'Something Is Wrong with the Structure of the Military'

[xt828]

Thanks to Siege and Thanas for that.

[Zaune]

The idea of reintroducing National Service in Britain gets bandied about from time to time, apparently because it would teach 'discipline' to our young people. I think its exponents might be a bit confused about cause and effect, because back when we still had National Service we also had a good apprenticeship system and plenty of skilled manual work, not to mention real collective bargaining ability.
Bring it back now and we'll just end up kicking a lot of disaffected young men out into whatever menial jobs they can find at a minimum wage that's about £20 a week better than the dole. Except that now they'll all be trained in weapons-handling and basic fire and movement.

Actually, when I put it like that I'm not sure it's such a bad idea...

[Marcus Aurelius]

The idea of reintroducing National Service in Britain gets bandied about from time to time, apparently because it would teach 'discipline' to our young people.

That is one of the arguments the proponents of conscription use here in Finland. Of course it is mostly bullshit. The real reason for keeping it is that with the budget allocated for training conscripts in Finland one could maintain a professional army only slightly larger than Luxembourg, and because of the very long border with Russia it may not not be a good idea to downsize the defense forces quite that much, at least not yet.

As for the UK, it would be quite funny if National Service was reintroduced now that nearly all other Western European countries have ended conscription. France, Spain, Poland, Sweden and Germany all used to have it only a decade ago. Currently only Austria, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Norway and Switzerland remain from European countries which were independent before the collapse of Soviet Union. From those at least Denmark and Norway use a highly selective system where the percentage of young men who are actually conscripted is somewhere around 50%.

[Thanas]

In Germany it still exists, but only about 25-30% of all potential recruits actually get drafted.

[Marcus Aurelius]

In Germany it still exists, but only about 25-30% of all potential recruits actually get drafted.

I thought the end of conscription was a done deal now that the CDU supports it. The impression I got from the articles was that it may require some political horse trading, but that would at worst only delay the transition to a professional army a little.

[Thanas]

yeah, but for the time being it still exists. No change has been made so far.

[folti78]

The idea of reintroducing National Service in Britain gets bandied about from time to time, apparently because it would teach 'discipline' to our young people. I think its exponents might be a bit confused about cause and effect, because back when we still had National Service we also had a good apprenticeship system and plenty of skilled manual work, not to mention real collective bargaining ability.

Ah, the "draft will teach 'em young 'uns discipline" argument touted around here by people who haven't seen the inside of an army base in the last 25+ years ... Or parroted by their young, who were either too young before conscription abolished in 2004 or weaseled out ...

Casting aside the cost of the making the idea work and it's effect on the society for the moment, it's arguable that if you need an organization to 'discipline' people in their late teens early 20s, then you'd be better take a long hard look on your educational system, than saddling your armed forces with a task totally out of their mission profile. Afterall most armed forces' mission is something like defending national sovereignty and interests, not being delinquent youth's correctional facility.

Not to mention that even military discipline broke down really fast if there were nobody there to enforce it.

Bring it back now and we'll just end up kicking a lot of disaffected young men out into whatever menial jobs they can find at a minimum wage that's about £20 a week better than the dole. Except that now they'll all be trained in weapons-handling and basic fire and movement.

Actually, when I put it like that I'm not sure it's such a bad idea...

Yep, and if you want your conscript forces to be somewhat effective, you have to sink money into it repeatedly, to train every new batch of conscripts, make and maintain the infrastructure for it and keep them occupied all the time, before they get the feeling that they are just sitting in the barracks doing nothing useful. The money that's probably keeping your more useful heavy assets up and running now ...

Also, during their service they can get their extra load of stress for relationship issues on top the standard load of being a conscript and locked into the base.