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aussiemuscle308 wrote:(since everything else can be replicated)

actually there's tons of stuff that cannot be replicated for one reason or another.

Still, it would make sense that on Starfleet starships that the crew wouldn't need to buy most of their stuff, as it would be rationed out.

Ooh I just remembered. Riker won a shit ton of Latinum at Quarks playing Dabo as did Bashir, not to mention both Bashir and Dax playing Tongo with Quark. If starfleet doesn't use money how did they cover their initial stakes?

Lord Revan wrote:

aussiemuscle308 wrote:(since everything else can be replicated)

actually there's tons of stuff that cannot be replicated for one reason or another.

Not really a 'ton', we're talking highly specialised items that more than likely need to be manufactured somewhere (the ones that come immediately to mind are things like antidotes to particular diseases) or are uniquely valuable (like latinum). Furthermore we know that replicators still need raw materials to work with.

A 'ton' is indeed something of an exagerration but there are naturally occuring substances that cannot be replicated. Nevermind the complaints about replicated food not quite being the same as the real thing, what about thurasian rain water?

Thurasian rainwater is the king of wank. Anyone who pays the stacked prices of freight, tax, and the actual profit margin is a sucker.

As for tax and trade tarriffs... They're known to exist in universe, and have of the work of the Federation Diplomatic Corps seems to be moderating trade negotiations. What does THAT tell you?

Thurasian rainwater sounds like the ultimate 'sell the sizzle, not the steak' product. Of course, Guinan didn't even say it couldn't be replicated either. But in any case, I mean holy shit people in the modern world buy bottled water which is no better than tap water. I can totally see a thing happen where replicators make almost everything, even exotic foods, commonplace - to the point where a 'natural' food item or drink has with it an added 'mystique'. Like how milk tastes better when you drink it from your Star Wars cup.

Also the taste of water is a product of minerals and chemicals within it. If Thurasian rain has, say, a yttrium-based organic chain that provides it with unique flavors, it would require that the replicator have yttrium in stock and be able to effectively synthesize the molecule. Since there are clear taste differences between replicated and "real" food, this may be why it's so difficult to replicate- all of its flavor is bound up in hard-to-replicate molecules that make the replicated water not quite the actual thing when ordered.

Isn't the explanation (I think I've even read it here somewhere) that replicated stuff is created from nano-goop? So thinks like tools and certain components and food can be created from the 'goop', but complex things can't, and food whilst tasting like the food it's mimicing lacks a certain taste to it.

Like the difference between 'Chicken-curry flavoured noodles' and 'Actual Chicken curry'?
Sure the noodles will fill a hole, but nothing beats having a real, proper meal.
....I wonder if Starfleet replicator-food keeps the Starfleeters clogged up somewhat, like MRE's so they don't have to crap so often (and thus be on the head when there's a red-alert).

In my prior post, I put forward a thesis on “economics” in the Federation that tried to explain the “we have no money” issue in the ST universe. In response to other posts, more thoughts.

Freighters, etc. I see no issue here. If they are Star Fleet or a government run “utility”, then the crew gets “credit” for manning them the same as anyone doing useful work to have status beyond the BLA. If they are “independent”, then they could “lease” or maybe be “assigned” the capital equipment by the government after the business plan was accepted. This would be the same as for all capital equipment any entrepreneur needs to go into business. Would this mean a highly regulated economy? Yes. But I’ve read may posts on various boards that the Federation is a bit of a “Nanny State”, so this also fits. I don’t think it would have to imply banking as such. More like applying for a research grant as a model. How the Federation “Department of Useful Activates Control” (DUAC, or if it quacks, it’s a DUAC….)

This leads me to a thought. Education. In the same way required in most countries today, a certain level of education, say mid-school equivalent, would be mandatory and give no credit. Beyond that, the student could get “credits” for attending additional school, with the amount of credit depending on the level, difficulty and results the student achieved. So it might be the inverse of education in the USofA today, with a “College” student graduating with a nest egg of credit, which could be used, if wished, to help start up an endeavor such as a business(or make your application more attractive to the DUACs). Subject of Federation approval, of course.

As far as Star Fleet crews using money, first AFAIK, no one in SF in Trek cannon has ever said, “What is this money thing you speak of?”. It has been suggested by other posters that the SF allots crew some external “hard currency” for dealing with other cultures. All in all, it seems to me that a good analogy would be the ruble under the USSR.

The Soviet ruble had an official exchange rate the government used for dealing with the outside world. But the free market value of the ruble was below this and the ruble was not very usable outside the USSR.

The Federation credit is not seen as used by outsiders often, if at all. Examples such as TNG “Encounter at Farpoint” were a SF character says to “put it on my account”, seem to occur in settings were the outside culture wants something, or has close ties with, the Federation. Ferengi want GPL (gold pressed latinum) or other items of real value in exchange.

My thoughts. Bounce yours off me. Wait, give me a second to DUAC.....

I seem to dimly recall passing mention being made once or twice to Sisko, as commander of the station, being Quark's landlord. Also that Quark pays for a certain level of draw from station power to run his holosuites, and didn't he program the replicators at one point to only create drinks inside singing advertisement mugs?

Crazedwraith wrote:

AMT wrote:The station was owned by Bajor, and Quark paid rent for his place as well.
Seems like the simplest solution is the correct one: Bajor used money.

I don't think he did. In Bar Association Sisko actually used the threat of charging him five years back-rent to get him fall in line and talk to Rom's Union.

See this means they did. Sisko ignored the previous rent payments to keep him on the station. If Bajor didn't have money then the threat of backrent is meaningless.

I hope this does not qualify as necromancy...

See this means they did. Sisko ignored the previous rent payments to keep him on the station. If Bajor didn't have money then the threat of backrent is meaningless.

Not quite. He could be referring to back rent from the Cardasian era. Something that he would probably have ignored until now for obvious reasons.

Purple wrote:I hope this does not qualify as necromancy...

See this means they did. Sisko ignored the previous rent payments to keep him on the station. If Bajor didn't have money then the threat of backrent is meaningless.

Not quite. He could be referring to back rent from the Cardasian era. Something that he would probably have ignored until now for obvious reasons.

Which would still be meaningless if the station was now running under Federation moneyless principles.

"Pay back rent"

"Ok what's the conversation rate on Cardassian Leks to... what does the Federation use?"

"....FFFFUUUUU-"

So logically speaking, there is some medium of exchange still being used on DS9 for any threat of rent to be meaningful.

AMT wrote:

Purple wrote:I hope this does not qualify as necromancy...

See this means they did. Sisko ignored the previous rent payments to keep him on the station. If Bajor didn't have money then the threat of backrent is meaningless.

Not quite. He could be referring to back rent from the Cardasian era. Something that he would probably have ignored until now for obvious reasons.

Which would still be meaningless if the station was now running under Federation moneyless principles.

"Pay back rent"

"Ok what's the conversation rate on Cardassian Leks to... what does the Federation use?"

"....FFFFUUUUU-"

So logically speaking, there is some medium of exchange still being used on DS9 for any threat of rent to be meaningful.

More likely something like this:
"Pay back rent"
"But how? You don't use money? How... well... how?"
"So you don't want to pay?"
"No, that's not!"
"OUT!!!"

While possible, I think the more probable situation is that some form of currency medium is still being used on DS9