jollyreaper wrote:
There are plenty of examples in history of flawed designs leading to the destruction of major weapons or structures. Flagship for I think the French that rolled over on launch due to having too many cannons and dooddads up top
If you mean the British Mary Rose, she sank because she was one of the first of an entirely new era of warship design, was overloaded with armored men (not a design flaw) had been modified by the Kings Orders from her original design and was sailing with gunports open to impress the king in weather when she should not have done so. She was also simply built in an era before designers could
not make scientific stability calculations, making it fairly amazing that anyone could design warships at all. If the Death Star was the first armored warship the Empire had ever built then this would be understandable but as we in fact see they have been building colossal armored ships and using them in combat in the Empire and before the Empire for a long time.
In fact the Death Star was designed and built right after a major war, which would have provide a colossal trove of empirical research data which would show exactly what is destroying ships and which would highlight small dangerous like poorly designed hatches or ineffective armor gratings. Ships designed and built after WW1 had way better survivability features then those built before it, the same is true of WW2 and we’ve learned a fair bit since then too. Since we don’t see much naval combat anymore we just routinely blow up our own ships to study them instead, and to validate computer models of survivability.
By the time you get to the year 10 million or however long it would take to reach Star Wars level development and you have sentient/near sentient computers to remind you of details you just have no damn excuse for such a glaring and easily corrected vulnerability.
the theory of the battle-cruiser proven unsound in actual combat in WWII
Not a design flaw, the British ships blew up because of bad ammo and more importantly unsafe loading practices based on revised orders issued during the war. They did not blow up because someone left a completely unarmored hole the enemy could attack that led right to a critical piece of equipment.
, the debate between the Brits and Americans over the need for armored vs. unarmored carrier decks
No design flaws or glaring stupidity was involved with that, nor did any of the carriers involved ever actually sink in action. It’s merely a difference of priorities in treaty limited ships. The unarmored deck was proven decisively superior in action though, but only when you had a decent supply of aircraft to put on top of it. The RN didn’t thanks to the RAF controlling its aircraft supply nor did it believe fighters could be an effective defense which was true in 1937, but not 1942. Both types of ships had armoring and especially armored the magazines and AVGAS supply.
, the Sherman being a piece of absolute shit for a tank
No. I’m not even going to waste time explaining why that is just stupid. We’ve had more then enough Sherman threads before. Suffice to say the Sherman is one of the best tanks around for its weight.
, American air-to-air missiles in the early days of Vietnam being next to useless
And guns would have been totally useless against supersonic bombers (literally, the bomber flies as fast as the bullets do… not good), which were the designed target of those air to air missiles, not small enemy fighters fought under insane ROE. Without those crazy ROE bombers would have just flattened the MiG airfields and made the 1:1 kill ratio moot.
Anyway the missiles did fundamentally work, they just had reliability problems, it’s not like someone designed a missile which didn’t have a fuse or guidance fins.
The Death Star flaw is like building a superhardened ICBM silo, and then putting a plate glass window in the roof.
, the Army's early M-16's being plastic pieces of shit that killed more Americans than VC's, etc. Screwups can happen.
The M16 was bad; this was also because the M16 was allowed to bypass a lot of the normal design and procurement process because it was viewed as being ‘off the shelf’. This is most markedly not the case for the Death Star.
And there are examples of flawed designs that get approved due to politics, engineers know damn well in advance what the vulnerabilities are and yet nothing is done until a disaster happens and the engineer says told'ja so. Another classic example would be the shitty watertight bow doors on auto ferries. We've had a number of sinkings due to design flaws with the way the doors latch. Fixing them hasn't been a priority.
Funny enough militaries abandon LSTs, aside from the safety hating Russians, specifically because bow doors are so troublesome in high speed designs. The low speed LSTs of WW2 were incredibly resilient ships in contrast. Vulnerabilities tend to be a result of complex interactions anyway, not just because someone left a damn gaping hole in the ship.
There's also the matter of the lucky shot. Historically we've had examples like the Bismarck getting whacked on the rudder by an obsolete biplane, kings and generals killed by lucky shots through the eye slits of their helmets, and so forth.
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Okay sure, but this is why warship designers went to considerable trouble not to provide opportunities for golden BBs, and unlike a helmet you have the weight and space to avoid nasty compromises. The rudder of a warship was simply an innate vulnerability, you couldn’t do anything about it, but in for example Bismarck’s case it wouldn’t have mattered nearly as much if a battleship was used as part of a fleet and not as a lone raider. Sinking merchant ships is not a rational use of battleships but this is a failure of Nazi doctrine not the design of Bismarck, which was abysmal overall. But even such an abysmal design created by designers with no references (the British burned everything after WW1) did remember armor the steering motors like other warships did. The flaw on the Death Star is akin to having not provided that armor at all and then having a 4.7in shell from a destroyer knock it out.
The Death Star makes life all the easier because the station is so massive, its internal volume goes up far quicker then the surface area, which means a minimization of the armor penetrations compared to the total design effort. Proportionally the bigger the ship, the easier it is to protect. A straight shaft to the reactor is just completely retarded. Modern battleships had to protect larger openings while being smaller ships and did so quite well at it. Like I said all they needed was a grating or a bend. Its just stupid, movies are made out of stupidity most of the time.