister, The Queen, and Poland. Honestly, someone should be fired for this.

I don't see how has Obama pissed off people in those nations.

He's probably talking about that incident where Gordon Brown made a state visit, and Obama's people gave him a gift basket of DVDs that don't work in Great Britain (Brown gave him a rather unique pen, if I recall correctly). Or when Obama's people announced the cancellation of the missile defense system in Poland .. . on the 70th anniversary of the Soviet-Nazi carving up Poland between them.

While I think this is about a 0.5 on a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of issue importance, somebody probably should be fired in Obama's protocol department.

[Gil Hamilton]

It's outrage because it is a further example of the stupidity in the Obama administration when it comes to international protocol, after insulting the British Prime Minister, The Queen, and Poland. Honestly, someone should be fired for this.

I suppose Obama could show the same respect and deference Bush Senior showed the Japanese Prime Minister when he was president.

[Serafina]

As someone who lives in Korea and has seen a lot of bowing, it does look like the emperor is at least ducking his head in response to Obama's bow. It's also been the case that whenever I bow deeply, such as when I meet the parent of a student that I teach, the other person laughs a little and seems a little surprised that I would show that much deference and respect. It's not something expected of foreigners. My guess is that the emperor was surprised and at least ducked his head to acknowledge the admittedly awkward bow.

The actual act of bowing isn't something that people should get all bent out of shape over. It's very much a part of the culture and it's how people greet each other. It's the way that Obama does it, in grandiose fashion, while also shaking the emperor's hand, that irks me. It also sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the other heads of state, which I don't consider a good thing publicity-wise. It makes it seem like all that much more of a publicity stunt rather than an acknowledgement to the culture.

That said, I have no problems with Obama bowing to the emperor. I'd rather have a respectful gentleman in the White House than an arrogant asshole.

Pretty likely - we don't see him bowing much to other heads of state much, either (See TimothyCs post on page one).
Perhaphs he (the emperor) is just too old to do it properly?

Regardless of the reasons, at worst it is a minor breach of protocol - he was not rude or anything. Really, even if someone (else than the funditards) regards it as a "gesture of deterrence" - complain when he actually deters with actions to another nation, not with gestures.

[NecronLord]

Defer, as in 'Defer, defer, to the Lord High Excecutioner!' not Deter. Deter is to put someone off and make them think better of attacking you as in 'nuclear deterrant' while deferance is submission.

I for one think Obama looks submissive before Akahito there, and that that bow is a silly idea. He should stand ramrod straight - if fucking Cheney can manage it, so should Obama.

[PeZook]

The odd thing is that this sort of thing is always arranged beforehand, though Akihito probably expected something less over-the-top. I agree it looked awkward and certainly...how to say this...non-stately, but it's also a complete non-issue. He looks goofy on a photo, ohmygod, the terrorists win

Should we even mention Bush Junior pushing on a locked door?

And yeah, Obama's protocol guys made some bad calls. Ceremony of the anniversary of WWII is one thing (everybody sent heads of state or heads of government, the US sent a...former mid-ranking official), but then we get things like Biden confusing Poland's prime minister with the president, or the aforementioned blunders in Britain.

Though some people have expressed an opinion that it's all deliberate in order to make America look harmless. I doubt it, personally, since there's better ways to go about it.

[Slacker]

Aren't the President and Prime Minister of Poland brothers? Or was that the old Prime Minister? Or am I mis-remembering their top chairs again? If they are brothers, I can at least understand the confusion.

[TimothyC]

Should we even mention Bush Junior pushing on a locked door?

Only If I get to mention the episode where President Obama tried to go in a non-door. Be honest, which is worse, trying to open a locked door while at a conference in a foreign land, or not knowing how to get into your own office.

If a republican had taken as deep a bow to a foreign monarch, I would be calling for someone to be fired, just like I am here. It's doubly worse because President Obama's administration keeps screwing up foreign policy.

[ray245]

Should we even mention Bush Junior pushing on a locked door?

Only If I get to mention the episode where President Obama tried to go in a non-door. Be honest, which is worse, trying to open a locked door while at a conference in a foreign land, or not knowing how to get into your own office.

If a republican had taken as deep a bow to a foreign monarch, I would be calling for someone to be fired, just like I am here. It's doubly worse because President Obama's administration keeps screwing up foreign policy.

Did he really screw up US foreign policy to the same extend as Bush? The only who seems to say that tends to be Americans rather than people around the world.

[Johonebesus]

Should we even mention Bush Junior pushing on a locked door?

Only If I get to mention the episode where President Obama tried to go in a non-door. Be honest, which is worse, trying to open a locked door while at a conference in a foreign land, or not knowing how to get into your own office.

If a republican had taken as deep a bow to a foreign monarch, I would be calling for someone to be fired, just like I am here. It's doubly worse because President Obama's administration keeps screwing up foreign policy.

There's a huge difference between policy and etiquette. It does annoy me that the administration makes little mistakes in symbolic gestures, but that's nothing compared to trashing the nation's international standing and causing even traditional allies to distance themselves from us.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Should we even mention Bush Junior pushing on a locked door?

Only If I get to mention the episode where President Obama tried to go in a non-door. Be honest, which is worse, trying to open a locked door while at a conference in a foreign land, or not knowing how to get into your own office.

If a republican had taken as deep a bow to a foreign monarch, I would be calling for someone to be fired, just like I am here. It's doubly worse because President Obama's administration keeps screwing up foreign policy.

I never heard about Obama trying to go through a door that wasn't there, was this something that was caught on camera? Bush tried to leave through a locked door in the middle of a press conference, he was doing so because he didn't want to answer certain questions the participants were asking. Most of the humour from the situation comes from the fact that he made an idiot of himself while trying to flee. I need to know the context behind the Obama gaffe before we can judge which is worse.

Why does someone need to be fired over this? We're not dealing with a volatile situation where actions and etiquette must be precise to avoid a misunderstanding blowing up into open warfare, we're dealing with a slight over-eager application of formalities and millions of conservitards screaming a hissy-fit over it because they actually have nothing more substantial to try and tar the president with.

[hongi]

Yes, Obama hasn't bowed properly. So what? Yes, Obama bowed. So what?

[Spyder]

Obama bows to Japanese Emperor, nationalist rage ensues.
Obama uses incorrect technique, nerd rage ensues.

[Civil War Man]

Watching the video of the meeting, the bow took about all of half a second. Honestly, it's not like he was grovelling and licking the Emperor's shoes. How many news outlets have shown the video, instead of just showing the one frame where he is at the lowest point in the bow?

[Coyote]

It's outrage because it is a further example of the stupidity in the Obama administration when it comes to international protocol, after insulting the British Prime Minister, The Queen, and Poland. Honestly, someone should be fired for this.

I suppose Obama could show the same respect and deference Bush Senior showed the Japanese Prime Minister when he was president.

Barfing in his lap?

[stormthebeaches]

It would be nice if someone would explain how Obama pissed off Gordon Brown and the Queen. Seriously, I haven't heard about that. What did he do? As for Poland. The majority of the Polish people don't want the missile shield so I am unsure how exactly Obama pissed off Poland.

[PeZook]

It would be nice if someone would explain how Obama pissed off Gordon Brown and the Queen. Seriously, I haven't heard about that. What did he do? As for Poland. The majority of the Polish people don't want the missile shield so I am unsure how exactly Obama pissed off Poland.

"Pissing off" or "betraying" Poland was entirely an invention of the right-wing pundits. The government was somewhat disheartened, yeah, but Obama immediatelly followed up with some generous overtures, like deciding they'd still go through with stationing a patriot battery in Poland anyway. Right now, we've been offered a completely new SM-3 based ABM system. We're satisfied, Russia seems (somewhat) satisfied, no harm done.

What I was referring to were small blunders WRT protocol and such, which are kind of foolish, but not a major problem.

Aren't the President and Prime Minister of Poland brothers? Or was that the old Prime Minister? Or am I mis-remembering their top chairs again? If they are brothers, I can at least understand the confusion.

No. It used to be like that, but there was an election along the way

It's even funnier because Biden commented that "meetings between good friends tend to take time" when questioned about him speaking to the President, then in his speech later on kept thanking the Prime Minister for something while referring to him as "Mr President"...several times.

You can see why it's kind of funny...