StarDestroyer.Net BBS

White Haven wrote:SWTOR and WoW say that no, the sub model isn't dead. It's just inferior for low-budget games.. Nobody's yet tried a real AAA-title on the F2P model yet, so there's no real way of telling how it'd work or not work. I'm quite curious to see how it ends up working once someone works up the guts to try...but it's not hard to see why people are reluctant to do so given the astronomical outlay of a content-heavy AAA title. Nobody wants to be first out the gate only to discover that no, it doesn't scale well enough.

Technically WoW is now F2P (limited to the "vanilla" content essentially from what I understand). It's just that nobody cares - I don't think WoW is getting much in the way of new players as opposed to returning previous players when they give out a major content update. And they're bleeding subscriptions like mad - over 1.5 million net subs lost in the first three quarters of 2011 as I recall, with the 4th quarter set to be announces in early Feb (likely a low loss or possibly even a small gain, as a major content patch occurred; the same happened in Q2, and they lost significantly fewer total subscriptions in that period than the other quarters). Granted, when you have 11 million subscribers, a loss of 1.5 million isn't going to destroy your business, but that's still over $22 million per month less revenue. Ouch.

The model nowadays seems to be "subscription-only at launch, keep it that way as long as you can, and convert to F2P when you've reached maximum market penetration for subscribers." When you start to get burned out on a long-time MMO (like WoW) and want to find something else, F2P games start to look good because of the low barrier to play. Paying $60 just to decide a game sucks in less than a month isn't particularly attractive. Off the top of my head Rift, SW:TOR and EVE are the only remaining MMOs that still use a subscription-only model, and SW is at least new enough that it's understandable. If EVE went F2P I'd sign back on in a heartbeat - that game would be significantly more fun if I could pay a little real cash for some "skill download" or something to lower the time-based barrier to PVP viability and not have to pay a monthly sub for a game I'd only play occasionally.

I still occasionally play Cryptic's other F2P game, Champions Online, so I'll probably at least download STO and check it out.

Can I make a Cardassian Starfleet officer, then GTA a Defiant Class ship and return to the Obsidian Order?

Havok wrote:Can I make a Cardassian Starfleet officer, then GTA a Defiant Class ship and return to the Obsidian Order?

Nope but you can make a starfleet officer that looks like a Cardassian and flies a Defiant in 2.5D space.

Anacronian wrote:

Havok wrote:Can I make a Cardassian Starfleet officer, then GTA a Defiant Class ship and return to the Obsidian Order?

Nope but you can make a starfleet officer that looks like a Cardassian and flies a Defiant in 2.5D space.

Well that's like asking for a triple fudge sundae with lots of toffee sauce and receiving a slightly stale fairy cake.
As for me, I'm on a data allowance of 1GB a month, so I won't be downloading the game (a 3GB file) until I hook up to a wifi hotspot.
Also, quick question; if I download the 3GB client, will it cost me 3GB of data each time I open it up? I have to be economical with my net usage which doth suck, but still...

Chimaera wrote:Also, quick question; if I download the 3GB client, will it cost me 3GB of data each time I open it up? I have to be economical with my net usage which doth suck, but still...

No, but games like this are frequently updated which will necessitate regular patching, often weekly. IIRC STO also uses a background data streaming system to trickle game data to clients as needed after the initial client install. So, in addition to the necessary data exchange between client and server throughout the course of play, you'll also be grabbing big chunks of the game in the background, likely well in excess of 3 GBs.

Rahvin wrote:Technically WoW is now F2P (limited to the "vanilla" content essentially from what I understand).

Not really. The trial account option has a lot of heavy restrictions on it. You can only get to level 20 (out of 85) you cannot use most chat channels, people must whisper you first for you to whisper them, you cannot use the auction house (I believe), and you can only earn a small amount of gold.

It's just that nobody cares - I don't think WoW is getting much in the way of new players as opposed to returning previous players when they give out a major content update. And they're bleeding subscriptions like mad - over 1.5 million net subs lost in the first three quarters of 2011 as I recall, with the 4th quarter set to be announces in early Feb (likely a low loss or possibly even a small gain, as a major content patch occurred; the same happened in Q2, and they lost significantly fewer total subscriptions in that period than the other quarters). Granted, when you have 11 million subscribers, a loss of 1.5 million isn't going to destroy your business, but that's still over $22 million per month less revenue. Ouch.

Not to hijack the thread into a wow-fest, but...

Frankly, WoW wouldn't have been hemorrhaging subs like we've seen if they hadn't botched Cataclysm's initial content so badly. Tier11 was a ballbuster of indroductory raiding, and many people who raided comparatively the simple content in Wrath and Burning Crusade dropped out. The Cataclysm heroic dungeons were utterly merciless as well, which aggravated the problem. As if that wasn't bad enough, Cata at launch didn't bring nearly as much level-cap content for single or casual players as Wrath or BC. Blizzard has spent the rest of the expansion in damage control mode, desperately trying to halt the bleeding caused by the T11/Cata drop content. If it hadn't been for that horrific misstep, we wouldn't have seen nearly the amount of drop-off that we did.

I actually overall liked the game back in open beta, but I've never subbed after that. I've downloaded the client again now and have played one or two hours, but somehow I can't get back in the spirit. I like the simplicity of the space combat for a change but everything ground based still feels so jerky and "cheap", for lack of a better word. But hey, it's free, so I'll keep playing on and off.

How about a SD.net guild? How are guilds even called in STO?

charlemagne wrote:How are guilds even called in STO?

Get a team of five people together and go to the Fleet Ambassador at ESD.

I'm sure there's one at Quo'nos for the Klingons, but who plays those losers, right guys?

charlemagne wrote:I actually overall liked the game back in open beta, but I've never subbed after that. I've downloaded the client again now and have played one or two hours, but somehow I can't get back in the spirit. I like the simplicity of the space combat for a change but everything ground based still feels so jerky and "cheap", for lack of a better word. But hey, it's free, so I'll keep playing on and off.

How about a SD.net guild? How are guilds even called in STO?

Protip: In ground combat, hit 'B'. (You might already know about shooter mode. But if you don't - OH MY GOD THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.)

Yeah, I discovered that in the tutorial, but since I'm not much of a shooter fan I don't even use it

I'm perfectly fine with "press button, wait for skill to execute", that's not why I don't really care for ground combat. What I dislike most are the jerky animations and overall not very impressive graphics. YMMV I guess.

Well, for those unfamiliar, shooter mode is not an FPS, not outright.

Basically it gives you a good sized targetting reticle, and as long as they're within that reticle you'll hit. You don't need to be dead on. Which is, IMO, an excellent way to do this for an MMO. Or maybe it's just because I suck hard at FPSes so any help I can get I'll take (within the rules of the game, not cheating of course).

It's probably just the equivalent of target selection for the regular MMO attacks, rather than a shooter with netcode managing projectiles etc. it wouldn't be a bad fit for a free ST MMO.

I loaded STO back up when I got the F2P e-mail. Thankfully, I could just log in with my Cryptic account and all my characters are still there. I logged in and the game still looks nice, but I didn't feel like dealing with the respec. Hopefully, I'll have time to play with it in the next few weeks if things slow down in SWTOR.

STO had issues when I left, but there were a few cools things:
1. STO has the best character creation/customization UI I have ever seen. The amount of aliens you can create is astounding. The only issue some might have is that they have to be Humanoid. I created a dead-ringer for Frakenberry (named Captain Berry, Frank N). I was also able to create a pretty convincing Marsala (from Exosquad). And I generally SUCK at doing stuff like this. Creating and saving custom uniforms (and Fleet/Guild uniforms) was also a plus.
2. Space combat is pretty (fancy effects, etc) and fun, if not exceedingly imbalanced in PvP when I quit. The ships look excellent and it's cool to see your ship on fire as your hull drops.
3. They had ironed out many of the bugs when I left.
4. Endgame gear didn't make you godly. You hit a bit harder and could last a bit longer, but guys in quest greens could wreck you.
On the flip side, the endgame content was non-existent and Klinks only had PvP to get them by. And the PvP in this game was pretty lame.

For free, the game is an excellent time-sink if you aren't looking for a grind at endgame.

Stark wrote:It's probably just the equivalent of target selection for the regular MMO attacks, rather than a shooter with netcode managing projectiles etc. it wouldn't be a bad fit for a free ST MMO.

OT: I know your avatar from somewhere. Is that the guy on the front of the "Street Samurai Catalog" Shadowrun Sourcebook?

Also, I'm glad to hear they made ground-combat fun. Is it still just engineers turret spamming and LOSing though?

Stark is exactly correct about shooter mode. Instead of using Tab or leftmouse to select a target and 1-0 to trigger abilities, you select a target by positioning your reticule over them, and use mouse buttons and 1-0 to trigger abilities. Tabula Rasa did something similar a number of years ago.

Having to respec all at once is a pain for returning characters, but the new skill system is a vast improvement.

Endgame space PVP is still not worthwhile on account of Cryptic liking to sell C-store ships that are better than game-attainable ships, no matchmaking system to speak of, and the usual benefits of time spent acquiring the best items and learning the best uses for them. From level 5 to 49 I enjoyed PVP and had a pretty high win-loss rate. At level 50, I have yet to be on the winning team for a single match, or to defeat another ship in single combat... even if I started at full health and they started near death.

Got an LTS in beta - spent the next two years regretting it as the game has simply languished in being a load of shit.

Cryptic have consistantly fucked up on a weekly basis by saying things only to contradict it later when it became financially convienient. When people rightly get pissed off at a developing trend Cryptic just keep doing and then silence people who point this out because they are being 'taken out of context'

Galaxy-X only available to people that refer 5 friends and get them to subscribe to the game
1 Month later
Item becomes available to everyone
Customer: What the fuck ?
Cryptic: Well, we only meant it would be exclusive for X amount of time
Customer: But you said it was exclusive only to that offer
Cryptic: That was then, this is now, do not quote me again or you will get an infraction

Cryptic have effectively done this on multiple counts regarding items that enter the game... all the while actual development when down the utter tubes with things being broken, poorly implemented and simply languishing in doing fuck all while people pay a monthly subscription to do... fuck all but buy shit vanity tribbles in their cash store.

For the past 12 months Cryptic have LITERALLY done fuck all development wise and admited to their customers they had a bad year... then they go and pull more of these stupid ass stunts by offering a Jem Hadar fighter reward from a christmas event... with gift boxes that could be bought at 100 CP a pop - Since you can only get 500 CP packages which costs $5 and the drop rate was horrendously low you had people dropping hundreds just to get a unique ship that came with 'powers' that could not be gotten elsewhere.
After a year spent waiting for Craptic to actually release content that is just sad and even worse when what little content was scheduled for last year was literally booted back to AFTER they went to the Free Play model so as to string people along and make it seem like things actually developed to anyone returning.

The game is visually impressive and that would appear to be Cryptics main point of success. Otherwise the game is just abysmal at marketing and overall content development. These guys cant even get 1 mission out per week to complete their episodic seasons which is effectively 12 missions. While they happily dish out cash store garbage and put anything new on the cash store to begin with. As a casual distraction STO will work but realistically your going to get boned simply due to the haves and have not factor of the cash store combined with little to no progress in content development.

Tried the game for about ten minutes; nothing special, fun or interesting, so deleted it.

The game gets way more fun when you move past the starter Miranda and can finally kitbash around with some "real" ships.

Indeed. Unleashing full phaser broadsides and letting off bona fide torpedo spreads from a Galaxy-class is a lot more satisfying than the noob-ship peashooting.

(on that note, did they ever improve the AoE torpedo spread power? As it was there was no reason to take it over the single-target salvo power)

Not that there aren't plenty of good reasons why one might want to avoid STO. Predator490 highlights a bunch of them. But playing an MMO - or almost any video game at all, for that matter - for less than an hour before making up your mind about it is just plain stupid. Furthermore, the first ten minutes are going to include STO's character creation, which is objectively special and interesting, whether one finds it fun or not.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Indeed. Unleashing full phaser broadsides and letting off bona fide torpedo spreads from a Galaxy-class is a lot more satisfying than the noob-ship peashooting.

(on that note, did they ever improve the AoE torpedo spread power? As it was there was no reason to take it over the single-target salvo power)

Well i wouldn't say they "Improved" Torpedo Spread but they did change it so now you torpedo every single enemy within range, It looks very very impressive..sadly it is also very very useless due to very low damage - Torpedo high yield is still the better option.

Torpedo Spread with Tricobalts is a goddamned force of nature, however, especially now that tricos retarget if their initial target is destroyed before they hit.

I still want to know if you can combine High Yield Torpedoes with Torpedo Spreads. I've been playing cruisers exclusively so I haven't had the second Tactical Officer position to try it out. That sounds excruciatingly delicious with tricobalts - I've seen my friend who's at 50 use them, so I have an idea of how nasty that could be.

You can't combine them. After triggering any Torpedo ability there is a 15 second cooldown before you can use any other Torpedo ability. Likewise for Beam abilities, Cannon abilities, Mine abilities, Department Team abilities, Emergency Power to X abilities, Attack Patterns, and so on.

Scottish Ninja wrote:I still want to know if you can combine High Yield Torpedoes with Torpedo Spreads. I've been playing cruisers exclusively so I haven't had the second Tactical Officer position to try it out. That sounds excruciatingly delicious with tricobalts - I've seen my friend who's at 50 use them, so I have an idea of how nasty that could be.

Don't get all to fascinated with the Trico's, They have the lowest DPS of all the torpedoes also they move slow and can be shoot down, In PVP tricobalts are completely useless unless you're lucky enough to fight somebody who have no idea what they're doing, In PVE there are some static unshielded structures where they are usefull but that is about it.

Bacically Photons or Quantums are always the better choice if not avilable go for Plasma or Transphasic(works best if you use two items from the breen set) your last choice should be Chroniton or Tricobalt.

Wait, there are actually people that play STO for the PvP? BWAAAAHAHAHAHA!