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FaxModem1 wrote:VGR and DS9 have no crossover events, aside from Robert Picardo guest starring as Doctor Zimmerman guest starring on one episode of DS9 and in an episode of VOY they have the Dominion mentioned to the Doctor. Aside from that, no crossovers.

VOY also referenced the destruction of the Maquis, because someone on the writing staff realized that would sorta be a big deal to Chakotay and Torres.

Batman wrote:TNG had the advantage of better special effects and there being more than twice of it than there was of the original TOS, and I would tentatively admit that I liked TNG better than TOS (at least I don't have to stay up until 0500 to watch TNG reruns), but my preferred era are still the TOS movies.

I think TOS got a lot more millage out of the special effects, and also recognized their limitations, relying more on the actors, editing and music to carry the battles. I cannot honestly call any of the TNG battles all that memorable. Maybe "Yesterday's Enterprise" for the rather cool moment when Picard orders "Continue fire all phasers!" and the Ent-D blasts the shit out of a BoP.

"Balance of Terror" IMHO remains the best space battle of televised Trek. The stakes are set high. The entire cast conveys tension and fear when necessary. The effects suck, but they do their job.

I'll also take "The Doomsday Machine" before any TNG battles.

"Best of Both Worlds" I'm not sure how to qualify. It doesn't feel like what I'd call a space battle episode. It was more of a chase I suppose. There are battle scenes, but the episode, like the best of TOS carried more by the cast and how dire the stakes were set instead of the visual effects.

Further, I know how corny they look, but creatures like the Mugatu, Horta and Gorn were more memorable than a lot of what TNG threw out there in the alien department. Yes, TNG established a ton of recurring aliens, but the three I mentioned, and others like the Tholians and Talosians at least tried to look alien.

I would have to say TOS, although TNG is a close second. I saw TOS first, although TNG had already started in the US. In those days it often took several years for new shows to be imported to Finnish television, and ST never enjoyed the kind of position it has in the US. Even today most Finnish non-geeks know captain Kirk and other TOS characters only through references to them in American mainstream TV shows, if they know about them at all.

When TNG started I thought it was crap, and considering the quality of the first two seasons I was not wrong. Still, there was no other scifi shows on Finnish TV at the time, so I kept watching regardless, and eventually it got better. Later seasons of TNG had some very good episodes. I didn't see most of DS9 until five years ago, but as a complete series it is my favorite of all the TNG era Trek shows, mainly because it lacks the kind of long cringe-worthy periods like the aforementioned TNG seasons. DS9 first season was not great, but it was okay. For a new show that is pretty good, even if DS9 never quite took off in the way Babylon 5 did.

The idealism of TNG era was never a problem for me in principle, but the fact that it killed the drama for the first to seasons of TNG was. Utopia does not mean almost complete lack of interpersonal conflict and I still don't see how Roddenberry ever thought it was a sensible thing to do in a TV show...

Marcus Aurelius wrote:The idealism of TNG era was never a problem for me in principle, but the fact that it killed the drama for the first to seasons of TNG was. Utopia does not mean almost complete lack of interpersonal conflict and I still don't see how Roddenberry ever thought it was a sensible thing to do in a TV show...

Roddenberry bought into his own propaganda. It's a matter of record the TNG writers thought the lack of interpersonal conflict was insane because it robbed the show of drama.

The presence of such conflict was another reason I like DS9 -- and hate VGR since they botched it horribly.

Norade wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:VGR and DS9 have no crossover events, aside from Robert Picardo guest starring as Doctor Zimmerman guest starring on one episode of DS9 and in an episode of VOY they have the Dominion mentioned to the Doctor. Aside from that, no crossovers.

He was, in staying with his character, referring to comic books set in DC's universe.

Heck, I thought me explicitly saying so in that post would have been hint enough. I mean it's not like I didn't mention the DCU or the Batverse or something.

I guess I'm just thick or something.

JME2 wrote:

Marcus Aurelius wrote: Roddenberry bought into his own propaganda. It's a matter of record the TNG writers thought the lack of interpersonal conflict was insane because it robbed the show of drama.

Yes, I know that. I just don't get why Roddenberry thought it would A) be a good idea in a TV show and B) be necessary to convey the utopian message. The aim of utopia is not to make conflicts between people to go away completely, but to make sure that they do not escalate to physical or emotional violence or threaten anyone's long term mental health or livelihood (like they unfortunately do in the real world). A society completely without conflict is an inhuman society not far removed from the Borg, which I think someone else has also pointed out previously (perhaps Chuck in one of his reviews?)

One of the best things that ever happened to TNG was when Roddenberry left and Michael Piller got involved. A lot of the writers from the first two seasons were fucking awful, and so was their product.

While the Enterprise never ceased being a happy ship and crew, there were moments of friction between the characters at various points from season three onwards.

The Original Series all the way. What other show has the material to compose amazing music videos such as this (propably NSFW):


I love Shatner & Co. For the longest time as a kid I had this image of Trek as some sort of classy, high brow alternative to Star Wars, but after finally catching TOS running on TV I saw it's just this amazing pulp adventure. Easily up there with The Prisoner, Twilight Zone and Batman as far as televized 60's pop goes.

The TOS movies are also the earliest visual media I can remember, along with Bakshi's LOTR and De Palma's Phantom of the Paradise. For years I had these mesmerizing images of The Motion Picture, Voyage Home and the homing torpedo at the end of VI in my head, never connecting to the source until I started renting the movies some years back.

Hmmmm, tricky.

I subjectively prefered Star Trek: The Next Generation as a TV show to Star Trek: The Original Series, while the TOS movies decisively blow most of TNG movies out of the water (with only First Contact being genuinely good). Star Trek: TOS on hindsight has dated better than the incredibly cheesy looking Lost in Space and the leaden Hartnell era Doctor Who, it had many good episodes ("The Cormite Maneuver" and "The Conscience of the King" to name a few) but was not infallable either ("The Way to Eden") and ended on a rather sour note by trailing off with "Turnabout Intruder". TNG had "All Good Things".