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Col. Crackpot wrote:So let me get this straight.... People here actually want to suspend the debate of a serious issue just because it is devisive and feelings will be hurt and there will be people who will take that opportunity to flame? That is some Grade A BULLSHIT!

Name a single gun control argument where it has ever gotten anywhere.

All I know is that I am personally whole heartedly against gun control, and, whenever I see a thread about it, I usually end up getting into some extended debate about it without getting myself or anyone else anywhere.

Everyone ends up saying THE EXACT SAME THINGS every time, and no one gets anywhere.

NF_Utvol wrote:

Col. Crackpot wrote:So let me get this straight.... People here actually want to suspend the debate of a serious issue just because it is devisive and feelings will be hurt and there will be people who will take that opportunity to flame? That is some Grade A BULLSHIT!

Name a single gun control argument where it has ever gotten anywhere.

All I know is that I am personally whole heartedly against gun control, and, whenever I see a thread about it, I usually end up getting into some extended debate about it without getting myself or anyone else anywhere.

Everyone ends up saying THE EXACT SAME THINGS every time, and no one gets anywhere.

regardless, it sets a dangerous prescedent....banning threads debating issues of civil liberties.

Crackpot, it's the same reason Israel-Palestine debates aren't allowed.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Crackpot, it's the same reason Israel-Palestine debates aren't allowed.

i understand why....it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth , that's all.

I'm sick of this particular merry-go-round as well. It's clear that the gun nuts (Shep, Utvol, myself) are never going to come to a consensus with the gun haters (practically every European on the board). Pointless flamewars waste bandwidth. Unless and until there's some radical new development in the debate, I'm in favor of the moratorium. If you're that desparate to debate it, take it to PM.

RedImperator wrote:I'm sick of this particular merry-go-round as well. It's clear that the gun nuts (Shep, Utvol, myself) are never going to come to a consensus with the gun haters (practically every European on the board). Pointless flamewars waste bandwidth. Unless and until there's some radical new development in the debate, I'm in favor of the moratorium. If you're that desparate to debate it, take it to PM.

well then lets show our beliefs and start the SD.net NRA or something

RedImperator wrote:I'm sick of this particular merry-go-round as well. It's clear that the gun nuts (Shep, Utvol, myself) are never going to come to a consensus with the gun haters (practically every European on the board).

Obviously. Everybody who thinks the US has a tiny problem with gun-connected crime and thinks that maybe a better regulation
of access to them could help and is european to boot (everybody knows we're all rooting for Saddam, anyway) MUST hate guns.

We need a sarcasm tag.

NF_Utvol wrote:

Col. Crackpot wrote:So let me get this straight.... People here actually want to suspend the debate of a serious issue just because it is devisive and feelings will be hurt and there will be people who will take that opportunity to flame? That is some Grade A BULLSHIT!

Name a single gun control argument where it has ever gotten anywhere.

All I know is that I am personally whole heartedly against gun control, and, whenever I see a thread about it, I usually end up getting into some extended debate about it without getting myself or anyone else anywhere.

Everyone ends up saying THE EXACT SAME THINGS every time, and no one gets anywhere.

hey, kollege, i changed my views on gun controll in the us in last view months. i can´t say wether this had to do with discussions on sd.net or not but probably they were part of it.

RedImperator wrote:(Shep, Utvol, myself)

How about NF instead of Utvol? It should be UTVol, anywho, I PMed mike about changing it, but am yet to get a reply.

Col. Crackpot wrote:

RedImperator wrote:I'm sick of this particular merry-go-round as well. It's clear that the gun nuts (Shep, Utvol, myself) are never going to come to a consensus with the gun haters (practically every European on the board). Pointless flamewars waste bandwidth. Unless and until there's some radical new development in the debate, I'm in favor of the moratorium. If you're that desparate to debate it, take it to PM.

well then lets show our beliefs and start the SD.net NRA or something

Sounds good to me, lol.

RedImperator wrote:(Shep, Utvol, myself)

You missed me...

I dislike these moratoriums. And the argument that it doesn't go anywhere is bull. Most debates about creationism, politics, etc also end up moot (or with the slaying of the fools) but, if we ban them all, we'll end up discussing the weather, like in some other boards.

So, I'm against the idea.

However, I favour slaying new threads about it. If you want to continue the discussion, bump an already existing thread.

And, of course, the HOS waits for the more exalted members of the board.

Gun control means hitting your target. I think we can all agree that's a good thing, so I see no need for a Moratorium.

Really though, I don't care.

salm wrote:<snip>
hey, kollege, i changed my views on gun controll in the us in last view months. i can´t say wether this had to do with discussions on sd.net or not but probably they were part of it.

kollege? Whazat?

BTW, just out of curiosity, what is your point of view on it?

To be honest, I'm against a moratorium. We already have one subject moratorium (Israel/Palestine), and I'd like to point out the differences between that subject and this one.

1. Gun control debates are generally less flame-filled than I/P debates.
2. Gun control debates generally stay on the subject of gun control. You don't find people accusing each other of racism or religious hate, the way you do with I/P debates. I/P debates range into subjects of race, hisory, nationalism, and religion; they are almost tailor-made to start flamewars.
3. Very few subjects are hijacked into gun control debates. The wisdom of the I/P moratorium has been made clear during the buildup to this War in Iraq, where virtually every thread would have been hijacked into an I/P debate sooner or later without the moratorium.
4. Gun control laws are relatively fluid, ie- they do change over time. At any time, a new gun control law could be passed or repealed in some city or state. Therefore, the subject is relatively dynamic, and new developments are always possible which may merit discussion. In the I/P debate, however, the only "new development" we ever hear about is another bombing or shooting; nothing really changes in terms of the basic situation.
5. Gun control debates have never been as numerous as I/P debates (during the peak, there were often several I/P debates running simultaneously in both the OT and SLAM forums).

The fact that debates can become repetitive or that it's very difficult to convince one's opponent of one's position in the gun control debate is not sufficient reason to ban them; one would have to ask why we bother to debate 99% of our subjects if this is the criterion. However, I would support more moderate suggestions such as demanding that a new thread be sparked by some kind of actual news, rather than people just popping up and asking "gun control- what do you guys think?" when there are plenty of threads about the subject already.

Perhaps a list of existing threads about the subject should be compiled for reference purposes whenever this happens.

Although the gun control debates have never been as long-winded and flame-filled as the I/P debates have, they gun control debates are similar in the way that no side convinces the other side to concede a point. I still don't think a moratorium shojuld be declared yet. We should wait to see if they get any nastier, then have a moratorium.

I am against a moratorium on gun control debates. Come on, we've had them in ASVS and nobody put up a hissy fit...

The problem with a web board is that you have to strike a balance between killing all dissent and allowing flamewars.

Crayz9000 wrote: killing all dissent

Can I? Can I? Please.. It's almost my birthday

Colonel Olrik wrote:Can I? Can I? Please.. It's almost my birthday

You're asking the wrong person, I have no authority here anymore