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Enigma wrote:

JasonB wrote:I think answer to get past Earth surface defense that Borg saw as a threat to their invasion plan. High ranking officer like Caption have the code so need assimilate some Caption or Admiral.

Captain not Caption. A captain does not provide subtitles to conversations.

*Captioning for today's away team mission is provided by Caption Picard. Derp Derp Derp.*

Plus, The Borg hardly needed to worry about any defenses Earth had because that one Cube had effortlessly gone through almost 40 ships and the Mars Defense ships before reaching Earth. Not once that a Cube managed to reach Earth but twice.

Both times the Borg had assimilated UFP Caption both Star Trek first Contact and Best of Both worlds and in Star Terk 2009 UFP either unwilling or unable to change the codes for Earth defense systems before the Narada show up. So it is possible UFP was unable to change the codes when Borg had assimilate someone who known them

Yeah. The Borg were able to disable all of the Mars defense perimeter forces except for those three whatevers because of...um, something.

Just change the Battle of Wolf 359 to the Battle of Mars and the whole thing makes a little more sense. In terms of why the Borg would need Picard, the main problem is that we know a lot about the Borg's efforts to assimilate the Federation but not a lot about their efforts to assimilate other species.

I don't see how having to battle past Mars to get to Earth makes much sense at all.
Even if we discount three-dimensional thinking, Mars and Earth are nowhere near each other most of the time.

Or does the Mars perimeter defense system go all the way around Mars' orbit path? That would certainly explain why it looked a little thin...

Well obviously Mars just happened to be right in the Borg's way to Earth (regardless of whether or not orbital mechanics actually allow for that) so its (pretty pathetic as it appears) defenses were in position to come into play. I mean it's not like the Borg could have Warped in above or below the ecliptic and simply made a beeline for Earth or something.

Darth Tedious wrote:I don't see how having to battle past Mars to get to Earth makes much sense at all.
Even if we discount three-dimensional thinking, Mars and Earth are nowhere near each other most of the time.

Or does the Mars perimeter defense system go all the way around Mars' orbit path? That would certainly explain why it looked a little thin...

I was just thinking that 40 ships make more sense as a defense for the central system of the Federation than a few drones/probes/whatever they were. You could just have the ships converge on whatever point the Borg show up at be it Mars or elsewhere.

They did. That point was Wolf 359.

Darth Tedious wrote:I don't see how having to battle past Mars to get to Earth makes much sense at all.
Even if we discount three-dimensional thinking, Mars and Earth are nowhere near each other most of the time.

Or does the Mars perimeter defense system go all the way around Mars' orbit path? That would certainly explain why it looked a little thin...

I interpret it to mean the orbit not the planet. Warp tends to bring forces out fairly far out in the system, and everyone tends to come in at impulse once coming out of warp.

I seem to recall this happening in the invasion of the Chintoka system in DS9's sixth season finale. They had to go through a bunch of unmanned defence satellites, which did pretty impressive damage all told to the Fleet before they magicked a solution to it. Which is why it's a lol people are going the three unmanned drones were pathetic.

OR MAYBE the Borg cube was just so much better. You design defences to counter the adversaries you expect to face. Fleets of romulan warbirds, cardassian ships or klingon ships. We never saw these drones used against them.

Batman wrote:They did. That point was Wolf 359.

I've often wondered what might have happened if Hansen had heeded Riker's urging to concentrate the fleet at Sector 001 instead of Wolf 359.

Probably not much difference, but worth thinking about.

I really don't remember Riker urging Hanson to gather the fleet at the solar system instead of Wolf 359.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if they were hoping to hold out long enough for the Klingon ships to be able to make it. I suspect that the Borg cut through the fleet much faster than anyone had anticipated, given how long the Enterprise usually managed to hold out by itself.

Also the speed thing is a good point too, seeing as Starfleet's very fastest ship had a hard time keeping up with the Cube, and in fact can't outrun it in a dead sprint.

Multiverse wrote: I was just thinking that 40 ships make more sense as a defense for the central system of the Federation than a few drones/probes/whatever they were. You could just have the ships converge on whatever point the Borg show up at be it Mars or elsewhere.

Thing to remember is that the Borg cube represented a unique threat at the time. Any fleet force invasion from any of the other known powers at that time would probably have taken much more time to reach the inner worlds of the Federation, allowing that much more time for Starfleet to muster its forces to meet the threat. There would also be other factors in play, such as the possibility for a retaliatory strike into enemy territory, and being able to harass supply lines. Similarly, any lone ship or squadron would be far easier for the local starships and defense assets to handle; those three drones might have been easy pickings for a Borg Cube, but maybe they're giant cruise missiles that could each easily wipe out a Warbird.

Anyway, the best assets of Starfleet aren't going to be tasked with sitting around the core systems - they're going to be out on the periphery where they can do the most good patrolling among the colonies and outposts, offering the fiercest resistance to would-be invaders before they get in, or - in a more desperate scenario - leading the charge in retaliation.

Uraniun235 wrote:I really don't remember Riker urging Hanson to gather the fleet at the solar system instead of Wolf 359.

It's early in part 2.

Ghetto edit: actually it's at the end of part 1, after the away team had beamed over to the cube but before they found Picard's uniform.

JME2 wrote:I've often wondered what might have happened if Hansen had heeded Riker's urging to concentrate the fleet at Sector 001 instead of Wolf 359.

Probably not much difference, but worth thinking about.

What's 'worth thinking about' it? If there are no fixed defences, it doesn't matter where they fight except further away from civilians = better.

Is there a reason the cube dropped out to fight in Wolf 359? Had they intercepted the cube, or did they concentrate ships in a system and the cube stopped just to kill them?

Stark wrote:Is there a reason the cube dropped out to fight in Wolf 359? Had they intercepted the cube, or did they concentrate ships in a system and the cube stopped just to kill them?

Both, I think. Hanson said near the end of Part 1 that they were "moving to intercept at Wolf 359," so presumably the system happened to be in the cube's flight path. Since the Borg had Picard in their midst they probably knew that 40 ships (or 39 as it actually turned out) would be a serious loss for Starfleet, and figured it was worth their while to drop out of warp for ten minutes and wipe out Hanson's little task force.

I don't think we're ever given an explanation for this. We know Trek ships can fight at Warp if necessary so maybe the Borg decided since they'd have to deal with the Wolf 359 fleet anyway doing it STL was the most efficient way to do it.
Or maybe Wolf 359 has the best coffee bar in the Alpha Quadrant and Locutus wanted a double latte, who knows.

But the cube could outrun the Enterprise, I think it's unlikely the crazy fleet the pulled together could have kept pace with it. It's surprising Wolf 359 was even on a direct line of the cube's path, but maybe 'at' Wolf 359 means 'sorta near'. In DS9 do you see how close it is to the star?

Maybe it really was just Locutus being a cunt.

The Cube could outrun the big E in the long run, she was capable of keeping up for several hours if memory serves, and the fleet had the distinct advantage of starting out ahead of the Cube. Might have given them enough of a lead to be a bother for enough longer than the what, ten minutes it took to get rid of them to make it doing it at impulse worthwhile?
Or it was just Picard being a cunt. As I said, I don't think we're ever actually given an explanation*. Heck for all we know Wolf 359 was the Toll Booth on the Evil Guy Invading Sector 001 highway and the Borg slowed down to pay the toll.

*Which with Trek is not necessarily a bad thing. I prefer no explanation at all over an explanation that positively makes no sense.

Darth Tedious wrote:I don't see how having to battle past Mars to get to Earth makes much sense at all.
Even if we discount three-dimensional thinking, Mars and Earth are nowhere near each other most of the time.

Or does the Mars perimeter defense system go all the way around Mars' orbit path? That would certainly explain why it looked a little thin...

Reason the Borg cube even waste it time attacking UFP fleet Worf 359 and wast their time go to each planet in the solar system was give UFP Shock and awe . This tactic is used in modern day warfare break enemy will to fight. As for mars defense spacecrafts is possible Borg know were to hit them not like UFP starship themselves did have soft spots the same goes spacecrafts. Borg new codes what better way spread terror thought UFP stop by each planet solar system as people look down helplessly defense did not go off.

There's the obvious explanation that the cube didn't want to just get to Earth; it wanted to invade it. They probably decided destroying the fleet rallied to oppose it would give it some peace and quiet once it reached Earth, rather than having to fight them off (amusingly FC shows that they were probably right).

Small problem with that-the Borg didn't engage any planet in the solar system, including Mars. They blew away whatever those three thingies launched by the Mars defense perimeter were and that was it.

Sometimes I really worry about your tiny, tiny brain. They were driving at Earth, genius. What do you think they were going to do when they got there? Just say TAG YOU'RE IT and leave again?

If they were going to take it over, or even destroy it, it's reasonable to assume they didn't want to be interrupted; at the time, the borg seemed very bad at multitasking or decision-making, and destroying the only local force that can respond makes sense. This would certainly buy them many hours (perhaps even longer) without interference.

'Oh but they drove past Mars! wah wah wah'

Err-f that was in response to my last post, that one was in response to Jason, not you.I realize talking to JasonB is essentially pointless but hey, it passes the time.

Engaging at Wolf 359 makes a decent amount of sense if the Borg want to avoid the confrontation later. Trying to assimilate Earth while 40 ships pound away or begin evacuating the planet would hamper Borg assimilation efforts and one ship will not be able to cover ALL of Earth from escaping.

Additionally, attacking the fleet at Wolf 359 effectively cripples a massive source of resistance the Federation is capable of mounting. The E-D was capable of being a pain in the cube's ass long enough without having 40 more ships added to the mix. Killing the Admiral who would organise that resistance further increases the chances the Borg will be able to proceed unchallenged.

Alternatively, the Borg may not be able to sustain their super warp-speed while an ongoing firefight rages around them. In which case, the Borg have ample reason to exterminate the fleet or they are going to have a trailing party behind them which they will have to deal with EVENTUALLY so doing it sooner rather than later would be rather efficient.

Voyager established the cube was assimilating folks at Wolf 359 - A recruiting splurge before they go on a mass assimilation of Earth with the added benefit they can mind rape more Feds for tactical information etc.

As for the cube blasting through them easily. The brief clip seen in DS9 shows the Fed attack was disorganised with no focus fire, the same situation seen in First Contact. When some bright Fed managed to take control of the fleet and focus fire the cube gets hammered. It seems reasonable the Borg did so well at Wolf 359 and First Contact because they destroyed the Admiral ships early in the fight leaving the rest of the Feds in a cluster fuck of trying to organise themselves.

As for blazing through Mars, that is the location of the Federation shipyards. Possible the Borg were doing a flyby scan / attack of the defences to size them up for assimilation when the Borg have hit Earth.

Batman wrote:The Cube could outrun the big E in the long run, she was capable of keeping up for several hours if memory serves, and the fleet had the distinct advantage of starting out ahead of the Cube. Might have given them enough of a lead to be a bother for enough longer than the what, ten minutes it took to get rid of them to make it doing it at impulse worthwhile?
Or it was just Picard being a cunt. As I said, I don't think we're ever actually given an explanation*. Heck for all we know Wolf 359 was the Toll Booth on the Evil Guy Invading Sector 001 highway and the Borg slowed down to pay the toll.

*Which with Trek is not necessarily a bad thing. I prefer no explanation at all over an explanation that positively makes no sense.

Late but, lol.

Plain simple Shock and aw the reason assimilate Picard and why attack the UFP fleet and show up every planet in the solar system. They used similar tactic on another alien race listen story he tell watch this video form 2 minute and 48 seconds to about 3 minute.