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Stormin wrote:I'm tempted to give this a shot. Hopefully I won't be too underpowered even though I only have the 3.5 players handbook and the Arms and Equipment guide (3.0). I don't know much at all about Eberron so if I played a cleric would there be any problem with me being affiliated with a saint that has nothing to do with the major religions?

I'm thinking great-sword user built towards melee combat, buffing and healing in that order so probably War and Protection domains. Lawful Neutral and human.

From what I recall on Ebberons faith system you worshiping a saint should work fine.
I decided to go with a Binder, as I don't think truenamer would work at this level.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.p ... tid=207081

Im not really decided on stats or anything, and I haven't chosen a race or bought equipment.
Though I will have ranks in intimidate and Practiced Binder

My character can be ready when I get the starting gold ruling from Norade so that I know how I should buy equipment. My kobold shall sing songs about how awesome it is to be a dragon and how dragons are so dragon-y and cool. He shall inspire the party to be more like dragons (Aka lazy, greedy, treasure-hording jackasses). Don't expect me to carry anything though. I have a mighty 9.75 lbs. light load!

For starting gold you can roll for yourself, I'm not going to worry about people cheating for a few dozen extra gold pieces.

Also, one thing I didn't mention yet, as a house rule there are no cross class skills. If you can justify your character having a skill he can have it. I know it can be broken, but as DM I will rain hell down on min-maxed power gamers in this campaign.

Also, it's going to be a two party game and it's looking as if we'll have 10 players interested at this point. So when everybody has an idea of what they want to play make a post so I can start looking at building 2 roughly equal parties.

Well I need to get some sleep now. Here's what I got done so far.


http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.p ... tid=223783

Since you sound unfamiliar with 3.5 Stormin would you mind my quick input on your char?

Despite their D8 hit dice the Cleric has trouble going toe to toe with a lot of melee monsters in attrition warfare. This is especially hampered by the 3/4 BAB advancement, meaning after a couple of levels it is generally much easier for them to hit you than you to hit them, and they will have more HP and higher Str bonuses. Thus the cleric is much better in an off-tank role, standing close-ish to the BSF (Big stupid fighter) to prevent flanking, break charge lines and drop cures on him mid-battle. As such, sword and board tends to be pretty good until you get 4th level spells and can just divine power yourself into a big badass fighter. Since you are using a saint for your god, you could choose to give him favored weapon of Warmace from Complete warrior. It is a two-handed martial weapon that can be used 1 handed if you have exotic weapon proficiency for it. It give -1 AC but it does d12 damage. Since you are human you have free feats to use so that you can 1 hand it and take a heavy shield which nets you +1 AC overall and lets you hit like a ton of bricks while still having good defense. The Warmace is only 25gp and a heavy wooden shield is 7gp so it should be well within budget. Besides, you are a warrior of god, it is only right and holy that you beat shit with a giant cudgel. If you need to hit harder it is only a move action to drop or pick up the heavy shield so you can still use the warmace two-handed if you need the 1.5 Str.

Speaking of Str you can cast spells to enhance it. It would probably be better to switch the 16 to Con and the 14 to Str. Con is simply a more important stat because it helps you not die. You are the Cleric, when you want to kill things you have spells so you can hulk out. You don't need to rely on your base stats as much as a fighter or a barb so take the better stat. Con not only would give you +1 HP at every level but better Fort saves, and let you hold your breath longer (as you are a cleric and not a witch you instantly sink in any water deeper than a puddle).

Skills, max concentration. You are going to have to cast spells defensively and you need to nail that conc. check. Screw swim. You take armour check penalties to it that are so bad that you will never actually be able to swim anyways. If you fall in the water (in the desert?) just hold your breath and someone will fish you out eventually, or you can just zombie it out and walk across the bottom until you reach dry land again. Eventually you get freedom of movement and you laugh heartily as water is a bitch to your divine might.

Just some quick thoughts. All will make your character more powerful, but how powerful you want him to be is entirely your decision. If you want him to be utterly badass, I can provide you some even better things to do, but they would require some major restructuring and I am loathe to tell someone to remake their whole character to squeeze out a bit more juice. You seem to have a decent hang of it anyways and he'll probably work fine as is.

Dark Hellion wrote:Since you sound unfamiliar with 3.5 Stormin would you mind my quick input on your char?

Despite their D8 hit dice the Cleric has trouble going toe to toe with a lot of melee monsters in attrition warfare. This is especially hampered by the 3/4 BAB advancement, meaning after a couple of levels it is generally much easier for them to hit you than you to hit them, and they will have more HP and higher Str bonuses. Thus the cleric is much better in an off-tank role, standing close-ish to the BSF (Big stupid fighter) to prevent flanking, break charge lines and drop cures on him mid-battle. As such, sword and board tends to be pretty good until you get 4th level spells and can just divine power yourself into a big badass fighter. Since you are using a saint for your god, you could choose to give him favored weapon of Warmace from Complete warrior. It is a two-handed martial weapon that can be used 1 handed if you have exotic weapon proficiency for it. It give -1 AC but it does d12 damage. Since you are human you have free feats to use so that you can 1 hand it and take a heavy shield which nets you +1 AC overall and lets you hit like a ton of bricks while still having good defense. The Warmace is only 25gp and a heavy wooden shield is 7gp so it should be well within budget. Besides, you are a warrior of god, it is only right and holy that you beat shit with a giant cudgel. If you need to hit harder it is only a move action to drop or pick up the heavy shield so you can still use the warmace two-handed if you need the 1.5 Str.

Speaking of Str you can cast spells to enhance it. It would probably be better to switch the 16 to Con and the 14 to Str. Con is simply a more important stat because it helps you not die. You are the Cleric, when you want to kill things you have spells so you can hulk out. You don't need to rely on your base stats as much as a fighter or a barb so take the better stat. Con not only would give you +1 HP at every level but better Fort saves, and let you hold your breath longer (as you are a cleric and not a witch you instantly sink in any water deeper than a puddle).

Skills, max concentration. You are going to have to cast spells defensively and you need to nail that conc. check. Screw swim. You take armour check penalties to it that are so bad that you will never actually be able to swim anyways. If you fall in the water (in the desert?) just hold your breath and someone will fish you out eventually, or you can just zombie it out and walk across the bottom until you reach dry land again. Eventually you get freedom of movement and you laugh heartily as water is a bitch to your divine might.

Just some quick thoughts. All will make your character more powerful, but how powerful you want him to be is entirely your decision. If you want him to be utterly badass, I can provide you some even better things to do, but they would require some major restructuring and I am loathe to tell someone to remake their whole character to squeeze out a bit more juice. You seem to have a decent hang of it anyways and he'll probably work fine as is.

Please, don't help him make a CoD. I'm having enough trouble convincing a player to not play a Halfling Barbarian and the power gulf between a well build Cleric and something like that makes my head hurt.

I really hate CoD-zillas too. I am just not a fan of DMM in general. Its a feat that was clearly poorly written. Plus it is depended on certain rules intricacies that are hard to fathom if you don't have access to dozens of books.

I was more thinking he could do things like go Cloistered Cleric and trade the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion for the bonus damage, skills and pseudo-bardic knowledge. Or get a domain like Pride for the better domain ability and spells. But I would rather see his dude than what I would build in his shoes. People tend to build in certain specific fashions and how these builds interact is way more interesting than one person making the party. I just wanted to give him a few quick tips since he seemed worried about the power level and those were quick things he could do to be a little more powerful and still have the same flavour.

Dark Hellion wrote:I really hate CoD-zillas too. I am just not a fan of DMM in general. Its a feat that was clearly poorly written. Plus it is depended on certain rules intricacies that are hard to fathom if you don't have access to dozens of books.

I was more thinking he could do things like go Cloistered Cleric and trade the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion for the bonus damage, skills and pseudo-bardic knowledge. Or get a domain like Pride for the better domain ability and spells. But I would rather see his dude than what I would build in his shoes. People tend to build in certain specific fashions and how these builds interact is way more interesting than one person making the party. I just wanted to give him a few quick tips since he seemed worried about the power level and those were quick things he could do to be a little more powerful and still have the same flavour.

That works, I just know where talk of Clerics tends to lead and I wanted to nip that in the bud.

Hell, he could just build a druid. Then you only need 1 feat to break the game. And its in the PHB!

Dark Hellion wrote:Hell, he could just build a druid. Then you only need 1 feat to break the game. And its in the PHB!

I'm sorry, but my campaign uses that awesome PHB2 optional class feature required nerf, for druids.

Quick question. Are you ok with a starting stat above 18? Some DMs are fine if you are working for it, others don't like it.

Dark Hellion wrote:Quick question. Are you ok with a starting stat above 18? Some DMs are fine if you are working for it, others don't like it.

You can't buy past 18, but if say a half-ork bought to 18 strength for a starting score of 20 go ahead. I am wary of the elf for every stat caster builds though.

Another few house rules to mention.

1. If you want something that just doesn't quite seem to work with the rules ask me, and I'll make it fit if I don't think it's broken.

2. You get weapon finesse for free at 1st level if your dex exceeds your strength. It doesn't make sense for a weak gimp with quick reflexes to swing a rapier like a club and stab like he needs to punch through a brick wall.

3. Build for fun first and if we need to tweak power later we can. Not a so much a rule, but a guideline.

Ok, cool. I just am going to have 20 Cha after adjustments so I wanted to make sure it was ok.

I think I am going for a William McGonagall flair in my Rping. He sings songs with terrible, clunky lyrics but does so with heart and passion that inspire his allies. Or at least make them want to kill the enemy as fast as possible so he'll stop singing. He will insist his lyrics are excellent if sung in the original Draconic.

Dark Hellion wrote:Ok, cool. I just am going to have 20 Cha after adjustments so I wanted to make sure it was ok.

I think I am going for a William McGonagall flair in my Rping. He sings songs with terrible, clunky lyrics but does so with heart and passion that inspire his allies. Or at least make them want to kill the enemy as fast as possible so he'll stop singing. He will insist his lyrics are excellent if sung in the original Draconic.

Hmm, will you be preforming the doom song as done by Deekin in Neverwinter Knights?

I'd like to play a Human Swordsage please.
Specifically, cause I'm lazy as all hell, I'll start with the Starting package from Tome of Battle
(Specifically, on page 18)

5 spare gold pieces

Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha - 10, 17, 10, 14, 17, 15

Skills:
Balance - 3
Concentrate - 3
I'd like to replace Intimidate with Diplomacy please. 4
Jump 3
Martial Lore 3
Ride 2
Sense Motive 4
Tumble 4

Reason for Diplomacy instead of Intimidate - I want to play him as a 'lover not a fighter' type. Instead of trying to bully down the noble, he'll instead slip off, and seduce several female members of his family as a method of revenge.
Then when the noble comes after him in a fit of rage, he'll deal with him in a fair duel.

If you don't want to allow Tome of Battle, a human rogue is just as fun

Solauren wrote:I'd like to play a Human Swordsage please.
Specifically, cause I'm lazy as all hell, I'll start with the Starting package from Tome of Battle
(Specifically, on page 18)

5 spare gold pieces

Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha - 10, 17, 10, 14, 17, 15

Skills:
Balance - 3
Concentrate - 3
I'd like to replace Intimidate with Diplomacy please. 4
Jump 3
Martial Lore 3
Ride 2
Sense Motive 4
Tumble 4

Reason for Diplomacy instead of Intimidate - I want to play him as a 'lover not a fighter' type. Instead of trying to bully down the noble, he'll instead slip off, and seduce several female members of his family as a method of revenge.
Then when the noble comes after him in a fit of rage, he'll deal with him in a fair duel.

If you don't want to allow Tome of Battle, a human rogue is just as fun

Looks good to me. Punch him into an online character sheet here and he should be good to go.

Hey if anyone is going to use diplomacy to boss people around its a proud dragon like me. Back in the days of my dragon ancestors we bossed millions... no, billions of people around! We made them construct temples that stretched all the way into the sky. But since humans are such lousy builders, unlike dragons, these temples crumbled to the ground. The dragons got so mad at humanity's shoddy workmanship that they all used their breath to raze the earth. This is why there are deserts and glaciers and why there are only a few million humans left alive. It all comes back to dragons you see. We were here first so we are the most important. This is why you have to do what we tell you. Which is why a dragon like me gets to use diplomacy and boss people around. Even your puny human intellect should be able to understand my impeccable dragon logic. Now give me your gold because you have had the honor of hearing about the true history of diplomacy in the world. My draconic prowess at storytelling probably even gave you some bonus ranks of knowledge (history). I definitely deserve the 5 gp left in your coffers to enhance my draconic horde!

Dark Hellion wrote:Hey if anyone is going to use diplomacy to boss people around its a proud dragon like me. Back in the days of my dragon ancestors we bossed millions... no, billions of people around! We made them construct temples that stretched all the way into the sky. But since humans are such lousy builders, unlike dragons, these temples crumbled to the ground. The dragons got so mad at humanity's shoddy workmanship that they all used their breath to raze the earth. This is why there are deserts and glaciers and why there are only a few million humans left alive. It all comes back to dragons you see. We were here first so we are the most important. This is why you have to do what we tell you. Which is why a dragon like me gets to use diplomacy and boss people around. Even your puny human intellect should be able to understand my impeccable dragon logic. Now give me your gold because you have had the honor of hearing about the true history of diplomacy in the world. My draconic prowess at storytelling probably even gave you some bonus ranks of knowledge (history). I definitely deserve the 5 gp left in your coffers to enhance my draconic horde!

I get the feeling your kobold will be a campaign favorite.

Dark Hellion wrote:Since you sound unfamiliar with 3.5 Stormin would you mind my quick input on your char?

Advice is always welcome, I may not take it but it is welcome.

Despite their D8 hit dice the Cleric has trouble going toe to toe with a lot of melee monsters in attrition warfare. This is especially hampered by the 3/4 BAB advancement, meaning after a couple of levels it is generally much easier for them to hit you than you to hit them, and they will have more HP and higher Str bonuses. Thus the cleric is much better in an off-tank role, standing close-ish to the BSF (Big stupid fighter) to prevent flanking, break charge lines and drop cures on him mid-battle.

Pretty much what I was planning.

As such, sword and board tends to be pretty good until you get 4th level spells and can just divine power yourself into a big badass fighter. Since you are using a saint for your god, you could choose to give him favored weapon of Warmace from Complete warrior. It is a two-handed martial weapon that can be used 1 handed if you have exotic weapon proficiency for it. It give -1 AC but it does d12 damage. Since you are human you have free feats to use so that you can 1 hand it and take a heavy shield which nets you +1 AC overall and lets you hit like a ton of bricks while still having good defense. The Warmace is only 25gp and a heavy wooden shield is 7gp so it should be well within budget. Besides, you are a warrior of god, it is only right and holy that you beat shit with a giant cudgel. If you need to hit harder it is only a move action to drop or pick up the heavy shield so you can still use the warmace two-handed if you need the 1.5 Str.

Eh, gonna keep the greatsword. It's something I'm carrying over from another story where Lord Black was a leader in a big war and eventually had a large following which was absorbed into one of the major churches to create the Martial order of the Black Priests. Here the origin will be a lot more humble but I'm going to try to keep as close as possible.

Speaking of Str you can cast spells to enhance it. It would probably be better to switch the 16 to Con and the 14 to Str. Con is simply a more important stat because it helps you not die. You are the Cleric, when you want to kill things you have spells so you can hulk out. You don't need to rely on your base stats as much as a fighter or a barb so take the better stat. Con not only would give you +1 HP at every level but better Fort saves, and let you hold your breath longer (as you are a cleric and not a witch you instantly sink in any water deeper than a puddle).

Agreed and done.

Skills, max concentration. You are going to have to cast spells defensively and you need to nail that conc. check. Screw swim. You take armour check penalties to it that are so bad that you will never actually be able to swim anyways. If you fall in the water (in the desert?) just hold your breath and someone will fish you out eventually, or you can just zombie it out and walk across the bottom until you reach dry land again. Eventually you get freedom of movement and you laugh heartily as water is a bitch to your divine might.

Agreed and done. I was considering the trip between the continents really and wanted to have a chance at surviving if I fell in the drink <shrug>

Just some quick thoughts. All will make your character more powerful, but how powerful you want him to be is entirely your decision. If you want him to be utterly badass, I can provide you some even better things to do, but they would require some major restructuring and I am loathe to tell someone to remake their whole character to squeeze out a bit more juice. You seem to have a decent hang of it anyways and he'll probably work fine as is.

Yeah, I'm not looking to be the guy in the gimp suit or the one who does everything while everyone else feels useless. Supposedly to get the super overpowered characters one usually needs the extra books I never bothered getting.


Edit: Heal is worthless after the first few levels right? When I played the groups never got out of the lowb zone where stuff like that was useless. I might drop that skill or lower it a fair bit for something more useful.

Yeah, heal tends to suck when you have curing available on demand.

Okay, i would generally like to play an arcane spellcaster.
I have not yet decided whether it will be a wizard, sorcerer or on anything else - i am currently digging trough sourcebooks to determine that. But i just wanted to let you know that.
Any suggestions which would be usefull to the group are, of course, welcome.

Serafina wrote:Okay, i would generally like to play an arcane spellcaster.
I have not yet decided whether it will be a wizard, sorcerer or on anything else - i am currently digging trough sourcebooks to determine that. But i just wanted to let you know that.
Any suggestions which would be usefull to the group are, of course, welcome.

That works, Arcane magic is always useful.

As for what, build what you want and I'll sort the parties.

Pallas Kallisto a faun Spellthief. Why one of the fey is wandering around the rather barren Valenar is a shallow mystery. Mischief is the most likely reason. The fickle attention that is characteristic of more powerful fey has been off putting to most anyone who has meet Kallisto.