On Manned Turrets

[jollyreaper]

I have heard from many EU sources that AI just isn't as good in combat as a biological operator. This seem to be a good enough explanation on why they don't use auto turrents

That would really be a good explanation for trained Jedi vs. droids. Jedi can see into the future and predict an opponent's next action, something droids simply cannot do. Against a bog-standard human they'd be fast enough but they can't be faster than precognition.

If everybody operated under a certain level of latent force sensitivity, this could explain the natural superiority of organics versus machines. But they don't so machines should win out.

We know the real explanation for why we see manned guns -- they were emulating WWII combat footage. And even after we developed automated guns for warships we know the artistic reason to keep humans in there. But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why do we never see the equivalent of cruise missiles in the Star Wars universe? If they have sufficient tech to make droids then they should have sufficient tech to make good cruise missiles. In real life the realization was that firing a bunch of missiles with individually low probabilities of hitting against well-defended targets was preferable to sending highly-trained combat pilots into that same meat grinder. Conventional attack against well-defended targets is suicide.

[Bakustra]

I have heard from many EU sources that AI just isn't as good in combat as a biological operator. This seem to be a good enough explanation on why they don't use auto turrents

That would really be a good explanation for trained Jedi vs. droids. Jedi can see into the future and predict an opponent's next action, something droids simply cannot do. Against a bog-standard human they'd be fast enough but they can't be faster than precognition.

If everybody operated under a certain level of latent force sensitivity, this could explain the natural superiority of organics versus machines. But they don't so machines should win out.

We know the real explanation for why we see manned guns -- they were emulating WWII combat footage. And even after we developed automated guns for warships we know the artistic reason to keep humans in there. But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why do we never see the equivalent of cruise missiles in the Star Wars universe? If they have sufficient tech to make droids then they should have sufficient tech to make good cruise missiles. In real life the realization was that firing a bunch of missiles with individually low probabilities of hitting against well-defended targets was preferable to sending highly-trained combat pilots into that same meat grinder. Conventional attack against well-defended targets is suicide.

How do you know that people don't all operate under a certain level of Force-sensitivity? The presence of Force-blind species such as the Ssi-Ruuk or Yuuzhan Vong show that everybody normally has a connection to the force. The description of midi-chlorians as universal to life and related to the Force say that everything is connected to the Force. Every philosopher upon the Force speaks of its universality. This is a common Star Wars-related meme, but it's not really supported by the films or the EU.

[jollyreaper]

I make the assumption because non-jedi are portrayed as pretty much like us. If we consider force=magic, there are fantasy setting where wizards are rare and the only magic users and there are settings where magic is an everyday thing with housewives using minor spells of preserving when canning vegetables and the men using healing spells on the livestock ranging all the way up the scale to the usual wizards and nasties. There's no indication that the Force is a part of everyone's life, even though everyone contributes with a bit of their life energy. It's probably no different from breathing -- I'm taking part in the carbon cycle without being aware of it and even when I do become aware, it's not like I suddenly have mad powerz. Luke can tell Han about the Force but if he doesn't have the knack, he's not getting anywhere. I hate the midichlorian explanation and much prefer it to something like higher math -- anyone could learn it, theoretically, but very few will be any good at it. I hate the Force being a genetic birthright thing.

[Bakustra]

I make the assumption because non-jedi are portrayed as pretty much like us. If we consider force=magic, there are fantasy setting where wizards are rare and the only magic users and there are settings where magic is an everyday thing with housewives using minor spells of preserving when canning vegetables and the men using healing spells on the livestock ranging all the way up the scale to the usual wizards and nasties. There's no indication that the Force is a part of everyone's life, even though everyone contributes with a bit of their life energy. It's probably no different from breathing -- I'm taking part in the carbon cycle without being aware of it and even when I do become aware, it's not like I suddenly have mad powerz. Luke can tell Han about the Force but if he doesn't have the knack, he's not getting anywhere. I hate the midichlorian explanation and much prefer it to something like higher math -- anyone could learn it, theoretically, but very few will be any good at it. I hate the Force being a genetic birthright thing.

How do you know? Without training, somebody strong in the force merely has excellent reflexes. Consider that Leia didn't appear to have any supernatural abilities, and yet Yoda and Obi-Wan considered her their second hope. The same for Luke, at least overtly. Meanwhile, every description of the Force indicates that it is universal and everything is connected to it. When midichlorians rear their pseudopoda, Qui-Gon says that everybody has them. There's really nothing that outright says that only a few people can draw upon the Force. People assume it because there are so few Jedi, but on the other hand, the Jedi probably only take the best. It's quite possible that Han could, if trained, be able to use the Force on a limited basis. But his strength/sensitivity might well limit him to small-scale stuff. Note that Vader says "the Force is strong with this one" not "this can call upon the Force".

If you don't like the genetic theory, then discard it! It's never explicit, and poorly implied anyways. I see no reason to hold onto it, when there are alternative theories like this one or the "will of the Force" model.

[Adam Reynolds]

How do you know? Without training, somebody strong in the force merely has excellent reflexes. Consider that Leia didn't appear to have any supernatural abilities, and yet Yoda and Obi-Wan considered her their second hope. The same for Luke, at least overtly. Meanwhile, every description of the Force indicates that it is universal and everything is connected to it. When midichlorians rear their pseudopoda, Qui-Gon says that everybody has them. There's really nothing that outright says that only a few people can draw upon the Force. People assume it because there are so few Jedi, but on the other hand, the Jedi probably only take the best. It's quite possible that Han could, if trained, be able to use the Force on a limited basis. But his strength/sensitivity might well limit him to small-scale stuff. Note that Vader says "the Force is strong with this one" not "this can call upon the Force".

This fits with the character of Scout from the novel Dark Rendezvous. She was rather weak in her force abilities and only became a Jedi by the fluke of having been chosen despite her weakness and her raw determination that impressed Yoda.

If you don't like the genetic theory, then discard it! It's never explicit, and poorly implied anyways. I see no reason to hold onto it, when there are alternative theories like this one or the "will of the Force" model.

The primary evidence for the genetic theory is that most children of Force sensitives seem to inherit this trait. There is even the Halcyon line that is weak in Telekinesis. Are there any cases of children of Force sensitives without Force sensitivity?

[Cykeisme]

If Force sensitivity was genetic and/or a guaranteed hereditary trait, virtually every species evolving on every planet in the galaxy would consist almost solely of Force sensitives due to much better handling of selective pressures.

[Metahive]

Well, or it might result in ostracization and persecution due to envy and/or fear, limiting the spread of "force-genes".

[SeaTrooper]

Well, or it might result in ostracization and persecution due to envy and/or fear, limiting the spread of "force-genes".

Which would have to be universal, or we would be seeing many more worlds with populations made up entirely of sensitives. Actually, that might even describe Corellia to some degree.

The point being made is that Force sensitivity, with or without Jedi training, provides such a marked advantage that it would simply have to spread among an isolated population. We're not talking about the high-end Force powers, but simply heightened reflexes, unconscious precognition and the apparent personal health benefits of having some access to the Force. At the very least, I would expect sensitives to suffer fewer serious accidents, and remain a viable breeding member of that population for far longer than individuals lacking that extra advantage. The result, even over so biologically brief a period as 20,000 years, should be that everyone has at least some degree of sensivity to the Force.

[SeaTrooper]

I have heard from many EU sources that AI just isn't as good in combat as a biological operator. This seem to be a good enough explanation on why they don't use auto turrents

That would really be a good explanation for trained Jedi vs. droids. Jedi can see into the future and predict an opponent's next action, something droids simply cannot do. Against a bog-standard human they'd be fast enough but they can't be faster than precognition.

If everybody operated under a certain level of latent force sensitivity, this could explain the natural superiority of organics versus machines. But they don't so machines should win out.

That sounds like a damn fine idea for some fanfic! SW troopers and jacktars (Imp or Rebel) kicking the stuffing out of PJ-clad redshirts, and the trekkies unable to work out how.