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Starglider wrote: 5 was awesome. It was significantly easier to suspend disbelief when it felt like you were leading a squadron of badass pilots rather than being a lone super-ace (which it did, even though you got something like 75% of the kills).

75% is not trying. When I replayed through AC5 on the PS3 I ended my career with a 20:1 kill ratio with all four wingmen put together. They're slow and useless. Both Pixy and especially Shamrock are much more aggressive and useful (Shamrock will even use ADMMs, the AC5 wingmen hardly use sp weapons at all).

Starglider wrote:The battlefield for Lit Fuse is larger than for Bunker Shot, and there are a lot more actual bunkers to take out.

There are more targets in each section of Operation Bunker Shot than in the whole of Lit Fuse. AC5 pays for it's high mission count by having much shorter, smaller scale missions. The only mission that approaches the size of the larger AC4 missions is Closure.

Vendetta wrote:I think the problem is they're running out of space for another war in the period they could use modern fighter jets in. I mean there were major global or continental conflicts in '95, 2000, 2010, 2015, and 2020.

Obviously this is their cue to remake Electrosphere goddamn.

That was obscene. I'd like to see a Cold War-era Ace Combat though. With YUKTOBANIA! Just say that name with a General Grievous voice!

Shroom Man 777 wrote:That was obscene. I'd like to see a Cold War-era Ace Combat though. With YUKTOBANIA! Just say that name with a General Grievous voice!

Yeah, pretty much the only other option Namco Bandai has with regards to Strangereal is to go further back in its history, long before the Belkan War. Some of the old standbys like the MiG-21, F-4, and F-5 would fit right in, as would the Draken and possibly the F-1 from Zero. There's a whole lot of stuff from the Cold War era to play with. For starters, instead of the Mirage 2000 and the MiG-31, you'd have the Mirage III and the MiG-25; other possible additions could include the MiG-17, MiG-19, MiG-23, the Century Series fighters, and the F-8 Crusader. Closest thing you'd get to a superplane in that time period would most likely be anachronistic Su-27s or Teen Series fighters, though; stuff like the Wyvern, Falken, and Nosferatu would obviously be right out.

At least it'd be better than putting Ace Combat in the real world. Joint Assault's story apparently involves mercenaries, an insurance company, and a flying battleship obviously more at home in Strangereal; I doubt Assault Horizon will be much better.

Ford Prefect wrote:

Vendetta wrote:I think the problem is they're running out of space for another war in the period they could use modern fighter jets in. I mean there were major global or continental conflicts in '95, 2000, 2010, 2015, and 2020.

Obviously this is their cue to remake Electrosphere goddamn.

No-one liked Electrosphere though. Being told at the end of the game "you suck and nothing you've done means anything" (and then being told the whole thing you've just experienced was a simulation, and by the way you're not real either) is a kick in the nuts for player identification.

There's a reason they've been so conspicuous with the individual hero pilot winning the whole damn war on his own since.

And that was the version that had a story. The translated version didnt (and was missing about half the missions).

Vendetta wrote:No-one liked Electrosphere though. Being told at the end of the game "you suck and nothing you've done means anything" (and then being told the whole thing you've just experienced was a simulation, and by the way you're not real either) is a kick in the nuts for player identification.

It's still their most interesting and involved game, and sold almost as well as AC2. Yeah, I know a lot of people thought the 'true ending' was pretty naff, but I think those people are daft.

Shinn Langley Soryu wrote:Yeah, pretty much the only other option Namco Bandai has with regards to Strangereal is to go further back in its history, long before the Belkan War. Some of the old standbys like the MiG-21, F-4, and F-5 would fit right in, as would the Draken and possibly the F-1 from Zero. There's a whole lot of stuff from the Cold War era to play with.

It is odd that gamers don't seem to go for time periods other than WW2 and current.

Closest thing you'd get to a superplane in that time period would most likely be anachronistic Su-27s or Teen Series fighters, though; stuff like the Wyvern, Falken, and Nosferatu would obviously be right out.

Au contraire, if you read any of Shep's posts you should know that the 60s was brimming with experimental and mock-up only superplanes. For example, AC 4, 5 and 6 all have operational B-70s, so no reason not to have the F-108 as a flyable superplane in a cold-war era game. More importantly, instead of silly super-lasers, railguns and macross-missile-massacre pods, the game breaker weapon could be an Air-2 Genie nuclear air-to-air rocket.

Fuck yeah Starglider, typical gamer interests are narrow as all hell, although I think developers share some of the blame. WWII and the modern era are simply well-tread territory and considered "safer." Actually talking to some other typical gamers though, I get this vibe that "modern = cool / more realistic."

Also: a superplane could be also be earlier proposals of the F-15 (the "F-X"), which would've had performance between the Mig-25 and SR-71 before the Fighter Mafia shrank it to short-legged Flanker-fodder. Going further forward, or backwards in time, there's a ton of other "Never were's" like some big F-14 upgrades that never happened thanks to the end of the Cold War, NATF (navalized F-22, where ATF = Advanced Tactical Fighter), profligate B-1A's. I also like the hand-drawn pic of that notional Soviet interceptor the size of a medium bomber meant to take out B-52's at cruise-missile range which Shep highlighted in HAB some months ago.


If Ace Combat's gonna be the real world... they almost have to go back a few years, introduce something and go with the divergence. How much story is there in "USAF and USN BUG SWARM show up and blow the fuck out of everything?" Personally, I would think it would be FUCKING AWESOME if they diverge from @ in ... 1980. Assassinate Reagan or something and have the Cold War go hot in 2010! 750 F-22's, dozens of B-2's, for shits and giggles, go with the F-32 JSF (it looks cooler) versus Mig. 1.44 swarms, Blackjacks galore and other niceties. But no, ain't gonna happen.

The plot won't be making any concessions to reality, it'll be the same old Ace Combat bobbins, except with real country names. And helicopters.

Starglider wrote:Au contraire, if you read any of Shep's posts you should know that the 60s was brimming with experimental and mock-up only superplanes. For example, AC 4, 5 and 6 all have operational B-70s, so no reason not to have the F-108 as a flyable superplane in a cold-war era game. More importantly, instead of silly super-lasers, railguns and macross-missile-massacre pods, the game breaker weapon could be an Air-2 Genie nuclear air-to-air rocket.

Fuck the AIR-2 and the F-108, the superplane needs to be an F-12B with AIM-47 Falcons. Taking out entire squadrons with one missile!

General Schatten wrote:the superplane needs to be an F-12B with AIM-47 Falcons.

The F-12 is flyable in HAWX. It isn't terribly useful because both games nerf the missile range to 5km or so for playability reasons (10km for the long range missiles), so you are reduced to making a fast pass, hoping you hit something, then spending ages turning around for another pass. Kind of amusing in online multiplayer, to hear the whiny F-22 fanboys bitching about how running away is unfair, but not much good for single player as your kills-per-minute is much lower compared to a plane that can dogfight properly. Still, it'd be nice to have it in AC if only for the inevitable missions where you have to rush all over the map intercepting things.

Starglider wrote:nerf the missile range to 5km or so for playability reasons (10km for the long range missiles)

So wait, they cut the F-12Bs AIM-47 down to 5% of it's effective range? That's retarded.

General Schatten wrote:So wait, they cut the F-12Bs AIM-47 down to 5% of it's effective range? That's retarded.

Um, no. Being able to kill everyone from the other side of the map would be retarded. If you don't like it, go play Falcon 4.0 : Allied Force. And have fun reading the 700 page manual.

Starglider wrote:

General Schatten wrote:So wait, they cut the F-12Bs AIM-47 down to 5% of it's effective range? That's retarded.

Um, no. Being able to kill everyone from the other side of the map would be retarded. If you don't like it, go play Falcon 4.0 : Allied Force. And have fun reading the 700 page manual.

What's the point of puttiing it in the game if it doesn't have it's characteristic abilities? Cruising at triple mach with extremely long range AAM are the characteristics of the F-12B. That'd be like putting a Tomcat into the game and not giving it Pheonix.

General Schatten wrote:What's the point of puttiing it in the game if it doesn't have it's characteristic abilities?

The general idea is to give planes relative abilities reflecting their real-world ranking, but compressed into the space of possible abilities that makes the gameplay work. Have you actually played Ace Combat or HAWX? No one buys these games for a realistic simulation of fighter combat. They're arcade games that use realistic graphics and real-world plane models to make things feel more plausible. 'Feel' being the operative word; clearly military nuts are going to need more suspension of disbelief when playing them than the average gamer.