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Dalton wrote:Perinquus: Calm down.

I apologize, Dalton, if I have in any way "baited" him. I was merely trying to show both sides of this conflict. All anyone had read was that some woman saved a life and was fired from her job.

Kelly Antilles wrote:

salm wrote: interesting. saving someone´s life is "not a good reason".
the manager is a fucking asshole.

#1 - she was on a delivery

which is less important than a life, what the fuck?

#2 - she had someone else in the car

so, fucking what?

#3 - she lost him a sale

see #1

#4 - she lost him probably quite a bit of revenue concidering she was probably the only driver working.

see #1 + how do get to the conclusion that she was the only driver?

so you say:
restaurant´s money > life of some guy
ok, that´s something i didn´t know about you.

She never would have KNOWN anything was wrong if she hadn't been breaking rules in the FIRST place.

but she knew it, so she HAD to help.

She had an unauthorized person in the vehicle

where did you get that piece of information from?

who recieved word on his/her cell phone. Had she been smart, she would have made her delivery, called her boss and told him what was going on and I'm sure he would have been reasonable enough to let her go since it was in her neighborhood.

and while she makes the delivery the victim dies. great.

Kelly Antilles wrote: And I'm supposed to know this? Does your name or avatar reflect your job?

Ever think of looking at my profile before making such unwarranted assumptions? You'll find my profession listed there.

Kelly Antilles wrote: We don't know the whole story, actually. This may not have been the first time she's had someone else in the car. Then again, most people replying to this thread have been blinded by reading the woman saved a life that they don't see the consequences of her actions overall.

Immediately after the driver's performing a heroic action is not the wisest time to swing the ax. If nothing else, it makes the manager look like a cold-blooded asshole. Which, when the story gets out, may make people take their patronage to another business, and cost the franchise money - not smart business. And if her performance was that spotty, I'm sure he could find some pretext for firing her a few weeks down the line, when he could do so without looking like a villain.

And in any case. My issue here is also with other members of this board who express approval of firing her even for the lifesaving act itself. That is a symptom of having one's priorities rather seriously out of order.

I'm inclined to agree with Perinquus. The manager could be decent and not axe her, even considering the regulations that had to be followed.

Why don't you all just read the article again. ALL OF IT. Read over it carefully and take into concideration everything that is said, not just one or two things. Then make your decision.

Dalton wrote:Perinquus: Calm down.

Excuse me, but I tend to get rather worked up over the fact that somebody seriously considers selling a fucking pizza to be a more important consideration than saving a human life. Words simply do not express how much contempt I have for such a view. There is something wrong with you if you honestly think that.

Add to that the insulting and ignorant suggestion that I'm just some stupid, naive babe in the woods who hasn't got a clue how the real world works... Not only is that an ad hominem attack (can't argue the fact that that stance makes you look like a man with a seriously broken moral compass, so just dismiss your opponent as too dumb to know what he's talking about), it's just contemptibly, gratuitously insulting.

Perinquus wrote: Add to that the insulting and ignorant suggestion that I'm just some stupid, naive babe in the woods who hasn't got a clue how the real world works... Not only is that an ad hominem attack (can't argue the fact that that stance makes you look like a man with a seriously broken moral compass, so just dismiss your opponent as too dumb to know what he's talking about), it's just contemptibly, gratuitously insulting.

I do apologize for that, but in the midst of a debate, I don't tend to go look at someone's profile.

Kelly Antilles wrote:Why don't you all just read the article again. ALL OF IT. Read over it carefully and take into concideration everything that is said, not just one or two things. Then make your decision.

umm... ok, i just read it again, and now i´m even more convinced that the manager is a fucking dickhead.

Kelly Antilles wrote: She never would have KNOWN anything was wrong if she hadn't been breaking rules in the FIRST place. She had an unauthorized person in the vehicle who recieved word on his/her cell phone. Had she been smart, she would have made her delivery, called her boss and told him what was going on and I'm sure he would have been reasonable enough to let her go since it was in her neighborhood.

Oh FFS, yes she may have well been off task but would you really have driven by A DYING MAN to deliver some fucking pizza?? I think what she did was the decent thing, because if I'd seen that I would have stopped and helped. I mean you sound pretty cold hearted and if I ever got shot I'd be hoping to someone to stop and help me rather than worry about fucking food or company policy. I'm agaisnt your view on this one I'm afraid. Human life is more important than some fucking rules of a pizza place.

Can no one read that article without bias? She didn't know anyone was hurt. SHe should have done her job. Hell, if she hadn't gone by, someone else would have helped him.

Kelly Antilles wrote:Can no one read that article without bias? She didn't know anyone was hurt. SHe should have done her job. Hell, if she hadn't gone by, someone else would have helped him.

of course she knew. she heard that there was a shooting near the friend´s home. guess what. bulletts at high speed cause injuries. shootings infer bulletts at high speed.

as for the "someone else would have helped". do you remember that one thread about the guy at the gas satation who was shot? another guy kept filling his tank and took off, without giving a shit.

I am with Perinquus on this. Human life is more important then a freaking pizza sale. The manager could have fired her for having a rider, but he should have waited. Furthermore his reasoning for firing her alone is enough to piss me off. He litteraly stated that the life of someone is worth less then the sale of a pizza.

I agree with terminating her, partially for having someone other than a fellow employee in the car with her (that is, if her friend wasn't an employee).

But based on the lacking information in the article (fucking internet news...), the manager still sounds like a rather apathetic individual.

Peringuus, Kelly has already apologized for her remark. You were the one who wrote ".. fucking .." in Big Red All Caps. Call it even and continue the discussion in a more restrained tone.

Colonel Olrik wrote:Peringuus, Kelly has already apologized for her remark. You were the one who wrote ".. fucking .." in Big Red All Caps. Call it even and continue the discussion in a more restrained tone.

A little late aren't you.

But I will not apologize for a shocked and incredulous response to the suggestion that it was a higher priority for the driver to go sell a pizza than to administer lifesaving aid to another human being in dire need. If my language was strong it was because I consider that an appropriate response to the single most outrageous assertion that I have yet encountered on this board.

Alyeska wrote: Human life is more important then a freaking pizza sale.

That isn't the issue facing the pizza manager. For a pizza delivery person, delivering pizzas is more important than driving your friend around. Firing his employee had no affect on human life.

The manager could have fired her for having a rider, but he should have waited.

The manager should fire her for having a rider. Knowingly breaking the rules of your job/responsibilities is grounds for IMMEDIATE firing at ANY job I've ever worked. If I ever did this I'd be fired in a second, and could end up in prison.

He litteraly stated that the life of someone is worth less then the sale of a pizza.

Why do you interpret it this way? He said he doesn't pay people to be EMTs. ie. Drive around with a friend, and responding to calls for medical treatment. He's describing what happened, he can't continue to pay delinquent people just because they acted like an EMT in this situation. As his employee, she should have been driving alone and delivering the pizza.

This is a dilemma of her own making. Identify cause and effect:

She chose to drive a friend around while doing her job. The situation that was presented to her (the phone call), gave her these options:

(a) Ignore the call and hide the fact she broke the rules of her employment.
(b) Respond to the call and lose her job.

She chose option (b), which is the best choice for the bad situation that she put herself in by driving with a friend.

Some people think that she shouldn't take responsibility for her actions. People who think the responsibility should fall onto the Pizza manager, who has nothing to do with her driving her friend, nor anything to do with the shooting. They think the third option should be:

(c) Respond to the call, keep her job. The pizza manager is required to keep a delinquent employee.

The question is, why must the manager (who is not a cause of dilemma created by the woman) bear the "downfall" of her delinquent actions?

Perinquus wrote: A little late aren't you.

I just saw this.

But I will not apologize for a shocked and incredulous response to the suggestion that it was a higher priority for the driver to go sell a pizza than to administer lifesaving aid to another human being in dire need. If my language was strong it was because I consider that an appropriate response to the single most outrageous assertion that I have yet encountered on this board.

I'm not asking for you to apologize. Just to avoid insults and shouting. This thread is not worth it. Of course, this is not directed only at you.

Ok , first off, everything Ive said, is from the perspective I had to take when I was a member of management, and I might add I don't agree with one shit eating drop of it. There is a reason I quit and went back to school

Did this woman do the right thing, yes. Did her manager do the right thing, again,yes.

Why , as Im sure your all wondering.......

Because if he dosen't, guess who's ass is next on the block, his. His employee broke at least three major rules of the delivery businuess 1. no passengers, other than fellow, clocked in, employees or supervisiors 2. She was on a personal errand on company time, taking her friend home. 4. Upon hearing of a 'incident' ,on her passengers phone I might add, she then ventured further afield to investigate. 4. She, while in uniform, on the clock ,and displaying company signage no doubt, disregarded her responsibilities to the store and customers by assisting an injured man.

To the home office, or this managers regional supervisior, this is a serious problem, mainly from the stand point of potential litigation. They don't care one iota about that mans life, they worry about lawyers and court costs and potential settlements. If that were to happen , and I've seen this happen within Pizza Hut, and entire tier of management from Regional on down to the Resturant manager have been terminated because they allowed an hourly employee to screw up, did not terminate them, and it resultred in litigation.

And thats the reason why this woman who did the right and good thing lost her job. Corporate America is possibily the most souless entity in the universe, and thats why I wont do that kind of work ever again.

The manager isn't punishing her for saving a life, he's punishing her for deriliction of duty. She signed a damn contract to get the job, he has every right to terminate her upon breach of that contract.

The fact remains that yes, she may have done the right thing by providing aid to the gunshot victims, but the manager also did the right thing by obeying his duties. I don't know what kind of business you work at, Perinquus, but that's the way the rest of the world works. If you fail to do your duty, you face the penalties, regardless of how good a person you are.

If the driver had seen the gunshot victims on her way to the customer, with nobody else in the car, and had then stopped, I think it would be a different case. The way it is, she was already in a position prone to termination before she even knew about the gunshot victims. She got what she deserved.

Perinquus wrote:She lost him a sale?!? She lost him a sale?!?!

YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!

That is a reasonable justification for witholding lifesaving assistance? So you can make sure a fucking pizza parlor gets a few more lousy dollars? Better that extra ten bucks in the till than a human life saved?

Irrelevant. The question is not whether she did the right thing by saving a life.

If you're working as a security guard and you protect some woman by fighting off some would-be rapists in a back-alley behind a nightclub down the street, you would be a hero. Unfortunately, you would also be in gross dereliction of duty because you were supposed to be at the fucking warehouse, not at a local nightclub, and you would be deservedly fired.

Darth Wong wrote:

Perinquus wrote:She lost him a sale?!? She lost him a sale?!?!

YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!

That is a reasonable justification for witholding lifesaving assistance? So you can make sure a fucking pizza parlor gets a few more lousy dollars? Better that extra ten bucks in the till than a human life saved?

Irrelevant. The question is not whether she did the right thing by saving a life.

If you're working as a security guard and you protect some woman by fighting off some would-be rapists in a back-alley behind a nightclub down the street, you would be a hero. Unfortunately, you would also be in gross dereliction of duty because you were supposed to be at the fucking warehouse, not at a local nightclub, and you would be deservedly fired.

Exactly Once again Lord Wong rides to the rescue.

This is a simple confusion of cause and effect. Cause: Giving a friend a ride in a company car on company time. Effect: Being fired. The injured person doesn't enter into the equation at all.

Sokar wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:

Perinquus wrote:She lost him a sale?!? She lost him a sale?!?!

YOU GOTTA BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!

That is a reasonable justification for witholding lifesaving assistance? So you can make sure a fucking pizza parlor gets a few more lousy dollars? Better that extra ten bucks in the till than a human life saved?

Irrelevant. The question is not whether she did the right thing by saving a life.

If you're working as a security guard and you protect some woman by fighting off some would-be rapists in a back-alley behind a nightclub down the street, you would be a hero. Unfortunately, you would also be in gross dereliction of duty because you were supposed to be at the fucking warehouse, not at a local nightclub, and you would be deservedly fired.

Exactly Once again Lord Wong rides to the rescue.

And may I say I commend the woman for helping the man, but I still stand by the fact that she was doing wrong to begin with and nobody should say anything bad about the manager.

Well, we can also look at it this way-- is the manager really going ot have to say, "Now, don't you go out saving someone's life on your next delivery!" This isn't the kind of thing that happens very often. It is, in fact, safe to assume that it wouldn't happen again.

So why does the manager have to fire her? He should commend her, knowing that it is unlikely to re-occur.

The manager has quite clearly demonstarted what his values are: money. Maybe, what, $16.00 for a pizza? Is that what someone's life is worth? A pepperoni with extra cheese? Sorry, folks, we have enough examples of Americans being portrayed as heartless money pigs. This manager is a grade-A cocksmoker.

Sokar wrote:Ok , first off, everything Ive said, is from the perspective I had to take when I was a member of management, and I might add I don't agree with one shit eating drop of it. There is a reason I quit and went back to school

Did this woman do the right thing, yes. Did her manager do the right thing, again,yes.

Why , as Im sure your all wondering.......

Because if he dosen't, guess who's ass is next on the block, his. His employee broke at least three major rules of the delivery businuess 1. no passengers, other than fellow, clocked in, employees or supervisiors 2. She was on a personal errand on company time, taking her friend home. 4. Upon hearing of a 'incident' ,on her passengers phone I might add, she then ventured further afield to investigate. 4. She, while in uniform, on the clock ,and displaying company signage no doubt, disregarded her responsibilities to the store and customers by assisting an injured man.

To the home office, or this managers regional supervisior, this is a serious problem, mainly from the stand point of potential litigation. They don't care one iota about that mans life, they worry about lawyers and court costs and potential settlements. If that were to happen , and I've seen this happen within Pizza Hut, and entire tier of management from Regional on down to the Resturant manager have been terminated because they allowed an hourly employee to screw up, did not terminate them, and it resultred in litigation.

And thats the reason why this woman who did the right and good thing lost her job. Corporate America is possibily the most souless entity in the universe, and thats why I wont do that kind of work ever again.

Read it , I've been there and know exactly why he did what he did, mainly because I had to do it as well........and it sucks more ass than you've sat on!