StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Oh yeah, the original looked terrible.

White Haven wrote:Apparently the people bitching about an ugly game or a button-masher are playing something else. Well, wherever you are, and whatever you're playing, I hope you enjoy it; in the mean time, I'll be playing Dragon Age 2.

My gawd. Are you always this much of a pretentious douche?

It's the same fucking game idiot. I have to press A over and over. You have to press the space bar once, then the computer presses it over and over.
Maybe game developers realize that PC gamers really are that fat and lazy and they don't want them having heart attacks from the 'exercise'.

And so far, no one is complaining about the graphics, but the art design. Please lift the fat folds from your eyes so you can read properly.

Disclaimer: The only other Bioware game I've played is KOTOR, and I haven't even completed it. *Looks down in shame*

To paraphrase Chardok

Man, that sure is one Bioware-ass Bioware game.

This is a good thing though. I really liked the demo, it showed off what the story is about and gave a good introduction to the mechanics. Exactly what a demo should do. More importantly I wouldn't have even considered playing it (or the original) without the demo.

In fact I liked it so much I've bought the ultimate edition of Origins. I hope other publishers start releasing good demos again!

Yeah, I didn't know who BioWare even was until Stark pointed out the games they made. Then I was all 'Oh yeah. Those games are kinda similar." Luckily I have a bad memory, so I forget the similarities.

Ok, played the game for about 13 hours straight and I'm now in the Deep Roads. That is the "maximum completionist nerd" time-frame, by the way. Now that I've actually seen some of the substance beneath the (ugh) style, here's what I'd have to say:

Good:

- The writing is solid. Which is definitely a good thing, because it keeps the game afloat IMO. Interesting characters, the story is reasonably engrossing thus far. It's definitely a BioWare interactive story-RPG, but that's not a bad thing, especially since this is the strongest thing going for the game so far.

- The combat isn't too bad once you get into it. I still find the two-handed style particularly groan-worthy, but my sword-and-shield warrior is tolerable and I don't have to look at anyone else.

- In contrast with a lot of the rest of the game, magic in general got a facelift from DA: Origins. Firestorms and magical whirlygigs never looked and felt better.

- Lots of little things. Nice, big areas with good design. Good streamlining where things need to be streamlined. Lots of lore, if you're into that.

- It's been pretty stable, at least for me. The demo crashed hard, but the release version hasn't fucked me once, besides some shitty DRM issues (fuck you too EA).

- The time-span thing is cool. It kind of ties into the writing, above, but the way they space out the story gives some events more gravity, which is nice. Also, it seems like instead of the traditional "YOU ARE MIGHTY HERO AND BECOME GOD OF ALL THINGS", your rise in power is more gracefully and realistically portrayed as your friends and companions also gaining power and you having those connections and political influence at your disposal.

The Bad:

- The extra-anime art style is a pretty big WTF. When I first commented on it earlier in the thread, I thought I was exaggerating. Then I met Fenris in-game. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. I triple fucking DOG DARE anyone to say with a straight face that this game isn't blatantly aiming for the anime audience. I guess this isn't really a bad thing per se, but it is jarring (as others have pointed out) and clashes pretty messily with Origins and the general theme and setting of Dragon Age as established thus far. The "Varric is narrating!" excuse is pretty flimsy, too.

- The UI sucks, visually. Functionally, it's fine, but it feels like it belongs in Mass Effect (which, ironically, could have used a functional UI). WTF was wrong with DA's book-and-parchment style? I think BioWare is just confused.

- Combat is stupid. Is this Marvel Ultimate Alliance or the "tactical role-playing game that hearkens back to BioWare's roots with Baldur's Gate" that DA has always been touted as? Now don't get me wrong, I love Marvel Ultimate Alliance, but why in christ would you- it doesn't- i don't know what that- oh god why

Was DA: Origins combat a little sluggish at times? Yes, sure. Did it need work to play better on consoles? I wouldn't know, but I guess, sure. I don't know how that translates to making it EXTREEEEEEME, though. The most insulting and laughable part is that all those awesome kill-moves in Origins (which I always make sure to mod so they play 100% of the time, on every kill, because they're awesome) didn't make the cut for DA2. WTF?

- de facto strictly-archetyped itemization. What I mean by that is the trend for RPGs in the past few years to enforce x-item is only used by x-class, y-item is only used by y-class, and so on. I could write an essay on the subject, but in brief, most items have requirements set up in such a way that you will only ever use a specific linear progression of item types throughout the entire game. A warrior will never (and cannot ever, thanks to the requirements and the way stats work now) use lighter armor, or a bow, or daggers, etc.; a rogue will not and cannot use heavier armor, etc etc. See more notes on itemization model below.

The Ugly

- All the retcons and redesigns. WTF (again)? Now Qunari are demon people with horns. Elves look like they started cross-breeding with the Asgard. All the armor and weapons (which I thought were mostly cool in Origins, if a little too fantasy-stylized for my liking at times) have been super-anime-fantasy-stylized now and just don't even look like they belong in reality anymore.

- The character creator seems a bit fiddly. Technically, it seems as if there are more options, yet it feels like there are less. It's weird, and I can't quite put my finger on it.

- The DLC shit. Jesus.

- Companions work more like in Mass Effect 2. They have their outfit and that's that. You can upgrade it a little, but other than that, all the armor in game serves absolutely no other purpose than to equip Hawke. This has the ugly side-effect of wrecking the 20-year-old itemization model that RPGs like this are fundamentally founded upon. ME2 is a good example of treating items/equipment in a different (not necessarily better or worse) way, but DA2 is just confused. I get piles and piles of all these items which I guess would be cool, but it's all effectively vendor trash because I equip my Hawke with the thing I want and then that's it -- I never need anything else.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:- The combat isn't too bad once you get into it. I still find the two-handed style particularly groan-worthy, but my sword-and-shield warrior is tolerable and I don't have to look at anyone else.

What about two-handers did you find bad, specifically?

- In contrast with a lot of the rest of the game, magic in general got a facelift from DA: Origins. Firestorms and magical whirlygigs never looked and felt better.

As an aside, I never got the complaint about DA:O over how crap it looked. Honestly I liked the visuals in DA:O.

- The time-span thing is cool. It kind of ties into the writing, above, but the way they space out the story gives some events more gravity, which is nice. Also, it seems like instead of the traditional "YOU ARE MIGHTY HERO AND BECOME GOD OF ALL THINGS", your rise in power is more gracefully and realistically portrayed as your friends and companions also gaining power and you having those connections and political influence at your disposal.

Yeah, that's one of the things that has made me interested in purchasing this game.

The Bad:

- The extra-anime art style is a pretty big WTF. When I first commented on it earlier in the thread, I thought I was exaggerating. Then I met Fenris in-game. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. I triple fucking DOG DARE anyone to say with a straight face that this game isn't blatantly aiming for the anime audience. I guess this isn't really a bad thing per se, but it is jarring (as others have pointed out) and clashes pretty messily with Origins and the general theme and setting of Dragon Age as established thus far. The "Varric is narrating!" excuse is pretty flimsy, too.

- The UI sucks, visually. Functionally, it's fine, but it feels like it belongs in Mass Effect (which, ironically, could have used a functional UI). WTF was wrong with DA's book-and-parchment style? I think BioWare is just confused.

- Combat is stupid. Is this Marvel Ultimate Alliance or the "tactical role-playing game that hearkens back to BioWare's roots with Baldur's Gate" that DA has always been touted as? Now don't get me wrong, I love Marvel Ultimate Alliance, but why in christ would you- it doesn't- i don't know what that- oh god why

Was DA: Origins combat a little sluggish at times? Yes, sure. Did it need work to play better on consoles? I wouldn't know, but I guess, sure. I don't know how that translates to making it EXTREEEEEEME, though. The most insulting and laughable part is that all those awesome kill-moves in Origins (which I always make sure to mod so they play 100% of the time, on every kill, because they're awesome) didn't make the cut for DA2. WTF?

- de facto strictly-archetyped itemization. What I mean by that is the trend for RPGs in the past few years to enforce x-item is only used by x-class, y-item is only used by y-class, and so on. I could write an essay on the subject, but in brief, most items have requirements set up in such a way that you will only ever use a specific linear progression of item types throughout the entire game. A warrior will never (and cannot ever, thanks to the requirements and the way stats work now) use lighter armor, or a bow, or daggers, etc.; a rogue will not and cannot use heavier armor, etc etc. See more notes on itemization model below.

...and these are all the reasons that have just killed my interest.

The Ugly

- All the retcons and redesigns. WTF (again)? Now Qunari are demon people with horns. Elves look like they started cross-breeding with the Asgard. All the armor and weapons (which I thought were mostly cool in Origins, if a little too fantasy-stylized for my liking at times) have been super-anime-fantasy-stylized now and just don't even look like they belong in reality anymore.

I never liked the look of weapons and armour in Origins, I needed to download a mod to make things less stylised, like swords and daggers that actually look like fucking swords and daggers, and massive armour without the goddamn gigantic, WoW-ised pauldrons. If DA2 has taken that to 11, then holy shit. I've seen screenshots supposedly of two-hand swords which look nothing like two-hand swords.

- The DLC shit. Jesus.

Can you elaborate?

- Companions work more like in Mass Effect 2. They have their outfit and that's that. You can upgrade it a little, but other than that, all the armor in game serves absolutely no other purpose than to equip Hawke. This has the ugly side-effect of wrecking the 20-year-old itemization model that RPGs like this are fundamentally founded upon. ME2 is a good example of treating items/equipment in a different (not necessarily better or worse) way, but DA2 is just confused. I get piles and piles of all these items which I guess would be cool, but it's all effectively vendor trash because I equip my Hawke with the thing I want and then that's it -- I never need anything else.

lol biofail

So they went ME2's route with the inventory but still kept loot, which turns out to be completely worthless because you can't equip your party members. Wow. *clap-clap*

You can still equip your party, just can't change their armor for whatever reason. You can still change their weapons, accessories, etc. Different races were redesigned so that they were more distinct from each other, as opposed to elves being short humans and qunari being tall ones.

Losonti Tokash wrote:You can still equip your party, just can't change their armor for whatever reason. You can still change their weapons, accessories, etc.

That's somewhat better than what I feared.

Different races were redesigned so that they were more distinct from each other, as opposed to elves being short humans and qunari being tall ones.

*shrugs* The races were pretty distinct as far as I'm concerned. I thought Sten was some sort of runt, other qunari were supposed to be bigger/taller - although that falls apart when you look at the other qunari mercs you encounter in DA:O. In any case, it's big leap to go from 'tall humans > guys with horns'. As for the elves, they look like stock-standard elves, same goes for the dwarves. On that note, what exactly changed in their appearance in DA2?

I never got any 'anime' impression from my playing the demo, really. It just seemed ... stylized.

Stofsk wrote:

Losonti Tokash wrote:You can still equip your party, just can't change their armor for whatever reason. You can still change their weapons, accessories, etc.

That's somewhat better than what I feared.

Different races were redesigned so that they were more distinct from each other, as opposed to elves being short humans and qunari being tall ones.

*shrugs* The races were pretty distinct as far as I'm concerned. I thought Sten was some sort of runt, other qunari were supposed to be bigger/taller - although that falls apart when you look at the other qunari mercs you encounter in DA:O. In any case, it's big leap to go from 'tall humans > guys with horns'. As for the elves, they look like stock-standard elves, same goes for the dwarves. On that note, what exactly changed in their appearance in DA2?

Some qunari are born without horns. They tend to be the ones used to deal with humans since their appearance causes less problems, which is why Sten and the others soldiers he's with (that get sent into human lands) don't have horns even though most qunari do. Elves are a bit skinnier, ears are more promient. Dalish elves have Welsh accents now.

As for armor upgrades, it's not like the research terminal in ME2. You get some item from doing a companion quest and their equipment improves.

Can you elaborate?

If it's anything like DA:O, then this image sums it up.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:- The extra-anime art style is a pretty big WTF.

My character looks like she was designed by Tetsuya Nomura. urgh

- The character creator seems a bit fiddly. Technically, it seems as if there are more options, yet it feels like there are less. It's weird, and I can't quite put my finger on it.

There are definitely less options. They restrict you to making relatively minor modifications to the presets they toss you, presumably so that it's easier to get your family member characters to resemble you. It's impossible to make a unique character that's not based on one of the preset faces. urrgghhh

Not got my copy yet. But I've been looking over art, and I loved the demo, and I felt I might as well give my opinions.

I like the over-the-top combat. Yea, it can be insulted with many easy ways, but I like that I'm seeing a bit more from, say, Mighty Blow than just 'Oh, swing from below'. Also, I like the huge moves. Call me crazy.

I do not get the talks of 'anime style'. The elves don't strike me as 'anime', so much as '...That is alien'. The appearance of them in DA2 DOES explain why they get shit, you look at one, it's 'christ, that's not even close to human'. Quite unlike original DA.

SirNitram wrote:I do not get the talks of 'anime style'.

Vympel wrote:I never got any 'anime' impression from my playing the demo, really. It just seemed ... stylized.

Go meet Fenris. No, seriously. For my first few hours of play, I figured "anime art style" was admittedly pretty debatable. Then you meet Fenris.

Stofsk wrote:On that note, what exactly changed in their appearance in DA2?

If you mean dwarves, they're mercifully about the same. Elves look like they have Grey Aliens in their ancestry.

Stofsk wrote:What about two-handers did you find bad, specifically?

They feel particularly ridiculous in combat. If I was playing a 2-hander warrior, I would never be able to escape the sensation that I'm playing Heavenly Sword or Bayonetta.

Stofsk wrote:As an aside, I never got the complaint about DA:O over how crap it looked. Honestly I liked the visuals in DA:O.

Me too. I particularly liked the character graphics. Games like Neverwinter Nights 2 and Oblivion suffered from having bland character creators but with DA I immediately felt engrossed in my character's appearance.

Stofsk wrote:Can you elaborate?

Grif covered it to some extent. It's annoying to set up and link all your stupid promotional crap and pre-order packages and WTF-I-don't-even-know-why-I-have-this. All this release-day DLC is a headache, it's stupid, it's annoying, it's stupid, it screws up the game's itemization even more, and it's stupid.

Only bad thing I have to say is the constant freezes that last between 5 and 10 seconds but happens every few minutes. I have the pc version so hopwfully the first patch will take care of that.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote: Go meet Fenris. No, seriously. For my first few hours of play, I figured "anime art style" was admittedly pretty debatable. Then you meet Fenris.

Google image search suggests that he's just Elric with a haircut. Does he angst and brood like Elric as well?

Seggybop wrote:Yeah, autoattack definitely works fine in the PC full version of the game. No D2-type clickspam or anything like that.

I am going to totally blow your mind. Load up D2, find something to attack, hold down the right (I think) mouse button over it.

I've been playing. Just got the 50 gold needed to help with the expedition though I haven't moved onto that quest yet.

I haven't found a pair that produces quite the delicious snark of Alistair and Morrigan, though there is some good Elf/Dwarf based sniping involving frollicing.

I'm also still 'farming' the 50 gold to hit the Deep Roads, and having a great time. I'm working on a "Bitch Squad", although I have to say Justice (Embodied Fade Spirit) is an interesting addition to the party. I'd wondered how they'd fit him in.

Also, is it just me or does there seem to be a restlessness amongst the Mages?

Now why ever would that be the case Tevar? It seems so nice that they get to hang out with the Templars so much.

Seriously though, yeah there is definite unease.. probably has to do with the Knight Commander who keeps getting name dropped, or it's fallout from the Circle Tower incident from DA which I've seen name dropped at least once.

And after playing longer I find myself liking the new elf look more and more. It's different enough that it's much easier to think of them as a seperate species as opposed to 'humans with pointy ears'.

Also with regard to the elves.. Spoiler

Yes, Sylas, that certain elf certainly has all the perky-goth/shy-girl traits that made her adorably cute.

I think I'm going to have my female rogue (Merlina Hawke) jump her bones... and Anders... and the Pirate when I find her.... maybe Verhec too. A dwarf with no beard is surprisingly handsome.

You are a dirty, dirty girl.

Just so you guys know:

Quote: In a recent email sent to their subscribers, representatives from RYG wrote:

Quote: We have CONFIRMED from testing that it [Dragon Age 2] DOES contain
SecuROM, and that it DOES leave files behind. We can also confirm that
nowhere on the package, in the EULA or on the Website for the game is
there ANY mention of the inclusion of SecuROM. EA had been ordered by
the courts to disclose the use of SecuROM on any game that uses it. And
it is contradictory of what Bioware has been saying for the last 3
weeks.

In their report, RYG cites multiple areas of concern, including:
* Inconsistent information about DRM
* No EULA for SecuROM
* SecuROM files hidden from user
* SecuROM files not removed after online activation
* DRM removal tool not included; SecuROM remains even after user uninstalls game

http://vividgamer.com/2011/03/10/ea-fai ... on-age-ii/

SirNitram wrote:You are a dirty, dirty girl.

Like you don't enjoy it

Had the game freeze on us last night (PS3), but it reverted to the last auto-save not 5min before and so we didn't lose anything. *whew*

Highlord Laan wrote:Just so you guys know:

Quote: In a recent email sent to their subscribers, representatives from RYG wrote:

Quote: We have CONFIRMED from testing that it [Dragon Age 2] DOES contain
SecuROM, and that it DOES leave files behind. We can also confirm that
nowhere on the package, in the EULA or on the Website for the game is
there ANY mention of the inclusion of SecuROM. EA had been ordered by
the courts to disclose the use of SecuROM on any game that uses it. And
it is contradictory of what Bioware has been saying for the last 3
weeks.

In their report, RYG cites multiple areas of concern, including:
* Inconsistent information about DRM
* No EULA for SecuROM
* SecuROM files hidden from user
* SecuROM files not removed after online activation
* DRM removal tool not included; SecuROM remains even after user uninstalls game

http://vividgamer.com/2011/03/10/ea-fai ... on-age-ii/

Are you fucking serious? Well there's no way I'm buying this even at budget price. I had hoped I was done hating on big publishers for a while. DRM is a big deciding factor in what PC games I buy, and if publishers can't at least be honest about it they should have the pants sued off of them, though naturally they won't. I hate this shit in the industry. I might not buy Mass Effect 3 now. I'll make that decision when it's released.

Also, there's this. This could very well be untrue, but I love this bit:

Stanley Woo wrote:2. EA Community bans come down from a different department and are the result of someone hitting the REPORT POST button. These bans can affect access to your game and/or DLC.

Because the BioWare community now operates under the same umbrella as all EA Communities, community members here have all explicitly agreed to abide by and be governed by both sets of rules. Consider it an added incentive to follow the rules you say you're going to follow.

I don't care if the guy called all of EA a bunch of sons of whores, revoking access to a single player game someone has paid for is bullshit. Anyone on the receiving end of such crap should consider it an added incentive to pirate the shit out of THEIR game and all future releases. (I don't condone piracy but I won't lose any sleep over a publisher like EA's lost sales due to their dishonesty and sleaziness.)